SIL and money issues

[ChopinandChampagne]

I recently lost my DH and I thought that it would be nice to give some money to my DGDs, both toddlers, to set aside for their future as a gift from him. Realistically, they will not remember him, but I thought that if they have some money to spend on travel or driving lessons or to help with their university costs or whatever, they would think of him and know how much he loved them, even though he didn't live to see them grow up.

I did some internet research and the suggestions were for a Junior Isa, which a parent would need to set up, and I would then pay into, and the child could access at 18. Alternatively, a savings account, which I would be able to set up as a grandparent, as long as I produce a copy of the birth certificate, which the child can access and take over at 16.

So far, so good and, I thought, relatively uncontroversial, so I suggested it to my DD and said that I wanted to give each of the DGDs £10k from DH and the options. I said that I wanted it to be a separate account and that suggested that she open a Junior Isa or that I should open a savings account. Her response was that she would have to discuss it with SIL and I said fine, thought no more it. Then, I sense that there is a bit of tension and DD says she wants to set up a telephone call with both her and SIL one evening, to discuss the matter after the DGDs are in bed. This was a text, so I reply saying fine, is now a good time, but DD said not, but we could schedule a couple of days later, but only if she has completed her coursework for her studies.

Then, a couple of days ago, I receive an email from SIL, from whom I never hear anything direct, advising me that if I really want to put money in an account, he will open one, but that he thinks that it is a bad idea, as inflation will erode the money. He thinks I should invest it in gold bullion or some other specific account (he says he has recently opened one for DD), and he provided links to various websites.

The tone of the email comes across, not as friendly advice, but telling me what to do. I have said that I will have a rethink, but I am worried about offending him if I don't follow his advice. I feel that he is trying to control how I invest the money. He refers to it as my wanting to invest for the DGD's future, which it is partly, but it is also about wanting the DGDs to remember or be reminded of DH. I don't really want to invest in bullion, as I think it's a bit volatile, and the idea of a bank account is that the DGDs would get the bank statements and maybe learn how to save.

Does anyone have any advice on how best to handle this diplomatically? There is quite a bit of history with SIL (Lobster Boy for those who remember my previous threads), but things are on a reasonably even keel at present and I currently have a good relationship with DD, which I don't want to upset. She says that there is no rush to decide how best to invest the money, it is important to get it right.

LB is apparently in favour of family supporting each other

LB is in favour of you giving him money and him calling the shots more like. I sadly agree with the other posters who believe that your DD is cruel too. You seem like such a kind, thoughtful person that is having her emotions played with for financial access but I don't think you are ready to face the reality of what you daughter is doing yet, maybe after the loss of your DH the risk of losing your DD and DGC is just too much for now.

Sorry op but you need to open your eyes to what this is. You are there because of money.

And I'm concerned you have said about visiting them in Ireland- they have clearly taken that as acceptance/approval of their plans. You can't do anything to stop it, but equally I wouldn't be condoning it, which you seem to be doing.

If I was your other daughters I'd be fuming at you right now. Honestly, this is horrible to type out but you need to wake up and see it for what it really is. Sorry to be harsh.

@ChopinandChampagne I sadly agree with @NeilBuchananisBanksy.

I would feel very angry and utterly aghast if l were one of your other daughters. Do they actually have a relationship with her? Do they meet up etc? I bet the answer is no to both.

Wether she is being manipulated by LB or not she is emotionally abusing you. Everything is on their terms and you are punished if you step out of line.

You really need to firm up your boundaries and forge more of your love and kindness to those that do the same to you.

LB is in favour of YOU supporting HIS family. He has no intention of returning the favour. Where was he when DH was ill? Where was he when you were grieving? Only pops his head up to stick out his hand.
DD is a puppet used to achieve this or she is entirely complicit. I know you don’t want to hear this, but she is intelligent and educated. She knows exactly how best to play you.
Those children have been used as carrots, dangled in front of you to get the money they want. If you think that an hour or two here and there is enough time to form a bond - especially with toddlers, you don’t have any idea about the time and energy their parents will spend badmouthing you to ensure that this doesn’t happen. (My parents were the same.)

@NeilBuchananisBanksy

Sorry op but you need to open your eyes to what this is. You are there because of money.

