SIL and money issues

[ChopinandChampagne]

I recently lost my DH and I thought that it would be nice to give some money to my DGDs, both toddlers, to set aside for their future as a gift from him. Realistically, they will not remember him, but I thought that if they have some money to spend on travel or driving lessons or to help with their university costs or whatever, they would think of him and know how much he loved them, even though he didn't live to see them grow up.

I did some internet research and the suggestions were for a Junior Isa, which a parent would need to set up, and I would then pay into, and the child could access at 18. Alternatively, a savings account, which I would be able to set up as a grandparent, as long as I produce a copy of the birth certificate, which the child can access and take over at 16.

So far, so good and, I thought, relatively uncontroversial, so I suggested it to my DD and said that I wanted to give each of the DGDs £10k from DH and the options. I said that I wanted it to be a separate account and that suggested that she open a Junior Isa or that I should open a savings account. Her response was that she would have to discuss it with SIL and I said fine, thought no more it. Then, I sense that there is a bit of tension and DD says she wants to set up a telephone call with both her and SIL one evening, to discuss the matter after the DGDs are in bed. This was a text, so I reply saying fine, is now a good time, but DD said not, but we could schedule a couple of days later, but only if she has completed her coursework for her studies.

Then, a couple of days ago, I receive an email from SIL, from whom I never hear anything direct, advising me that if I really want to put money in an account, he will open one, but that he thinks that it is a bad idea, as inflation will erode the money. He thinks I should invest it in gold bullion or some other specific account (he says he has recently opened one for DD), and he provided links to various websites.

The tone of the email comes across, not as friendly advice, but telling me what to do. I have said that I will have a rethink, but I am worried about offending him if I don't follow his advice. I feel that he is trying to control how I invest the money. He refers to it as my wanting to invest for the DGD's future, which it is partly, but it is also about wanting the DGDs to remember or be reminded of DH. I don't really want to invest in bullion, as I think it's a bit volatile, and the idea of a bank account is that the DGDs would get the bank statements and maybe learn how to save.

Does anyone have any advice on how best to handle this diplomatically? There is quite a bit of history with SIL (Lobster Boy for those who remember my previous threads), but things are on a reasonably even keel at present and I currently have a good relationship with DD, which I don't want to upset. She says that there is no rush to decide how best to invest the money, it is important to get it right.

OK, it sounds like there is more backstory on the PIL than is here. So maybe not allies.

My question still remains about them in terms of LB not having a job. However, deluded they are about you, they must see that their son is jobless and without a mobile phone etc. A concerned grandparent might well start asking difficult ‘when are you getting a job’ type questions. LB sounds like he might storm off to another country rather than address those concerns.

Well done for going out with your friend Chopin, that must've felt like a huge mental and emotional hurdle and am so glad you went out and enjoyed the time ❤️

I would agree about boundaries, which you've accepted the feedback on, I can see how you thought of this as more a quick sub which you'd be getting back from DD1's inheritance due anytime but I would just caution against ANYTHING to do with money for DD1 and LB, it's such a tricky area with how they are and I could see the inheritance being paid to DD1 (and I think it would have to be, the executor can't 'chose' to pay anyone else even in a situation where it's owed) and I could see you having to chase DD1 and LB for the 10k with rafts of excuses or silent periods....

I would also caution about too much engagement with LB parents, I think you were cautious and diplomatic last time? And would recommend the same if you do want to see them again. And just conscious that anything you say may end up passed back, we really don't know how their relationships are and what they're truly like, even if they seem nice.

I hope this week goes well and the trip to see DD1 and GD's ❤️

I am not sure your BIL can pay you direct. I thought an inheritance had to be paid to the named person, to do otherwise would surely expose the executor to accusations of improper behaviour?

I'm sure I read that somewhere - but the loan is with DD1, legally the inheritance is a completely separate thing. Please don't make the mistake of conflating the two.

Just sending loads of best wishes for this week, I do hope the meeting goes well.

@BadNomad

I think you're making a big mistake by helping them buy this house. It's an idiotic dream. A fantasy they have done very little research into and have no backup plan. They'll be begging for more money in 6 month's time.

Sadly I agree that it's a mistake. The property is not a fixer upper, it's the type of property you get investors buying to turn into a niche hotel. It's a big money investment.

Honestly OP I'm concerned that your not strong enough to have any contact with your DD and LB. At every turn you have minimised your DD actions claiming she is only doing LB bidding, but she is right there every time with the requests for money, with the emotional blackmail and manipulation, I would be messaging saying you can't lend them any money problems have come up unexpectedly and they will have to sort themselves out. This is like a horror story unfolding.

I would ask them if they have looked in England?
You are so sorry they are planning to move even further away, the chance of any meaningful relationships between you, her & GC are decreased.
It feels to you that she is burning all her bridges, ostracizing herself from all sources of support....(& work)
Then expecting you not only to be enthusiastic, but also assist financing it.
You are sorry, but you can't condone this. You are not their cash cow

Good luck and enjoy with your time with DD1, OP. I hope you’re able to enjoy yourself and take some time to rest when you’re not together. X

Hope the visit is going well chopin

Thank you, it's been a strange and slightly surreal couple of days.

