SIL and money issues

[ChopinandChampagne]

I recently lost my DH and I thought that it would be nice to give some money to my DGDs, both toddlers, to set aside for their future as a gift from him. Realistically, they will not remember him, but I thought that if they have some money to spend on travel or driving lessons or to help with their university costs or whatever, they would think of him and know how much he loved them, even though he didn't live to see them grow up.

I did some internet research and the suggestions were for a Junior Isa, which a parent would need to set up, and I would then pay into, and the child could access at 18. Alternatively, a savings account, which I would be able to set up as a grandparent, as long as I produce a copy of the birth certificate, which the child can access and take over at 16.

So far, so good and, I thought, relatively uncontroversial, so I suggested it to my DD and said that I wanted to give each of the DGDs £10k from DH and the options. I said that I wanted it to be a separate account and that suggested that she open a Junior Isa or that I should open a savings account. Her response was that she would have to discuss it with SIL and I said fine, thought no more it. Then, I sense that there is a bit of tension and DD says she wants to set up a telephone call with both her and SIL one evening, to discuss the matter after the DGDs are in bed. This was a text, so I reply saying fine, is now a good time, but DD said not, but we could schedule a couple of days later, but only if she has completed her coursework for her studies.

Then, a couple of days ago, I receive an email from SIL, from whom I never hear anything direct, advising me that if I really want to put money in an account, he will open one, but that he thinks that it is a bad idea, as inflation will erode the money. He thinks I should invest it in gold bullion or some other specific account (he says he has recently opened one for DD), and he provided links to various websites.

The tone of the email comes across, not as friendly advice, but telling me what to do. I have said that I will have a rethink, but I am worried about offending him if I don't follow his advice. I feel that he is trying to control how I invest the money. He refers to it as my wanting to invest for the DGD's future, which it is partly, but it is also about wanting the DGDs to remember or be reminded of DH. I don't really want to invest in bullion, as I think it's a bit volatile, and the idea of a bank account is that the DGDs would get the bank statements and maybe learn how to save.

Does anyone have any advice on how best to handle this diplomatically? There is quite a bit of history with SIL (Lobster Boy for those who remember my previous threads), but things are on a reasonably even keel at present and I currently have a good relationship with DD, which I don't want to upset. She says that there is no rush to decide how best to invest the money, it is important to get it right.

I think this man wants to access it himself! Sounds like a bit of a controlling bully! I would leave them the money via your will, or set up a trust fund via your solicitor.

Thank you everyone for your further advice. I think I will talk to my BIL, who is very financially astute (accountant, worked in the City for a while) about potential investments for the DGDs. He and my SIL (sister in law as opposed to LB) have been absolutely wonderful and so supportive.

BIL and his wife are godparents to DD2 and bought her a cask of whisky for her baptism (plus a teddy bear!), which increased a lot in value and which DD had when she was 21. So I might do something similar and will ask his advice about how to go about it.

However, the last thing I want is to become estranged from DD and the DGDs and I am sure that she doesn't want it either, so I need to be cautious. DD knows that I am still deep in grief, so making these decisions is difficult for me anyway. When I sent the offer to give money to the DGDs, I also said that they did not need to pay back the £10k which they asked me to lend them to buy a second property to let out. I mentioned it in the previous thread. I knew I wouldn't get it back anyway. They were meant to be paying it back when they could afford to and recently made a lot more than that from breeding from one of their dogs, but they didn't offer to pay me back. Anyway, I said that they could keep it as a belated wedding gift to both of them, and there hasn't been any acknowledgement or thanks, which I am a bit disappointed about.

It has been a difficult few months, as I lost my lovely dog, whom I had for nearly 14 years, a couple of weeks after DH, also to cancer. Then a few weeks ago, we lost DH's aunt whom I was very close to, almost like a second mother after we lost our mothers on the same day, and I gave a eulogy at her funeral last week. I will miss her terribly, but she had an interesting and fulfilling life. She was in a care home and she was mentally and physically incapacitated at the end, so it was her time to go and she is at peace now, probably having a party with DH. I like to think so!

Anyway, she had no children and my DH and BIL and SIL were her heirs, with DH's share going to our DDs if he died first. She was a wartime child evacuee and lived very frugally, but had a house in London which has increased massively in value, so all of the DD will shortly inherit about £100k. No question but that it is their money to do as they wish, and I will not be foolish enough to give any advice whatsoever, but I know that LB will just take it over and I must just watch him do it and keep my mouth shut. But it irks me that this man, who at almost 30 has never had a proper job, despite being highly qualified, talks about his investments and feels that he can tell me what to do with my money. On the plus side, perhaps he will lose interest in the arrangements for the DGDs when he has bigger fish to fry.

Sorry, rant over!

Lobster Boy! Truly the worst of men ever spoken about on Mumsnet.
I'm sorry about your husband. I have a marriage like the one you describe and I'll be for ever thankful. It's a real gift.