And I'm concerned you have said about visiting them in Ireland- they have clearly taken that as acceptance/approval of their plans. You can't do anything to stop it, but equally I wouldn't be condoning it, which you seem to be doing.

If I was your other daughters I'd be fuming at you right now. Honestly, this is horrible to type out but you need to wake up and see it for what it really is. Sorry to be harsh.

Agreed to all. Your DD is mistreating you too and the reason they're making even these attempts to keep you onside is because of money.

You are very tuned in and observant of their behaviours and the emotional dynamics. This is a good thing to protect you from any threat or making a perceived “miss-step” but I really hope that you are as attentive to your own internal state in order to notice and take care of yourself first.

I agree with PP that being too close to their daily antics is not healthy. The incessant text stuff maybe served a purpose to re-establish a connection but it seems that you need more space and I would suggest that a weekly FT is best. Maybe drop the daily text stuff now - as it just stops her facing the fact that she doesn’t connect with any other adult in the outside world beyond LB.

It was really rather wonderful that you got to spend some time with your friend and her family afterwards as I am sure that they showered you with warmth, compassion, honour and respect in their hospitality which of course you deserve.

I suspect that the many months of anxious build-up (that it actually even happened), alongside the heightened emotions throughout the visit, followed by an initial sense of relief that it passed off seemingly without incident and provided some golden moments, has left you totally wiped out.

This was a huge milestone and must have been especially bittersweet in relation to the DGD as the last time you saw them was at your lovely DH’s funeral. And the next time you see them is uncertain, likely a very long way off and no doubt will require you to jump through more and more emotional and financially abusive hoops.

Don’t let the DGD bond that you experienced become a trap. That was always the plan. If you read up on abusive relationships it’s a perpetual “nice / nasty” cycle. Only “nice” enough for minimum time to draw you back into the exploitation control zone / punching distance. I think that you need to notice this and withdraw and step back out of that zone.

Now you are home and out of the high stress mode where your brain and body had to switch off it’s thinking and feeling functions (as you were just trying to survive the visit - hyper alert, trying to avoid treading on any landmines) you will be now be reflecting and processing what actually happened and what the real impact is on your feelings.

Just keep open minded as to what might come through as there might well be some sorrow and anger bubbling up. I suspect that you have no idea when you will next see these DGDs or even the new baby at any point.

That’s a lot of unnecessary “living grief” to come to accept and tolerate alongside the real grief you are experiencing.

So I am worried that this will totally wring you out.

You have other much bigger priorities to manage emotionally over the next few months - all of those weeks and months leading up to the first anniversary of a death can be very traumatic and all consuming as the emotional flashbacks to your loved ones deterioration and specific events are re-lived by the calendar. These are very tough days, weeks, months that you have ahead of you. You will be raw and you need to make sure that you are supported and rested and not burdened by anything else whilst you go through this tough phase.

You will need to conserve your own emotional strength to get through this period and your DD2 and DD3 will also be going through this bleak and painful part the grief journey.

Don’t let DD1 and her harebrained antics distract you all from this important phase.

Nothing has changed with them. Your DH death, your grief and the estrangement from DD1 sisters barely registers in their selfish cold hearts. This is the worst time in your life and they are not there for you in any shape or form. Worse they continue their grifting and bitterness. Shocking and bizarre that all all of the terrible things that they have done over many years and that has happened to you don’t outweigh or bring any sort of balance to the situation around the a single (totally rational maternal action) of the house incident. That’s a classic symptom of his PD - rigid and black and white thinking. You can’t turn this debate this. They just want you to discuss it with him so that he can continue to emotionally violate you.

His paranoid/narc PD is just playing out in the classic cliched way. You will not be able to impact that - but you have a choice to either swerve and protect yourself from their nonsense or get entangled in his dark emotional valency which could take you under.

Nothing has changed with them. Your DH death, your grief and the estrangement from DD1 sisters barely registers in their selfish cold hearts. This is the worst time in your life and they are not there for you in any shape or form. Worse they continue their grifting and bitterness. Shocking and bizarre that all all of the terrible things that they have done over many years and that has happened to you don’t outweigh or bring any sort of balance to the situation around the a single (totally rational maternal action) of the house incident. That’s a classic symptom of his PD - rigid and black and white thinking. You can’t turn this debate this. They just want you to discuss it with him so that he can continue to emotionally violate you.

