SIL and money issues

[ChopinandChampagne]

I recently lost my DH and I thought that it would be nice to give some money to my DGDs, both toddlers, to set aside for their future as a gift from him. Realistically, they will not remember him, but I thought that if they have some money to spend on travel or driving lessons or to help with their university costs or whatever, they would think of him and know how much he loved them, even though he didn't live to see them grow up.

I did some internet research and the suggestions were for a Junior Isa, which a parent would need to set up, and I would then pay into, and the child could access at 18. Alternatively, a savings account, which I would be able to set up as a grandparent, as long as I produce a copy of the birth certificate, which the child can access and take over at 16.

So far, so good and, I thought, relatively uncontroversial, so I suggested it to my DD and said that I wanted to give each of the DGDs £10k from DH and the options. I said that I wanted it to be a separate account and that suggested that she open a Junior Isa or that I should open a savings account. Her response was that she would have to discuss it with SIL and I said fine, thought no more it. Then, I sense that there is a bit of tension and DD says she wants to set up a telephone call with both her and SIL one evening, to discuss the matter after the DGDs are in bed. This was a text, so I reply saying fine, is now a good time, but DD said not, but we could schedule a couple of days later, but only if she has completed her coursework for her studies.

Then, a couple of days ago, I receive an email from SIL, from whom I never hear anything direct, advising me that if I really want to put money in an account, he will open one, but that he thinks that it is a bad idea, as inflation will erode the money. He thinks I should invest it in gold bullion or some other specific account (he says he has recently opened one for DD), and he provided links to various websites.

The tone of the email comes across, not as friendly advice, but telling me what to do. I have said that I will have a rethink, but I am worried about offending him if I don't follow his advice. I feel that he is trying to control how I invest the money. He refers to it as my wanting to invest for the DGD's future, which it is partly, but it is also about wanting the DGDs to remember or be reminded of DH. I don't really want to invest in bullion, as I think it's a bit volatile, and the idea of a bank account is that the DGDs would get the bank statements and maybe learn how to save.

Does anyone have any advice on how best to handle this diplomatically? There is quite a bit of history with SIL (Lobster Boy for those who remember my previous threads), but things are on a reasonably even keel at present and I currently have a good relationship with DD, which I don't want to upset. She says that there is no rush to decide how best to invest the money, it is important to get it right.

Thank you for all of your replies and I apologise for the delay in replying, but I have been feeling quite ill over the last few days. It's not Covid, but more flu like symptoms, so I have mainly been in bed, with little energy to do anything.

I am very grateful for all of the wise advice and support, which I have received from the wonderful posters. I am sorry if I sometimes seem a bit weak or passive. In truth, I don't have the strength to be angry at present and any confrontation will just affect me badly.

It was useful to meet DD1, which convinced me, if I ever needed to be convinced, that everything will always be on LB's terms, whilst she is with him. So there is no point in expecting too much or it's a recipe for disappointment. It is what it is, but I feel the loss more keenly because of losing DH.

Regarding the signature, I just sent a message saying that it should be signed by someone independent of the family, ie not a relation. In fact, it was just to sign to witness their signature, so I don't know why they couldn't just ask a neighbour, probably because they don't speak to any of them!

She also sent me an anti vaccine video/ piece of propaganda. I am not sure why, as she knows I have already been vaccinated 🤣.

I hope you feel better soon

Take your time getting better as it will have taken it out of you x

You don't have to have a confrontation though, just quietly and gradually withdraw. That also leaves the door open should your DD1 come to her senses about her situation.

Sorry to hear you are unwell @ChopinandChampagne
Hope you feel better soon.

Good advice from Pemba.

@Pemba

You don't have to have a confrontation though, just quietly and gradually withdraw. That also leaves the door open should your DD1 come to her senses about her situation.

Agree with this.

You are also not weak.

You are exhausted trying to work your way to an impossible solution with irrational mentally dysfunctional people who are always seconds away from punishing you.