We all know that WHATEVER you'd proposed to do with the money, you would have been wrong. Remember Lobster Boy thinks he knows better than you about everything. About your daughter, about you yourself, about money... Everything. There is no suggestion you could have made that would have met with his approval because he is always right and you are always wrong.
So with that in mind, do whatever it is you want to do. You want to pass a gift from DH to the children, that is your guiding force. So what if it doesn't accrue quite as much interest as it could, that's not the point. You want a safe, easy way of making a gift in DH's name. So do that in whatever way you think best, knowing in advance that whatever your choice you will be wrong for LB.

Son sells 28 years of birthday whisky to buy first home www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-54040307

That’s not a bad idea.

I just wanted to add @ the love that shines from your posts when you talk of DH has always touched me, I’m so pleased that he was able to reconcile and had a peaceful few months with you at the end.

I think you had written off the £10k ages ago, but it doesn’t surprise me that it wasn’t acknowledged.

I also seem to remember that all property was in his name despite you providing much of the deposit? Is there anyone that could persuade dd to keep the upcoming inheritance separate from the marital assets, although I agree you are best not offering any advice whatsoever.

Sorry for your loss OP

You are incredibly kind, it is a wonderful thing to do for your DGD in memory of your husband.

Absolutely do not do as SIL says. It sounds like he wants access to the money.
I would say as PP said. Say your DH was never a fan of gold, and that the money will be going into a trust in their names.

How awfully rude and ungrateful they sound.

I don't think I ever read about this peach of a man before. Clearly I missed an interesting thread.

I'm so sorry for all your losses, OP. What a difficult time you've been through.
I do understand why you feel the need to tread carefully. I know one of the worst things that could happen to me, would be for my daughters to be estranged - from me or from each other. And I'd feel desperate about that for my late husband's memory. He adored them and family life was everything to him. So the last thing I'd want to ever do is anything that risked that.

It sounds as though your daughter has made great steps in being part of your family again, and if anything is going to make her see what he's doing, it will be the gentle and loving support of her family.

So yes, I would step back for now, and do your own research. Clearly they're not going to be short of money in the short term. If you want them to have this gift from your DH in young adulthood, you have plenty of time.

So sorry to hear about the death of your husband.
I remember you too, and you seem a lovely person but I think you should stop bringing money into this relationship.
Money has caused lots of problems in this relationship (through no fault of yours) so I am surprised you'd bring in another financial element.

I'm sorry to hear that your nice gesture has turned into such a negative experience for you.

I used to work in investment banking and I'd add my vote for a Junior Stocks and Shares ISA. That gives you an unlimited set of funds to choose from, our ISAs have historically made 20-30% per annum (even in 2000) though they can go down obviously and there's a trade off with the risk you're willing to accept.

You could even put part of the money in a gold fund although I'd say there are better short term options with gold at a record high. One of my Asia funds increased by nearly 80% last year. Equally, some of the UK funds are still 5-10% below their value this time last year. Now my kids are older, we look at the funds research together and they enjoy picking their funds (and crowing if one beats the other...).

I would have to check but I think only parents are allowed to set up a Junior ISA though, once it's been set up, grandparents can contribute to it (if there's sufficient allowance for the year left).

I have to confess that, for the reason of low interest rates, I was a bit unconvinced when my parents bought £100 of premium bonds for my kids one year. I then had to eat my scepticism when one son won £10,000.

I hope you find a solution that brings you the joy of having given your grandchildren such a generous gift in memory of your husband.

Sorry, that was meant to say even in 2020, not 2000!

I remember your threads OP! I am so so sorry about your husband! I often think of you and wondered how you were doing.

I would not communicate with them at all. Don’t worry what he thinks if you either, he won’t extend the same courtesy to you. Say Covid eroded your finances more than you though it would or a similar plausible excuse. Just invest the money somewhere and give it to them when they’re 18 or 21 or graduated it whatever. They might need escape fund anyway at some point...

OP, I'm so sorry you are going through this. What a difficult situation. There's a temptation to want to sort things out when you lose a partner but all the advice we had when my mum died was to convince my dad NOT to rush into anything. So you could buy some time and distance but simply saying that there are now too many options, you feel overwhelmed and you absolutely ARE going to do something, but in a few months when you feel stronger and things have been sorted out with your Aunt-in-law's passing too.

He's not wrong that a straight savings account is unlikely to be a good idea. but the bullion suggestion is so classic. I'm sort of surprised he's not telling you to invest in crypto. The point is that you want something stable and reliable and consistent. Seek independent financial advice, who can also advise on the legal implications, and take it from there. Good luck.

I know how frustrating it is to watch a family member in an abusive relationship so you have all of my sympathy and good thoughts.

It baffles me how many people offer to give money etc to children/grandchildren/other relatives for no other reason than being kind/thoughtful/considerate and there is always someone in the family sticking their nose in being rude and pretty much ungrateful

I say this carefully, OP, but watch yourself with your DD.

Don't let your DH's wish dominate to the extent you make yourself vulnerable. More than harmony, he'd want you to be able to look after yourself and prioritise yourself in the way you need to do right now.

She is not your friend.

Nice to see all the platitudes now - that she obviously would have wanted him at her wedding - when it's too late.