His paranoid/narc PD is just playing out in the classic cliched way. You will not be able to impact that - but you have a choice to either swerve and protect yourself from their nonsense or get entangled in his dark emotional valency which could take you under.

Wise wise words.
(On a separate note @Sssloou thank you for a phrase I learned from an earlier post of yours, 'drop the rope'. I have done it with a sibling over the past year and it works. Not easy, but it works. I just have to make it my mantra for life in relation to her.)

@CharityDingle - I learnt that metaphor on here - I find it really powerful to visualise the energy and fuel that we are inadvertently providing to maintain the tension in a futile fight with difficult characters.

Once we let go of that struggle, we can find something, someone or somewhere more meaningful and mutually positive to direct our finite emotional energy and attention.

Wise words from all. My heart goes out to you, it really does.

Also, I can’t believe how small your DD1s life has become, compared to the family life she had growing up. She has completely and utterly subsumed her wants, needs and desires into his skewed wrong-thinking. No more family holidays or even lunch out on the horizon for her or her children. A life of hard work on a run down smallholding, home educating and no interaction with anyone unless allowed by her controlling husband. How can she possibly think that is normal compared to her pre-LB life?

I did laugh when she implied he doesn’t like eating out. Except when the bill is paid by someone else and he chooses lobster 🦞 He seems to make up likes/dislikes to suit whatever narrative he wants parroted back.

Wise words from posters especially @Sssloou (who, if you are not some form of counsellor in real life, have missed your calling! I find myself nodding along to your well worded and thought out advice ❤️)

I love the 'drop the rope' too 😊 and will take that forward myself.

I often use the circles of control and influence. I write down all my concerns and worries, and then move them into a circle of control (if it's something that actually I personally can control), or move them to a circle of influence (if it's something that I can actually influence, but not control) and the rest remains outside, yes as a concern but it helps me see that I actually cannot do anything about these, and hence all I can do is manage my own reactions and responses to them so I am not stressing or anxious about them (or try and minimise it!) as it isn't and won't ever achieve anything aside from make any stressed and anxious,

*aside from making me

.

Thank you everyone for all of your wise comments. I am sorry for the delay in replying but, as Sssloou rightly predicted, I felt absolutely mentally and physically drained by the time I got home.

DD3 has come to stay for a couple of weeks, so we had a takeaway together last night, which was lovely. DD2 will be back from BF's later today and we have plans for a BBQ at the weekend. DD3's birthday was between DH's death and funeral and, although we made the best of it, we are going to have another unofficial birthday celebration next week. So there are things to look forward to, and my overwhelming feeling is one of relief - relief that I went to visit DD1 (and my friend and goddaughter) - and relief that I am back relatively unscathed.

I went to my solicitors yesterday and signed off on my new will and letter of wishes, which is another source of relief. Basically, on my death, DD2 and DD3 and the firm of solicitors will become my trustees, with the estate going into a will trust, and to be disposed of in accordance with my wishes. This protects the assets and gives flexibility, thereby preventing LB from sticking his oar in, and putting pressure on the executors to dispose of assets asap, so that they can have DD1's share. Their behaviour around the recent inheritance has confirmed my view that I have done the right thing here. In the event I wish to do so, my solicitor has advised that I can simply change my letter of wishes, so that DD1's share goes direct to the DGCs. In any event, it will be up to my trustees what happens, with the general intention being that each DD and any of her DGC will share one third.

I was pleased to have seen DD1 and to have spent time alone with her, and I think she was pleased too. It gave me a clearer insight into the situation and a better understanding, so that I feel less angry and upset around things. The bottom line is that she chose LB, as he made her do, as I knew he would, and she told me that her first loyalty is to him, as I realised long ago. I find it disappointing and hurtful that this loyalty is so all encompassing that it excludes everyone else, including family and friends, but that is the current situation. I feel calmer after the visit and, although I loved the time spent with the DGDs, I am realistic that I won't see them again for a while

In response to a pp, there is no real relationship between DD1 and her sisters, no direct contact. DD2 and DD3 sometimes ask how she is and they wish her well, but they are not in touch. Like me and DH and DD1's friends, they were just discarded, sacrificed on the altar of LB.

