SIL and money issues

[ChopinandChampagne]

I recently lost my DH and I thought that it would be nice to give some money to my DGDs, both toddlers, to set aside for their future as a gift from him. Realistically, they will not remember him, but I thought that if they have some money to spend on travel or driving lessons or to help with their university costs or whatever, they would think of him and know how much he loved them, even though he didn't live to see them grow up.

I did some internet research and the suggestions were for a Junior Isa, which a parent would need to set up, and I would then pay into, and the child could access at 18. Alternatively, a savings account, which I would be able to set up as a grandparent, as long as I produce a copy of the birth certificate, which the child can access and take over at 16.

So far, so good and, I thought, relatively uncontroversial, so I suggested it to my DD and said that I wanted to give each of the DGDs £10k from DH and the options. I said that I wanted it to be a separate account and that suggested that she open a Junior Isa or that I should open a savings account. Her response was that she would have to discuss it with SIL and I said fine, thought no more it. Then, I sense that there is a bit of tension and DD says she wants to set up a telephone call with both her and SIL one evening, to discuss the matter after the DGDs are in bed. This was a text, so I reply saying fine, is now a good time, but DD said not, but we could schedule a couple of days later, but only if she has completed her coursework for her studies.

Then, a couple of days ago, I receive an email from SIL, from whom I never hear anything direct, advising me that if I really want to put money in an account, he will open one, but that he thinks that it is a bad idea, as inflation will erode the money. He thinks I should invest it in gold bullion or some other specific account (he says he has recently opened one for DD), and he provided links to various websites.

The tone of the email comes across, not as friendly advice, but telling me what to do. I have said that I will have a rethink, but I am worried about offending him if I don't follow his advice. I feel that he is trying to control how I invest the money. He refers to it as my wanting to invest for the DGD's future, which it is partly, but it is also about wanting the DGDs to remember or be reminded of DH. I don't really want to invest in bullion, as I think it's a bit volatile, and the idea of a bank account is that the DGDs would get the bank statements and maybe learn how to save.

Does anyone have any advice on how best to handle this diplomatically? There is quite a bit of history with SIL (Lobster Boy for those who remember my previous threads), but things are on a reasonably even keel at present and I currently have a good relationship with DD, which I don't want to upset. She says that there is no rush to decide how best to invest the money, it is important to get it right.

Premium Bonds. My DD and DS were left some money from FIL and that's what I did, It was all done on the internet. They have won about 4 times over the last year, it can be reinvested in that case.

Sorry to hear about your DH.

Think of investing some of it in a pension for them. Lobster boy will be long gone by the time the kids are old enough to benefit from it. It will have decades to grow and they will be extremely glad to have it.

Without knowing the back story and only having read your opening thread, I agree with your SIL about gold keeping its value while other currencies will probably lose a lot of value.

Most governments have been borrowing extensively to cover the costs of covid and this will be reflected in more money being printed and a lower purchasing power.

I remember your previous threads, I’m so sorry for you and your DDs at the loss of your husband. 💐

It really sounds as if LB is up to his old tricks regarding money. I’d either say you are going to discuss with your financial adviser and/or just sit on the money for now and not mention it again for a while.

I’m sure you don’t need any potential antagonism at the current time.

Thank you so much for all of your replies and also for your condolences from those who were on my last thread.

By way of update, I lost DH nearly three months ago. The chemotherapy held the cancer at bay for six months, so we had the summer, although we couldn't do much, because of lockdown and as we were shielding him. Still, we were together and had lots of time to say all that we wanted, not that we needed to, as we loved each other so much - we fell in love on our first date, were engaged on our third, and loved each other from the first day to the last day, and all the days in between, for 34 years. I miss him terribly, but am grateful to have had him in my life, I was very lucky. In the end, he deteriorated very quickly, and died at home, surrounded by me, DD2 and DD3. His last day was very peaceful and, make of it what you will, but we all believe that we have received signs from him, which comfort us.