It’s not just futile - it will hurt you and your relationships and progress through this next chapter of your life. You don’t have to be emotionally tied to the rollercoaster of their harebrained schemes, abuse and constant threat. Try to indifferent and detach. Accept and adapt to the reality.

I think you are satisfied that you know the severe limitations of any potential relationship you can have with your DD1 right now.

BUT more importantly - this v limited relationship takes a heavy toll on you emotionally and physically and it’s important not to let it derail or distress you any further by withdrawing so that you can concentrate on the relationships in your life that are mutually rewarding.

I would put some boundaries down - if you don’t want anti-vax materials tell her that you haven’t the head space for anything political because you are grieving.

I hope that you can rest up so that you can cope with the last quarter of your first year of bereavement. Take care of yourself.

They have their money. Unless they want more, they will withdraw.

@ChopinandChampagne hope you feel better soon

I'm sorry you have been unwell and trust you are resting and recovering. 💐

Hope you are feeling better Chopin. The exhaustion caused by stressful situations can really take it's toll on physical health so hope you are looking after yourself.

It's so sad that your DD1's life has become so insular that she has no-one to ask to witness a signature, other than a parent who she has previously cut off and who lives miles away. I cannot believe the cheek of them asking to forge your signature.

She seems to easily get drawn deeply into different anti-establishment lifestyle choices and I guess the reason she sends you anti vax propaganda is due to some kind of need to validate the decisions that she has made. I don't know much about psychology, but I'd guess the personality types of DD1 and LB are typical of those people who get drawn towards conspiracy theories and enjoy an "us & them" mentality.

I hope you can withdraw from them as much as possible. The Ireland plan is destined for disaster and if you are in any way involved then you will shoulder the blame when it goes wrong. It sounds like the relationship with LB's parents has turned sour. This will remove some of the support that your DD1 had, but probably the quickest way for the scales to fall from your DD1's eyes will be when she only has LB to rely on and finds him lacking. I can imagine that it might not take long if she is living an ultra frugal lifestyle in run down house in a different country with 3 children and livestock to look after.

Wishing you all the best.

BUT more importantly - this v limited relationship takes a heavy toll on you emotionally and physically and it’s important not to let it derail or distress you any further by withdrawing so that you can concentrate on the relationships in your life that are mutually rewarding.

So, so important.

I would put some boundaries down - if you don’t want anti-vax materials tell her that you haven’t the head space for anything political because you are grieving.

+1. If she sends anything like that, message back that you do not want to receive it, so please stop sending it. They have whatever beliefs they have, but that does not give them the right to stomp on yours.

You are still tiptoeing around her, and it's understandable, but you need to step back, and start nourishing yourself and the many good people in your life.

I hope that you feel better soon.

I agree that you need to push back a little, gently over the anti-van stuff, and detach yourself a bit

Thank you everyone. I am feeling much better, but not yet 100%.

I had a good session with my therapist yesterday, who though that the strain and stress of the trip to see DD1 may have made me vulnerable to infection, as the bugs strike when your defences are down . I think she may have a point though. I felt I had to go, but it was a mountain to climb (one of Sssloou's phrases); I wanted to go, yet I was dreading it; above all, I wanted it to have gone well, but to be over, so that I could return to the sanctuary of home. And that has, in large part, been achieved, but I think it has taken a lot out of me. I have felt really exhausted since I got back.

The messages from DD1 have been fewer. She said that they are looking to buy a crew van, but they are expensive. I didn't take it as a hint to offer to buy one, but simply responded that I hoped they would find something suitable, followed by bland comments about what I had been doing (not much), eating (not much) etc.

Having spent the best part of a week in bed, I have had time to reflect upon and process events. Although the visit was superficially successful, there were clearly undercurrents, possible even an agenda. DD1 doesn't set the agenda, but she goes along with it, and I don't see that changing for the foreseeable future, unfortunately.

