SIL and money issues

[ChopinandChampagne]

I recently lost my DH and I thought that it would be nice to give some money to my DGDs, both toddlers, to set aside for their future as a gift from him. Realistically, they will not remember him, but I thought that if they have some money to spend on travel or driving lessons or to help with their university costs or whatever, they would think of him and know how much he loved them, even though he didn't live to see them grow up.

I did some internet research and the suggestions were for a Junior Isa, which a parent would need to set up, and I would then pay into, and the child could access at 18. Alternatively, a savings account, which I would be able to set up as a grandparent, as long as I produce a copy of the birth certificate, which the child can access and take over at 16.

So far, so good and, I thought, relatively uncontroversial, so I suggested it to my DD and said that I wanted to give each of the DGDs £10k from DH and the options. I said that I wanted it to be a separate account and that suggested that she open a Junior Isa or that I should open a savings account. Her response was that she would have to discuss it with SIL and I said fine, thought no more it. Then, I sense that there is a bit of tension and DD says she wants to set up a telephone call with both her and SIL one evening, to discuss the matter after the DGDs are in bed. This was a text, so I reply saying fine, is now a good time, but DD said not, but we could schedule a couple of days later, but only if she has completed her coursework for her studies.

Then, a couple of days ago, I receive an email from SIL, from whom I never hear anything direct, advising me that if I really want to put money in an account, he will open one, but that he thinks that it is a bad idea, as inflation will erode the money. He thinks I should invest it in gold bullion or some other specific account (he says he has recently opened one for DD), and he provided links to various websites.

The tone of the email comes across, not as friendly advice, but telling me what to do. I have said that I will have a rethink, but I am worried about offending him if I don't follow his advice. I feel that he is trying to control how I invest the money. He refers to it as my wanting to invest for the DGD's future, which it is partly, but it is also about wanting the DGDs to remember or be reminded of DH. I don't really want to invest in bullion, as I think it's a bit volatile, and the idea of a bank account is that the DGDs would get the bank statements and maybe learn how to save.

Does anyone have any advice on how best to handle this diplomatically? There is quite a bit of history with SIL (Lobster Boy for those who remember my previous threads), but things are on a reasonably even keel at present and I currently have a good relationship with DD, which I don't want to upset. She says that there is no rush to decide how best to invest the money, it is important to get it right.

OP, I read your last thread and I just wanted to say that I am so sorry that you have lost your lovely DH

Do look after yourself, you will be vulnerable in grief and LB and your daughter (manipulated by him) will not have your best interests at heart. While it is good that you are reconciled, remember how easy it was for DD to cut you all out. It's likely to happen again.

Sorry for the loss of your lovely husband

Have you ever considered investing the money in a hit man for LB? Priceless payoff

Have you ever considered investing the money in a hit man for LB? Priceless payoff

Sadly I actually suspect it is Lobsterboy’s real life fantasy that Chopin will come to an early demise and that he has already plotted how to spend her v hard earned savings - and whilst despite his education he has chosen not to work a day in his life just ripped off the benefits system and exploited the bursary system in place for trainee teachers.

I nearly posted about learning Voodoo but a hit man would be more efficient.

Im just worried that if you withdraw the money offer, or dont now go along with Lobsters ideas, that you will be right back where you were, with them withdrawing from you as they did before.
Its a big shame you mentioned it at all

I hope that any will you have made has balanced out any payments made against anything gone to the other daughters - and its written absolutely clearly so ther can be no misunderstanding or ambiguity - I see you have written off the £10K you lent them - but have you equally gifted £10K to the other daughters to keep things fair?

I also agree that getting POA in place, with maybe discussing having one child do it so as to not look as if they are the only ones cut out, is a must - if LB suspects you of losing capacity he is going to be in there like a shot and this needs to be prevented at all costs otherwise he will take everything and leave nothing for the other two, and you may find your care, if needed, seriously compromised

Bloody Lobster Boy. I despise Lobster Boy. I can't wait for the day you post saying that he has left your DD and buggered off to Outer Mongolia or something. He is so horrible.

I am so incredibly sorry to hear that you have lost your DH. What a difficult year it has been for you. I imagine you're feeling quite fragile really, I know I would be. No real advice except and please be very, very careful about how much you tell DD about your finances - I imagine LB will be like a shark smelling blood now.

Have you managed to think anymore o get tying a POA in place Chopin? It's something that's been coming up time and time again on this thread

@AttilaTheMeerkat

Your daughter cannot do a single thing in that house without his say so or knowledge and she sadly remains very much under his coercive control. Sadly too she may never escape him and perhaps only realise his true nature when the kids have left home and its just she and him. He really does have champagne tastes but beer money.