DD1 also did what she could in terms of visiting and it was fortunate that she was in the south, doing her course, which made it easier. She also read at the funeral and there has been a sort of reconciliation with her sisters, or at least with DD2, although it will never be what it was, as the trust has gone. Still, they were able to be together when DH was dying and all stood round him a few days before he died, together with the DGDs. He loved them so much and sometimes I still feel so angry that DD1 did not tell us about DGD1's birth for 14 months, as well as her marriage, which deprived DH of joy which he could have had. But, being DH, he never bore a grudge or thought ill of people and all was forgiven and forgotten when he died. He was so anxious for everyone to be reconciled, it was his dying wish, which was granted, and so I am very wary of doing or saying anything which could lead to another estrangement.

To be fair, DD1 has been very loving and I know that she misses DH so much. She must feel bad at the time which she missed with him, but of course she didn't know that he was going to die. She messages every day, often with photos and videos of the DGDs, and calls regularly. She sent me a big slab of her home made Christmas cake and, when I said how much I enjoyed it, she said that it gave her joy to eat it but more joy that I enjoyed it. She also sent a home made Christmas card and a thoughtful gift (the first one in several years) and keeps asking how I am and says that she thinks of me a lot. She also mentions a lot of family occasions, seemingly fondly. She said that she was very young when she semi-estranged us and 'Don't you think I wanted him there?', with regard to DH attending her marriage (it wasn't a wedding as such, a signing at the Registry office at the first slot in the morning, as it was the cheapest, but her in laws were involved).

Having said all that, DD1 is till very much under the control of SIL/LB, who seems to have assumed responsibility for all financial matters. I agree with Attila that I was stupid to mention anything about giving money to the DGDs, I should have just done it. I have been kicking myself.

I note the suggestion of the junior shares ISA, but it seems that they already have one, set up by SIL/LB's grandparents, so I would have to pay into that one, in which he would be the one in charge instead of my DD, and also it would not be differentiated and something especially from my DH.

So sorry for your loss OP

Whatever you do, don't allow them have any access to that money or control you here. That money is from you and your lovely DH.

Your rules X

I followed your previous threads as well. Condolences on your husband. As with PP, don't mention it again and get some financial advice.

Firstly, I am sorry for the loss of your DH.

I hope I can offer a slightly different view. My parents have invested in property for their grandson. They asked me my opinion, I said no and it would be better to give him money, they went ahead anyway. They wanted it to be something DS can remember them by. I'm sure they think I'm grabby and ungrateful.

The property they have invested in is in a war zone, deserted, thousands of miles away. It's in a country where we don't speak the language. There are no jobs, no busses, schools, shops etc. Even before it was a war zone, it was not a popular place to live. There is no one there to look after it and it has been broken into a number of times. DS will have to pay more taxes on it than it's worth.

We explained all of this to them but I sense it's important for them that he has something to remember them by, and won't accept that it's actually a costly inconvenience to DS.

SIL may have been rude in his delivery but maybe there's something there that's worth considering?

Your money, do what you want with it, don’t let him bully you.

Could you place everything you have into a trust. I’m not sure what your circumstances are but do you want this person getting his hands on anything when you die. You can set the trust up so your grandchildren only get the money. Look into bloodline trust which stop the partners/spouses of your children/grandchildren getting access to the money. My FIL has everything in trust, when he dies it goes to his children/grandchildren, it’s discretionary so the trustees say who can access it. It’s set up so only blood relatives are beneficiaries. I have no right to it but my DH & DCs do, I’m fine with this as it’s my FILs money to do with as he pleases. It also means if DH & I were to divorce after FIL dies I will have no claim to the money unlike if DH just inherited cash, I could take half if we split.

My understanding of trusts is you can pretty much set them up to do what ever you want, the money can only be used for x, y & z etc..