I agree totally with Bluebell's analysis of the situation. DD1 is wholly influenced by LB and perhaps, at some level, she does seek validation or reassurance. They certainly do have an 'us and them' mentality, fostered by LB. I believe he is genuinely paranoid - hence the belief in conspiracy theories and the need to keep the birth of DGD1 secret, in case I might try to take her, if anything were to happen to DD1. Looking back, all of this makes me realise more than ever, how difficult it will be to have a normal relationship with the DGC (even if they lived closer). Something spontaneous and natural and normal, such as my reading to the DGDs and them cuddling up to me and clearly liking me, would not please LB, but actively displease him. He wants me to form a bond to reel me in, but he doesn't want it to be reciprocal. There are always going to be eggshells in abundance.

I think that the relationship with LB's parents has soured, which I am sorry about to the extent that it means that DD1 will have less support. But perhaps this move will, at some stage, help the scales fall from DD1's eyes, as Bluebell suggests.

I think I needed to go on the visit to literally see how the land lies and, having gone, I see that nothing has really changed. Physically and mentally, I realise that I have to stand back, which I am now doing. These same old patterns of behaviour will otherwise just keep on repeating. Realism is the cold dish of the day.

Wow you have made progress, you've got this!

It's ok that the reality is sad it is what it is

So glad you feeling better. Run down physically is probably a result of run down mentally ( if you get the mind body connection)
Acceptance is healthy though. I realise people on here may have seen like they were giving you tough love and telling you to step back, but its like someone nagging you to stop smoking/lose weight etc. You have to be ready and WANT to do it.
You sound like you are coming to this conclusion on your own, which although sad will keep you mentally and physically well going forward.
We can love people from afar, give them compassion, and treat them with respect without getting enmeshed in their dramas of their own making. While still greiving it too.
You got one life OP and you been through such a hard time, so enjoy your life and fill it with peace and people that care. We are all with you in this, feel how hard it is and admire your unconditional love for your DD1, but are rooting for you to be happy now. X

Thanks Random and Minty. I have definitely moved on and shed a skin during the last week, which gave me time to 'process' things.

I think one of the deciding factors was when, in relation to DD1 effectively saying that LB still had a problem with me and didn't want to see me very often, I said something along the lines of we need to move on etc, assured her I didn't hate LB, which he believes I do etc. Said I don't hate anyone etc. Having lost Dad/DH, I don't want to waste time on past hurts and regrets, we need to move forward etc. That's when I said I was happy to have a chat with LB and DD1 said it wouldn't/couldn't be just a half hour chat. (sorry about all the etcs )

DD then suggested that if I spoke to or wrote to LB (I had suggested that I might send him a nice card saying that I had enjoyed the day together, happy all moving forward etc), I might mention how DH's death changed things. I was rather repulsed by this at the time, I'm not sure why, but maybe because I feel that LB might have an ounce of compassion for me, having lost DH. Or an ounce of remorse for having deprived DH of being with his DD1 on her marriage day (especially as it turns out that he won't have the opportunity to be at DD2 and DD3's marriages, should there be any, or for them to have the opportunity to have him there), or that he deprived DH of the first 14 months of DGD1's life. On the contrary, he couldn't wait to get his hands on the inheritance through DH and his aunt and it makes not a jot of difference.

DD1 made it clear that she wants a normal relationship with me, that she loves me, but that it is up to me to appease LB. It was apparent to me that this is what she has learned/been trained to do. She appeases LB, hence the anxious watching for the taxi, whilst I read to the DGDs and LB was sulking in his workshop. And she wants me to do the same. And if I were to do this, I would be affirming her approach, saying that it is right to appease LB. And she wanted me to use DH's death as part of the appeasement process......

No, no, no - I can't do that. I can be reasonable, I can negotiate, I can compromise, seek family harmony, but not what DD1 was asking. And to make DH's death part of the petition for mercy is just so repugnant, I can't do it. And I was so, so upset, that DD1 even thinks in that way, which is about as far away as I think and her sisters think as it is possible to be. It honestly broke my heart.

But, in a funny sort of way, at least I have stopped blaming myself a little, to the extent that I now believe that my original instincts were right, that LB is controlling. He has set himself to criticise and destroy everything which DD1 held dear, her family, her friends, her values and beliefs, everything. And, whatever I had said or done, it wouldn't have had a different outcome. LB has no respect for anyone or anything. I know now that there is nothing that I can do to change this, much as I wish that I could.