I think you have underestimated here just how much by now she is being controlled by him. Your mistake here was to tell your DD about this in the first place because as night follows day she was going to run it past him.

I would now leave funds to your grandchildren without telling your daughter directly and for any moneies you leave to them to be placed in trust until they are 30 or at least 25.

I absolutely agree with placing them in trust till they are at least 25. For the sole reason that at 16/18/21 they may well still be as influenced by their father as their mother is now. By 25 they will have hopefully either have completed uni/apprentice/several years of work, and be able to think more for themselves.

Oh OP I’m so sorry to hear that your husband has passed away. I remember all of your previous threads and he sounded like a wonderful man. I’m sure apart from everything else, you’ll be missing his measured & calm support in your dealings with the awful LB. Sending love and

I’d be inclined to email to say that you’ve taken his advice (ha!) and agree that a junior isa or savings account wouldn’t be as good a value as you first thought. And that your financial advisor has recommended something else (anything that LB doesn’t need to be involved with and can’t get his hands on!). And if he emails back with a different suggestion you can say “oh dear it’s all set up now”.

Never mention money to them ever again. They have more than enough and it brings out the worst in Lobster Boy and your daughter, unfortunately.

You sound so lovely and I’m so so sorry to hear of your loss of your darling husband, he sounded wonderful. Be kind to yourself, grief is so hard xxx

So sorry to hear about your husband OP. I read your previous posts last year and often thought of you both!

Unfortunately, I think LB targeted your DD all those years ago, knowing that she was from a well off family. He is evil! God knows what his upbringing was all about. Nasty piece of work!

I can’t really add anything more than some very wise PPs have already said. Really just want to wish you some peace in the months to come. 🌸🌸🌸

I am glad to hear that your DD1 has started her course which will be an opportunity for her to access people in the outside world and hopefully “see” the dysfunction in her relationship and Lobsterboy’s distorted paranoid and closed world. But I suspect it will be a v long time coming.

However I sincerely hope that you have the strength and insight to keep them and all their antics at arms length so that you can, over the next few years, honour the love you have for your beloved husband by grieving deeply and purely and not being distracted by them.

They have already done years and years of damage to you all, stolen many opportunities for joy and caused much unnecessary distress in the last years of your husband’s life. Don’t give them the opportunity to do this again.

Thank you so much for all of the further advice. It is so lovely to see my old friends on this thread, such as billybagpuss and RandomMess, who gave me so much sound advice on the last thread.

First, regarding investments, I can see why some people have suggested premium bonds but, also, as one pp said, this could lead to inequality if one DGD struck lucky and the other didn't. However, I have spoken with one agent who deals with casked whisky, having made some on line enquiries, and he is going to send me some further information and suggestions. I will also speak to my BIL.

I like the idea of a bloodline trust, which someone else suggested and am making enquiries about this. I am 61 and, as far as I know, I am in good health, but my mother and maternal DGM both died at age 62 and, of course, DH was diagnosed at that age, so I feel - hopefully irrationally - that the portents are not good. I need to do what a number of people have suggested, which is to take professional advice and do some proper financial planning, so that my DDs are taken care of, and that any DGCs also have something. I absolutely will make sure that DD2 and DD3 and any of their DC, if they have any, are not disadvantaged. At the same time, if I don't 'fall off my perch' shortly, I am conscious that I need to provide for future care, in case I become physically or mentally incapacitated. For this reason, Powers of Attorney are a very good idea and, again, this is something which I am looking into, but I also need to keep some flexibility. I am so grateful for all of the advice.

I am afraid that whoever suggested that LB was biding his time, until DD1 has been allocated enough time for grieving, may have been right. Since the exchange with SIL - when I just emailed back and thanked him and said I would have a rethink - the communication with DD1 has not been quite the same. Yes, she is still in touch, says she misses DH etc, but there have been no photos or videos of the DGCs for two weeks. I know that isn't very long, but to put it into context, I was receiving them virtually every day before. Maybe it is just coincidence or maybe it is the beginnings of manipulation, we shall see.

And that's the sad thing, which I have already told DD1, that I am afraid to really love the DGDs, in case they are taken away from me, as their mother was.She may be back but I am also afraid to really love and trust again. I mean I do love her, but I am wary of being hurt again, although nothing can hurt more than losing DH. From that point of view, I am not bothered at 'falling off my perch', not at all, although I wouldn't be as brave as he was if it were something similar. I just don't want to leave a mess for the DCs to clear up after my death.

DH didn't express any wishes or leave any bequests in his will. I am the sole beneficiary. But I thought it would just be nice for the DGDs - and any subsequent DGC - to have something of their own to remember DH by.