However, I do think that DD1 needs me. She doesn't seem to have anyone else in her life to talk to apart from LB and she has one friend in the village, whose DC are the same age. Yesterday, I had three missed calls and a request to speak to me urgently. So I called back and it seems that there is a bit of a problem with the property purchase in that they need an Irish national insurance number before they can buy. This requires a formal application, to be witnessed by someone with a professional qualification such as a doctor, lawyer, teacher etc. They want to return the form asap and she asked if it was ok to forge my signature.

I said I am happy to sign the form for you but I think you should check with your solicitor first, because it may well be that family members can't sign. I also said that if family members can sign why don't you just ask LB's parents, since they are local. I asked this question several times, but she just didn't respond, so I assume that they have fallen out with PIL. Anyway, it seems that the solicitor is out of office until Monday and they want to send the form off now. I said it is only one working day more and better to get it right or there could be further difficulties down the line, which she seemed to accept.

I also asked her why there was such urgency and said that it will probably take a couple of months to buy the property anyway, to go through the conveyancing process. It seems that they are panicking that Ireland may make vaccinations compulsory to enter the country before they can get over there, and they are still adamant that they will not be vaccinated......!!!

So the drama continues, but I feel more detached since the visit, but simultaneously more focused on DD1 rather than my own hurt, which was overpowering me for a while. I am happy to stand back and be there if she needs me. I will always love her, but she must tread her own path, as must we all.

Good to hear that you have good perspective of the situation and time built in with your other DDs now.

Please step right back from the house buying drama - it’s not yours to facilitate or encourage.

It IS going to go tits up and if you are anywhere near this the blame will land on you. Don’t give them any advice - be vague, indifferent, disinterested. It’s not a good move for your DGDs or DD1. You can’t stop it but you shouldn’t pretend you think it’s a good idea as this will backfire.

You DD1 does need you - or will need you.

But she will need you when this nonsense is over - when she has hit rock bottom with his histrionic harebrained schemes.

I would step right back and let her fall flat on her face. It will be years away.

Glad that you have your will sorted. That’s a huge achievement.

I really hope you didn't agree she could forge your signature, that is a recipe for disaster!!!

They asked to FORGE your signature on a document to get a national insurance number to buy this house? They are lying as there are no restrictions on people buying from the UK. Have a read of this link www.moneyguideireland.com/buying-a-house-in-ireland-while-living-abroad.html and get legal advice to protect yourself asap. LB and your dd are up to something here. I would be worried what else your DD has signed your name to.

Thanks Sssloou, brilliant advice, as ever. I can't help worrying about her though. I wish that they would at least postpone until after DGC3 has been born. They don't seem to have checked out the medical facilities nearby or even be factoring it in, despite the previous emergency C sections. Imagine having 3 x DGC under 4, a husband who does nothing apart from DIY projects that last forever, a dilapidated wreck of a house which will take years to be properly habitable, no friends and family nearby, 15 miles from the nearest town, and throw in farm animals to care for etc. As a pp said, her life is so different from how it used to be.

No Random, of course not. I don't terribly enjoy porridge

If she can forge your signature and is willing to do so on official documents, what else has she forged your signature on?

That is a very big red flag right there.

Dontbeme - thanks for the link. You do need a National Insurance number, or PPS number as it's called, in order to buy property in Ireland - I checked the position. It's just a formality, I think, as they are UK residents, but the process can take a couple of months, which may hold up the moving plans.

Honestly at this point I would be running a credit check against my name, they could well have signed OP's name on all sorts of loans. I wouldn't trust either of them.

I would follow up with a text or email saying that you do not give consent for them to forge your signature.
Copy that text and keep it safe in case of future ramifications.

NO NO NO to allowing them to forge your signature!

LB needs to get vaccinated and at least view this property he wants so much and is throwing DD1’s money at!

I think you need to state via email that they have permission this ONE time only to forge your signature. You may find that they have appointed themselves POA, Enduring POA, etc.

Justilou that is a very dangerous course of action to take as it would make the OP complicit in a crime. It would hand LB a loaded gun effectively for future use.