Wow you really have seen through the bullshit!!!

Don't be afraid to say that appeasing other people isn't something you do if there is ever an appropriate moment. DD1 may not even recognise she is appeasing him...

Wow you have not only seen the light you are feeling it …. And feeling and honouring YOUR feelings. LB is trying to tie and trap you in his emotional web of knots around your lovely late husband. I am glad that you heard your disgust alarm ringing in your gut.

The creepy power play of him wanting to get into a long correspondence of letters just to twist and punish yoib

That is really sick and twisted of LB. And how DD1 could even dare to say that to you about your DH!

It probably has to do with his views of women being inferior and needing a man to rely on. (I'm not sure if you have expressly said this about LB but his type always think this. They're threatened by a strong woman.) I wonder if the change LB was referring to was that now DH is gone HE (LB) should be the head of the family? Because the rest of you are helpless women?

Oh he makes me so angry and I don't even know him! How can you bear dealing with him? In future, be civil but stop playing nice with him. It will only end in more hurt for you.

It sounds like some progress has been made. Your passivity before seemed like it might be at least partially borne of exhaustion.

Sorry that you've been poorly Chopin but it sounds like you're on the mend now and the period of reflection has truly done you good. Sending you anti-vax material when you're already vaccinated is truly odd, and I assume more about justifying why they aren't getting vaccinated. (And perhaps to remind you of the urgency of them getting into Ireland before apparently the border is permanently closed to the unvaccinated, whatever that all means).

It's hard to know what DD was thinking when she suggested you could (sorry for putting it this way) play the bereavement card when you wrote to LB. As he no compassion for anyone at all (except himself), I don't see how it would worked even if you had for some reason wanted to follow her callous advice. I would send him the card only because if you don't, it will be used against you in the future. But the content should be on your terms. Bland, neutral and in no way the act of appeasement he wants. If they decide to cut you off for not following your instructions - well, it saves you from at least some of the emotional blackmail and extortion that is coming in the next months.

Time to detach from them as far as you can, and focus on the many things in your life which bring you joy and fulfillment.

I have been wondering if your illness was also related to a post-visit depression while reality sank in. How utterly heartbroken you must be. I feel like up until now you have been reeled in like a teenager with a “bad boy” boyfriend who treats her terribly but keeps her dangling, waiting breathlessly for the next phonecall, but secretly wondering if it will be exhilarating or abusive. I can’t see things changing while they are together.
I am horrified that your DD1 wanted you to use your feelings about the loss of your wonderful DH to cajole her DH. There are lots of reasons why… Reliving it and feeling that loss again and again is cruel. They clearly don’t feel his loss like you do. It wouldn’t have worked, as he lacks empathy. If he did have empathy, none of this would need to be suggested. (None of this would have happened.) It would give him more ammunition to work with - and know HOW to manipulate you further. No. You are quite right to step away and pull back completely. While I believe he is the instigator, you need to accept your DD1 has made the choice to perpetuate this and stop making excuses for her too. You can love her, and accept her as a weak, easily manipulated, damaged person. Just don’t trust that she has your best interests at heart. I don’t think she does.

You can not appease someone who doesn’t want to be appeased

Dd has got used to trying to minimise the drama that he creates, he thrives on it. She wants you in her life so wants you to play the game. Keeping on doing what you’ve been doing so she can see her life is not normal is the only way that one day the scales will fall.

Sending hugs chopin

It’s time to step back- focus on the dds you have without the idiot with LB.

Dd1 and her idiot h have done enough and demanded too much and it’s wasted time you could have spent happily with literally anyone else.

Take time for you, don’t give them any money, set something up for your dgc
Alone.

You can’t change him, her or anything else

So focus on those things that bring you peace and contentment

Wow you kept me up last night reading all this. It's very sad, she is very stuck where she is. I'd normally say walk away but then she would be very alone. Just don't give them any money whatever you do. LB is only keeping you around for that.