DH didn't want DD1 to be disinherited as he felt, and I agree, that it is a terrible message to send to a child after your death, when there is no chance of a reconciliation, not that we are estranged at present. DH wanted to give them each a sum of money for use during their lifetimes and suggested £100k, so ironically that is what they will be getting, albeit by a slightly different route. We had agreed that each DD would then inherit a third on the second death, but each third to be divided between each DD and any DGC. So, as things stand at present, DD1 and DGD1 and DGD2 would inherit one ninth, and DD2 and DD3 would inherit a third each. That way, DD1 should not be upset, but her share is limited.
I am also concerned that DD2 and DD3 should have somewhere to live and that, so far as possible, the family does not split any further after my death. I suppose it is what we all want, but even a couple of hours on MN shows that this is often not the reality. I think that Yoni is sadly, right, and that I will always have to keep DD1 at arm's length.

Regarding DD1's course, it was all going so well, she was really enthused, even spoke about wanting to teach excluded children, as she thought Classics might 'save' them. She had managed to arrange her second placement at a private school back where she lives (there are very limited placements for Classics, unfortunately, some of her short have not been teaching Classics at all). She was quite excited, saying that if she subsequently found a full time position, she would be able to send the DGDs there at reduced fees. She seemed to have formed a close bond with her tutors and mentors and just seemed different. The Covid struck again, she is back home, not seeing anyone. She has quietly dropped the idea of teaching and said to me that she and LB had thought of buying a smallholding, probably in Scotland, where property is cheaper, as they like the outdoor life and want to live off the land. She asked me what I thought, and in such a way that I gained the impression that she was hinting that I might want to contribute, but sometimes I fear that I have become very cynical and suspicious where she and LB are concerned. She said that they were worried about 'hyperinflation'. I said no need to worry, they have a mortgage free house, that there is always a demand for Physics and Classics teachers, and that they should go where the jobs are. Of course, when they have the inheritance, this might well rekindle their plans to move. And, genuinely, good luck to them.

Sorry this is so long!

Also, my apologies for the delay in replying, but I was not having a good day yesterday.

It is so sad reading about how DD1 is. Until she leaves LB she will be kept away from you.

Are you to afraid to ask casually "any photos of the DDs today it's been ages?"

I think this morning I just want to send you hugs, I’m not surprised you are having bad days 💐

You said the same on the last thread about being scared to love dgds and I fear you may be right although I hope there is still some ongoing contact, although Scotland is a perfect reason for them to restrict it.

Just as an aside, will lb keep the whiskey? It’s a very easy thing for a parent of a youngster to steal by either selling or drinking.

I gave my godson a bottle of port for his christening and his dm had to hide it as df kept finding it going ‘ooh where did this come from😂’ it’s now worth a few hundred but dgs has said he won’t sell he wants to share it with us.

I think the reality is your other two DD’s will always feel a little estranged from her now she really did upset them. I hope she doesn’t pull away again but I think you’re best option now is how you were just after she first made contact again, bright and cheery but saying and offering nothing of any substance.

It is such a shame that the uni course has been restricted back to isolation. Has she ever said anything negative about lb, do you think she realises?

"She has quietly dropped the idea of teaching and said to me that she and LB had thought of buying a smallholding, probably in Scotland, where property is cheaper, as they like the outdoor life and want to live off the land".

His latest crazed idea no doubt. Live off the land indeed; they have absolutely NO idea of what that is like. I can;t actually see her teaching again and he in particularly manipulated that bursary system to his own ends.

The people I feel the most for in that family are their children because they will be the ones to suffer now and going forward from their parents poor choices. HE is worried about hyperinflation; she is merely parroting his words because she is still very much under his influence and coercive control. Sadly she may never wake up; she is well into the Cult of Him (she is his muse to he being the svengali) and he targeted her deliberately as well. It was a tragic day for you all the day he entered her life.

I just want to give you hug. X

And tell him he is not welcome in Scotland. 🤮

Yes @AttilaTheMeerkat it is precisely that, a cult, I do seem to remember reading about how to extract someone from a cult during the first thread.

He did always want to live outside the system though so I can see how Scotland is a logical step.

Apologies, that was really unkind about the Scotland comment. The thought of LB turns much stomach, the idea he could be in 200 mile radius from me makes my skin crawl. However this is not about me and was totally insensitive comment.

In an abusive relationship, the abuser – also, often a man (but, not always) – will demand fealty to his needs. He may offer stability and a home. He might even offer a sappy sort of closeness, but watch out. If you obey, he may refrain from attacking. You may even be praised. If you don’t, you’ll be on the receiving end of self righteous outrage – and the physical, sexual or verbal abuse that goes with it.