So, yesterday, we went on the family outing, all very relaxed, delightful, I get on really well with DGDs, lucky with the weather, LB seems quite warm and welcoming. I go back to the hotel feeling positive, as much as I can, given that is the first time in an awfully long time I have stayed anywhere without DH. But thinking it had been a good day. LB and DD1 both said a great day etc.

The PIL couldn't see me as, sadly, their dog is on his last legs, so we exchange friendly messages. They say how much LB and DD1 enjoyed yesterday.

Today, I go to lunch with DD1, which we both very much enjoyed. At her suggestion, I go to her house first, so she can drive me to the restaurant. I am there no more than 10 minutes, LB is civil, the DGDs and the dogs are all delighted to see me. I chat to LB, all seems ok.

Then I have lunch with DD1. Apparently LB thinks I hate him, that yesterday was good, but he doesn't want to see me too often. He still has a fear that if anything happened to DD1, I might try to take the DGDs from him. I say that I just want to move forward, that I don't hate anyone, that I just want her and her family to be happy.

She is honest with me, stresses how LB adores her and the DGDs, which he does, and I say yes, we are on the same side, I just want family harmony. I say that I love her and a falling in love with the DGDS, but I don't want to be hurt again if LB decides I can't see the DGC. DD1 says he is not like that, he is kind, loves animals etc. She said she feels most loyalty to him, but she said how much she loved and misses DH. She said LB liked DH and 'had no problem with him'.

We discussed the circumstances in which I asked LB to leave the house those years ago. I said I was protecting her, and that she and LB would protect their DDs in similar circumstances. She said maybe, she didn't know. I said especially considering the background of a previous abusive relationship. She has not told LB about this. She said she felt she was to blame, I said nobody is to blame, but we need to move forward.

I was disappointed by all this, said maybe I should talk to LB. she says she doesn't want to be in the middle, I should set a time to talk to him or it won't happen, that it will take a long time, not just half an hour. I say I don't understand the chronology of it all and she doesn't disagree. She cut off contact because the conflict was too upsetting and hard to deal with, but she doesn't expect it to happen again. We agreed that it was progress.

DD1 says they have problems with PIL. They are heartbroken that they are leaving but DD1 thinks they will mainly miss the DGDS. LB thinks they haven't helped out as much as they should, they haven't seen FIL in a long time. He and LB and his father are all quite anti-social. They are only prepared to have the DGDS once a week.

The inheritance money has come through, they have increased their offer, they want to leave asap.

We went back to the house after lunch, but I had to wait half an hour for a taxi. The DGDS were delighted to see me, cuddling up to me, an instant bond between us, really. LB went to his workshop and wasn't going to say goodbye. I went to see him, said how lovely to see him etc, trying to resolve issues, no argument, but still a huge gulf, which I fear will never be resolved.

I feel exhausted!

Very exhausting!!

LB again thinks parents should do x y z and is now punishing them by moving a way

They want to live in their co-dependent little bubble.

I wonder whether they have requested some financial help from LB’s parents and they’ve said no. Now they’re being punished by taking the children away.

It’s difficult to see that DD1 wants family harmony like you do. She seems content and dragging “get out of the house-gate” on forever.

Does she think that the PILs don’t do enough either? Having the children once per week is much more than some grandparents. I wonder how they would cope when they’re in Ireland on their own.

It would have been interesting to see what kind of conversation you would have had with LBs parents.

I’m pleased to hear that it went reasonably well and it sounds like you upheld boundaries and there was no money talk. X

I'm glad there were some positives and nice time with DD1 and GD's ❤️❤️❤️

I honestly don't think you will ever work things out with LB, he clings so fiercely onto this past incident, even after talking it through. I would not give this more air time on your side, it will likely never be resolved for him and is not worth any more of your time and headspace. DD1 has also enabled him to keep firm hold of his offence at something that was YEARS ago and also fully explainable. Even if he didn't want to forget, he should have forgiven and be water under the bridge.

So LB is cross with his parents and then the Ireland plan comes out... he certainly has a MO 'type' and again DD1 enables him with this.

You’ll never win with LB. no point in trying. Life is too short

Sounds like his parents have woken up

Oh op. Reading that, it was all about him wasn't it. What about your hurt? The comment about him having no issue with your DH is awful too, and easy to say now isn't it?

I don't know, I really don't like the sound of that conversation. It sounds very choreographed and manipulative.

I also think you were kept away from the inlaws on purpose.

Did they say anything more about their hairbrained scheme, benefits, taxes etc? Why Ireland?

Guard your heart here for your own sake.

Then I have lunch with DD1. Apparently LB thinks I hate him, that yesterday was good, but he doesn't want to see me too often

Doesn't want anything to do with you, but happy enough to take your money. They are both laying the manipulation on thick aren't they. No problem with your DH, eh call me cynical but that seemed like a pointed comment to really hit where it hurts, when you are most vulnerable too. I would be so angry at the pair of them.

Well done Chopin.

You must be absolutely overwhelmed and exhausted as this is the culmination of years and years of emotional pain and tension coming to a relatively settled place.