Yes, she is in an abusive relationship. That may be the reason, but it doesn't change the fact that you need to still be wary of her and letting her 'in'. He directs her. More than that, he has changed her. There was nothing stopping her thanking you for your writing off the loan, was there?

I would take some time to think, now, if I were you, about where you would like this to go, and more than that - where you would like this to not go. Make no mistake, your DH's passing will have changed the dynamic for LB. He will be feeling more in charge. He's a nasty little misogynist, among other things, remember - so you now, a widow, will be seen as much, much less of a threat and more able to be dominated than a 'pair' of adults of the generation above. So he will be feeling bolder at elbowing his way 'into' your side of things - your family and the elements that were closed to him and DD.

Secondly, for that same reason I think you need fear a second estrangement far less. I don't think they'll withdraw again. That boil has been lanced, contact has been made - and LB has seen that you pose little real threat, and less again without your DH. He'll want to stay in touch with one eye on your will, far more than he'll want to make a stroppy point by punishing with no contact if you push back.

Which means that with situations like this, you can push back and you should. Obliquely, of course. Hide behind your bereavement. Be opaque with your DD and non-committal, whenever something comes up and he tries to push himself in. Your DD will be aware that she's pushed you to the limit and has lost the true regard of her sisters, so she won't want to push too hard either.

The reason you should push back where you can is this. You won't achieve even a vaguely harmonious outcome any other way - for you, but also for your other DDs. If you want things to work at all, you are going to have to keep LB and your DD at a certain arms' length, always, because if you relax too much, try and swallow it down and treat them all as 'family' in order to keep the peace, it's only a matter of time before this utterly unpleasant man and his toxicity will start to touch your other DDs, and there will be a massive, massive blow out. They won't tolerate him. Because they presumably won't be prepared to give their sister one inch at their own expense, she's taken enough already.

Your DH's wish was a simple one, but I think it is going to take the most complex, cynical, and ongoing gameplay to make it happen.

You can open a junior stocks and shares ISA which would offset inflation. As someone with investments precious metals makes up about 10pc of my portfolio. 100pc in precious metals is stupid.

Personally I wouldn't want the son in law having control over the money. Yes it might not be worth as much in years to come but I would be concerned the GC would be left with nothing otherwise.

LobsterBoy? No way. She married him and had kids with him?!

My gut feeling is to retract the offer but don't tell bossy SIL tbh. You save the money for the grandchildren and give it to them as adults.

Sorry you lost your dh .

Lobster boy ! Jeez how is he still around ? Talking nonsense as ever - sorry for you loss 🙏

I am so sorry for your loss, Op.

I remember your threads about LobsterBoy, it struck with me because my dd was in an abusive relationship at the time as well. She got away from it.

There's been some fantastic advice on this thread, hope it has been useful.

I'm so sorry for your losses. I remember Lobster Boy. I'm sorry but you would be a fool to give any money for DGDs to LB or DD1.

Take legal/financial advice, you could set up a trust fund that they will have access to at 18/21/25 what ever you see fit. DD2 & 3 could be the trustees.

I have no ideas about the money beyond what everyone else has suggested (but make sure he definitely can't get his hands on it) although my DH has talked me into buying gold so it's probably not an entirely crazy idea. However, I am posting to say that I have thought of you many, many times over the last year and and am so sorry to hear about your DH.

TBH I would be suspiciois of his motives woth the sort of investments he suggests. Put it into some sort of accounts or trust fund of your choosing and make sure that SIL cant get his hands on the money.

Big hugs from me, I was on LB threads, I have wondered how things were

I would actually look into setting up a trust fund from your DH that is set aside for all current and future DC. Nearly side stepping LB!!!

It means the DGD can come to you at 18/21 and you can then make a decision on how much to give them based on how many DGD there are by then and how much the investment has grown by.

I would frame it to SIL as - such a good idea I'm deciding what to invest in on their behalf along with some money for future DGD all in one, won't be rushing in to anything. So basically if he asks about it in the future you can just says it's all sorted such a good idea of yours for me to do that.

Remind your SIL that gold prices can go down. Has he not studied a multi-year chart of the price of gold? Gold is practically at an all time high at the moment - remind him one should ''buy low and sell high'' not vice versa. Tell him you'll consult a financial adviser (even if you don't). Most people take Junior ISA because they are tax free for any profit made over the years - whereas with gold any rise by the time it is sold will be liable for tax. That is the main advantage with ISAs - no tax. The children's mother can open one without him and you put the money into them directly so it does not concern him at all.

Condolences on your sad loss. Sorry I see the DGC already have ISAs.

I’m so sorry to hear that you lost your husband and your dog. I remember your earlier post and used to fume about lobster boy as I couldn’t believe anybody could be so dreadful about you and your lovely husband. It’s lovely that you have your DD and DGD’s in your life and must be so hard for you to stand back. Your gesture for your DGD’s is wonderful and they will appreciate it so much. My lovely MIL did a similar thing for our DD but we agreed between us DH and I would look after it for her. She is now 28 and waiting to buy her first house and very appreciative of the gift as MIL passed away 9 years ago but she is fondly remembered. Do whatever you and your DH would have done and fob him off.