@ChopinandChampagne they can have a stocks and shares ISA set up by you it's only cash ISAs that your limited to

Invest it yourself and tell him you've made your own arrangements; which you won't be discussing further. If you need birth certificates, they are public documents and you can apply for copies without their knowledge/permission.

i note the suggestion of the junior shares ISA, but it seems that they already have one, set up by SIL/LB's grandparents, so I would have to pay into that one, in which he would be the one in charge instead of my DD, and also it would not be differentiated and something especially from my DH

This is excellent as it gives you a diplomatic way to do something different. Your specifications are that it is something from DH that they will have that connection so you can find another investment that can maybe in trust for them that they can get regular statements for. The trust will keep it for them and not lb although I’d like to think he wouldn’t deprive his own kids.

I haven't seen your previoius threads but it sounds like your DD is in a controlling and abusive relationship and her abuser is trying to make sure he has control of the money you would like your DGDs to have.

Realistically, if they get the money at the age of 18, he is still likely to get access to it.

I would inviest it myself and allocate it to them in my will. Then, hopefully, you will get the chance to help them in a way that protects the money from him.

Make sure you keep in touch with your DD and keep letting her know that you love her and will always be there for her when she needs you. She needs to know that your door is open if she decides to leave him.

Try not to blame her for keeping things from you. It is very hard to see coercive control when you're the victim and she probably felt she had no alternative.

There is a book called 'living with the dominator' by Pat Craven. It helped me understand what was happening in my marriage. It might help your daughter.

Just say you are going to have a long think and will leave it a few months. Then set up a savings account. You control it until the kids are 16. You can then add as you wish

When the few months are up and if he mentions it just say you took advice and have gone with a savings account you will look after until the kids are 16, if it’s not mentioned them simply don’t bring it up again

So he didnt get his own parents to invest in bullion for them then?
OP I really hoped that everything would work out for you. Reading your words about your DH dying made me cry for all you been through.
You are still greiving so please dont make any choices until you feel comfortable to do so. It is such a wonderful gesture that should come from you.
Its awful that you are still treading on eggshells although understandable now you have a better relationship with DD1.
Also we think that being generous with cash gifts will demonstrate love, but to SIL it will never be enough so maybe after this is sorted do not mention money to them again. In fact more important is to tell your DD1 that is very important to you to have regular contact with GC to talk to them how wonderful their grandad was and keep his memory alive as they grow up.
You have been so much the last year I hope you have lots of real life support too.

Are you likely to have other grandchildren from your other daughters? There could be some ill feeling if only the two oldest grandchildren receive this amount unless you can match it for other future grandchildren. I'd be likely to be regretfully telling the SIL that I'd had some additional expenses recently and I've had to reconsider my offer and make some economies. The only acceptable response to your offer was a sincere thanks for a very generous gift and frankly it is nothing to do with SIL.

Op you have been through so much. Your last post is beautiful. You are too sensible to succumbe to the bully. Could you ask the bank for ideas that keep your money safe from your daughter's husband?

Am I the only one who said, "Oh fucking hell" when they realised this was lobster boy?

I am so sorry you lost your husband. Given the past difficulties (to say the least) with your daughter and that twat her partner, I would keep any savings as far from them as you can. I wouldn't have their names anywhere near it. Your daughter is somehow in thrall to this man and he is absolutely vile.

What about finding a good financial adviser and following their advice regarding investing it? I know you think it's a good idea for your grandchildren to add to it, but realistically that can only be done with their father's consent. Your daughter doesn't seem to have any real autonomy. I know there's a big tax advantage in saving it under their names but you can't guarantee they'll get it.

Do the parents have to be involved? Can't you appoint a solicitor to have care of it until they turn 18/21?

I would make it 25, tbh.

Oh good lord! Lobster Boy again!

Could he not just offer his condolences and step back?

Have a chat with an independent financial advisor, someone at your bank. Explain your difficulties and ask what financial vehicle they suggest.

And yes, make the payout/autonomy age 21 or 25.... just in case.

My will is also set up for 25.

Talk to your bank manager or a financial advisor.

Also consider how many future DGC you might get. 10k is a lot of money, and maybe you will have to do that 6 or 7 times?

(My MIL had 3 children, and has 14 DGC and one DGGC, she is only 70!)

And I am so sorry for your loss.