And it’s you who has persisted to lead it to this calm place through unfathomable challenges.

This is as good as it is ever going to get. It seems that your relationship with DD1 has restored to a level sufficient that you can have an open and honest conversation. You have built trust with her and this is gold. This is a big shift for you both and you should be proud of yourself.

But NEVER drop your guard.

The “throwing out of the house” is an overblown and disproportionate shadow is both a red-herring and a stick to beat you with.

It’s all about HIM being emotionally rigid, deficient, stuck, resentful and contemptuously holding a grudge. It’s all about him and his paranoia. His DGF, DF and himself all have the same organic PD. They are all genetically brown bears (as PP identified) - this is how they operate in society - obtuse, contrary, vexatious.

It has nothing to do with you that he is still holding on to this and he thinks you hate him.

Swipe away any notions of trying to win his approval or “forgiveness” by constantly apologising for the “incident” years ago and demonstrating that you don’t hate him.

Any mother would do it again and again and again. It’s weird and controlling that they have requested you to spend a long time churning through this with him - I suspect it’s just another opportunity to punish and emotionally abuse you - making you wriggle like a worm on a hook.

Don’t engage - don’t walk into that trap.

It’s futile - he doesn’t want to make amends (just look at the patterns in his whole life and those of his DF and DGF) - don’t fall for this nonsense.

Be indifferent to him and his demands - just be quietly joyous that you have your DD1 on side (for now). That’s more than enough - just build on that subtlety.

Know that he is totally irrelevant and intractable. All that matters is that through sheer hard work you have established an authentic connection with your DD1.

No surprise that he has fallen out with his own DF

”LB thinks they haven't helped out as much as they should, they haven't seen FIL in a long time. He and LB and his father are all quite anti-social. They are only prepared to have the DGDS once a week.”

Just another spectacular example of narcissistic delusional and entitled behaviour. This donkey hasn’t worked a day in his life, has ponced cash off family, relentlessly scammed and exploited government (tax payers) funds but expects others to looks after his own two DCs when neither of them are in paid employment.

Take it easy now. Lots of processing to do. You have climbed Everest emotionally. Be proud of what you have achieved but take time to recuperate. Don’t get too involved in their plans to move away. Let them just crack on. I hope that you can take strength and comfort that things are “good enough” with DD1 for now. She has communicated that she feels loved and safe (for now) so maybe take a deep breath / sigh of relief and be satisfied that she is in touch and there is an opportunity for a bit better (though far from normal or fulfilling) experience with your DD1 and DGDs.

Look at the lives of his mother and grandmother and the family relationships that they have intact or not as this might give you a good clue as to how her life and your relationship will pan out.

Tread carefully.

Very clever of him to be sweet and charming at the beginning then become increasingly cold and distant to allow DD to tell the story of what happens when grandparents don’t do as he wishes. You’re going Round the Mulberry Bush again with this story. You are not allowed to express YOUR feelings about LB. You are not allowed to point out HIS behaviour. Then telling you that the grandparents aren’t playing nice, so they’re being denied contact… AHEM!

Why on earth would he think you’d try to take the dgds if anything happened to dd?

I think he’s paranoid, he’s clinging onto the leaving house incident and developing unlikely scenarios in his head and using them to further isolate his family. Definitely something not right there.

It’s also odd that dd gave a non reason for cutting contact. At the time there was no conflict, you’d had a nice visit with them, she’d given you a painting if I recall, I guess unless it all explodes and she leaves you’ll never know the truth there.

Despite this it does sound like you’ve had a good couple of days and I hope you’re able to process the good things even though there will always be undercurrents of distrust.

@Billybagpuss because that is the sort of thing he would do himself, isn't it? Also his source of income would run dry if anything happened to his wife so he's basically saying it's going to be pay-per-view if anything did happen. Of course that's very very unlikely but he obviously has it all planned. He is such a horrible person.

Yes @Sssloou all this 👍

What @Sssloou says...it's crazy that LB is being permitted to rehash & cling onto one incident...definitely don't meet with him to talk it through, he needs to get over it & move on, that's what adults do. Really pleased you had such a lovely time with the DGDs - well done for being brave. Hope you can have a restful few days now as the visit, although good in many ways, will have been emotionally exhausting

Sssloou has nailed it once again.

If a brown bear sits down with you and eats a bun, enjoy that experience. Treasure it. But remember, it is still a brown bear and you need to keep wearing your safety gear.

LB and I fear, your daughter have not changed. They currently want or expect to want things from you and are playing relatively nicely. You have (brilliantly) learnt strategies to deal with them and relate with them just as best can be done. They have not changed though. Keep your shields up.

Odd that your daughter felt the need to tell you all that, after a goid day, aa if SHE wanted to take you down a peg or two.

Listen, he's obviously vile, but your daughter is not far off. At this stage you need to focus on your two kids who do love and respect you. And who Dont see you as a cash cow.

Good day... As if.... Fat fingers

Absolutely no surprise that PIL are not receiving lots of praise. They will be refusing to do childcare when the parents aren’t working.