This is how cults usually work:-

1. First, there’s usually a charismatic leader who draws you in. (I seem to recall you writing that on the surface LB comes across as quite charismatic). The abuser is often very compelling. He cares about you, and may be quite vulnerable himself. You feel an unusual sense of bonding with him; but this sets you up for a dependency that will hurt you.

1. Next, the leader sets up an in group vs. an out group. You are cut off normal life. He beats you; or she berates you. She wants no one to know about her power over you. Slowly, your social life dwindles to a world that he can control.

1. Control is maintained: Abuse keeps in you line, as well a love and praise. He will tell you that he loves you. Many abusers do, in fact “love” their wives (or husbands), only to abuse them when frustrated or when under the influence. Your child mind hopes the storm will be over soon. And, he’ll hurt you if you stand up for yourself.

1. To leave is to be cut off or put into danger. An order of protection is no guarantee of safety. Abusers often act out in desperation. They have dependency needs too, but manage it by control and dominance. Many women are frightened of coming forward for fear of retaliation. And, often they have something real to worry about.

The narcissism of a malignant abuser has much in common with cults. It’s just without religious overtones; and it’s a smaller scale. You are adored, then punished. You lose you equilibrium, because he is so sure of himself. You are cut off from your family and loved ones, and keep the secret to protect the relationship. The cult robs the devotee of his or her basic belief in himself or herself. So too with the abusive relationship.

And, over time, you lose a sense of adult competence (as indeed your DD here has done). You worry that you won’t be able to live without him. Or, that he will come after you. Or, that you are responsible for his safety. After all, he may do himself in without you in his life. I would think your daughter thinks very much like this now.

I am afraid that whoever suggested that LB was biding his time, until DD1 has been allocated enough time for grieving, may have been right. Since the exchange with SIL - when I just emailed back and thanked him and said I would have a rethink - the communication with DD1 has not been quite the same. Yes, she is still in touch, says she misses DH etc, but there have been no photos or videos of the DGCs for two weeks. I know that isn't very long, but to put it into context, I was receiving them virtually every day before. Maybe it is just coincidence or maybe it is the beginnings of manipulation, we shall see.

This is exactly him behind this still punishing and manipulating you as he has before because of money and you dared to have an opinion on where your money goes. You weren’t even told if their existence before and then the quote bizarre onslaught of numerous photos daily started. He wants you to get hooked and then watch your pain as he rips them away again like he has now.

I wouldn’t rise to his bait of asking for photos - because then it will open some negative dialogue - let your DD she her DH for what he is - don’t get in his way.

You say that withdrawing the DGDs (which has already happened) won’t hurt as much as losing your DH - but it will hurt you much added on top of the deep deep pain of loss of your DH - you need to totally emotionally protect yourself because you don’t need any more pain. It seems that you have already been cautious with a degree of emotional distance and this will serve you well.

I am not surprised that Mr antisocial, paranoid, conspiracy theorist is looking to remove himself and family even more from society and move to a remote small holding. He is so predictable - it is easy now to map out his life choices.

The irony though of their counter culture anti capitalist proclamations wanting to send their DD to private school is amusing. I suspect they will be tapping you up for school fees.

I would keep the vanilla, distance relationship so that you don’t get drawn into any of the traps he sets for conflict. Don’t get distracted or immersed in the details, narrative and dramas of their lives which will likely become more bizarre and will always be about money and annihilation of you. Just keep you eyes at a steady gaze above them in the mid distance and your heart and mind and spirit immersed in the emotionally healthy, loving and kind people who you have in your life and who you need to support your grief over the next few years.

Your other DDs don’t need you drawn back into this dysfunction - it will drain you all unnecessarily. Take care of yourself - focus on your love for your DH.

@AttilaTheMeerkat - absolutely spot on. Chopin I think you need to keep in mind the depths and extremes of personality disordered that you are dealing with. Your DD was deliberating wounded in the early days to create a toxic trauma bond with him. She is exactly in a cult and you specifically are the nemesis. If she ever does “see it” - it will never be by any illumination from you - it will be in another context.

Your job is to keep cool and keep doors open for the long game - he is provoking you to get involved in conflict and slam doors in your DD. But you know his game. And you also have to balance this in your life as you live it today. It should not dominate you emotionally or distract or preoccupy you because this is futile and a drain on your precious and finite energy and headspace which you need to focus on yourself and your other DDs.

I missed the bit that she has quietly dropped the idea of teaching - this was always the outcome he had in mind - we all knew he just wanted the money - she obviously didn’t know that was his plan for her. But this is the tension etc that she needs to see and know on her own that will erode the relationship. Don’t get in the way of it.