SIL and money issues

[ChopinandChampagne]

I recently lost my DH and I thought that it would be nice to give some money to my DGDs, both toddlers, to set aside for their future as a gift from him. Realistically, they will not remember him, but I thought that if they have some money to spend on travel or driving lessons or to help with their university costs or whatever, they would think of him and know how much he loved them, even though he didn't live to see them grow up.

I did some internet research and the suggestions were for a Junior Isa, which a parent would need to set up, and I would then pay into, and the child could access at 18. Alternatively, a savings account, which I would be able to set up as a grandparent, as long as I produce a copy of the birth certificate, which the child can access and take over at 16.

So far, so good and, I thought, relatively uncontroversial, so I suggested it to my DD and said that I wanted to give each of the DGDs £10k from DH and the options. I said that I wanted it to be a separate account and that suggested that she open a Junior Isa or that I should open a savings account. Her response was that she would have to discuss it with SIL and I said fine, thought no more it. Then, I sense that there is a bit of tension and DD says she wants to set up a telephone call with both her and SIL one evening, to discuss the matter after the DGDs are in bed. This was a text, so I reply saying fine, is now a good time, but DD said not, but we could schedule a couple of days later, but only if she has completed her coursework for her studies.

Then, a couple of days ago, I receive an email from SIL, from whom I never hear anything direct, advising me that if I really want to put money in an account, he will open one, but that he thinks that it is a bad idea, as inflation will erode the money. He thinks I should invest it in gold bullion or some other specific account (he says he has recently opened one for DD), and he provided links to various websites.

The tone of the email comes across, not as friendly advice, but telling me what to do. I have said that I will have a rethink, but I am worried about offending him if I don't follow his advice. I feel that he is trying to control how I invest the money. He refers to it as my wanting to invest for the DGD's future, which it is partly, but it is also about wanting the DGDs to remember or be reminded of DH. I don't really want to invest in bullion, as I think it's a bit volatile, and the idea of a bank account is that the DGDs would get the bank statements and maybe learn how to save.

Does anyone have any advice on how best to handle this diplomatically? There is quite a bit of history with SIL (Lobster Boy for those who remember my previous threads), but things are on a reasonably even keel at present and I currently have a good relationship with DD, which I don't want to upset. She says that there is no rush to decide how best to invest the money, it is important to get it right.

@starskey80

Odd that your daughter felt the need to tell you all that, after a goid day, aa if SHE wanted to take you down a peg or two.

Listen, he's obviously vile, but your daughter is not far off. At this stage you need to focus on your two kids who do love and respect you. And who Dont see you as a cash cow.

She said it to Chopin, to once again make her doubt herself.

Chopin had had a nice visit with DD1 an DGD's and had got too close to them so LB and DD1 had to make 'some think up' to create distance and doubt again.

I agree that both LB and DD1 are together in their treatment of their families. They only see both lots of parents for what the parents can do for them.

I suspect that now they have the money that the amount of contact will drop back to it was before,

Contact will drop down until he decides he wants a bigger 4th property with more land, of course,

Chopin, after they’ve been in Ireland a few months, if he’s using the data on the phone to surf the internet, the data bills on that phone contract will be huge, which you will be paying for. You need to check the contract and decide whether you want to continue funding it.

Be prepared for them to phone you in 6 months time looking for a bail out package. Can't see their idyllic dream lasting in the long run with neither of them working.

Also completely agree with PP, this is not all LB, your daughter is in on the emotional abuse as well. That's horrible to hear but he couldn't do it without her being complicit. She is not a victim in this. Just tread carefully and remember the bear analogy (great piece of advice). They are both bears and will not fundamentally change their natures however much you want them too.

@Gh0stontoast

Contact will drop down until he decides he wants a bigger 4th property with more land, of course,

Chopin, after they’ve been in Ireland a few months, if he’s using the data on the phone to surf the internet, the data bills on that phone contract will be huge, which you will be paying for. You need to check the contract and decide whether you want to continue funding it.

A very good point re the phone.

Apparently LB thinks I hate him, that yesterday was good, but he doesn't want to see me too often.

But that doesn't stop them gouging you for money at every hands turn. And have you paying the phone bill.

I feel so much for you. You don't need any of this stress, on top of your grief. Mind yourself.

It’s hard for me to add much, to the great advice and insights you’ve been given so far. But yeah super excellent point about the phone. I am amused at people’s perceived entitlement to childcare, they chose to have children and why should other people be forced to assist?!

Very exhausting couple of days but well done for getting through another first without your DH.

Agree with recent posters. You will never be welcomed with open arms by LB there will always be a "but"

My god he holds a grudge!
I wonder if he does the same to DD1?

How does DD1 think life will be in Ireland? Did she discuss how she will manage with 3 children and no support?

He (they) just enjoy rocking the boat - it’s a constant push / pull, give / take to unsettle and destabilise you emotionally - so that you have no idea where you stand and are made anxious.

But you know his game. Drop the rope so that he (they) can’t keep yanking your chain.

Of course the Ireland escapade will go tits up …. and they will come with the begging bowl again. But they OWN two additional houses outright (assume will now rent out), have £60k cash in the bank from puppy farming, a six figure cash inheritance, have government funded postgraduate qualifications under their belts, live frugally etc ….. they have a lot of assets - they will be fine. @ChopinandChampagne just needs to keep mindful of her tightrope strategy to maintain a sufficient connection with her DD1 and DGDs whilst keeping herself emotionally protected and safe from LBs paranoia, abuse and manipulation. But more importantly to turn around and embrace and engage with, all of the love and support she has with all of the other (more) significant people in her life who cherish her dearly so that she can be supported through her painful grief.

Your daughter got her hands on the inheritance, got you to enjoy time with the grandchildren, took you out to a one on one situation and emotionally ambushed you ,once again, to drag up past grievances and make LB the victim. Honestly as bad as LB is (and I'm not minimizing his behavior) your daughter is worse IMO-you know you and your late husband loved her, reared her up in a warm and supportive home and she shits all over the olive branch, yet again! @starskey80 I agree

Yes, I really think the daughter is not a very nice person, I know that must be hard to accept as you sound like a wonderful, loving mother. And your dh sounded like a fantastic father.
But unfortunately despite the childhood you gave her she's one of lifes takers.

Accepting her for who she really is will help you protect yourself from her. She'd have no issue milking you dry and taking her sisters inheritance also.

Id cut back on the fake chitchats, they're draining you. Just send the odd text asking after the grandkids.

Your younger daughters sound lovely, and deserve your attention instead of DD1..... I only hope their own kids treat them similarly in years to come.

You may also find that when your other DDs have partners and kids then you'll face a whole new level of competition/guilt tripping from DD1/LB. At the moment they hold the cards with respect to GC, this will change and might not be entirely positive. Appreciate that this is probably way off yet but the foundation of boundaries you lay now will be what may protect you in the future.

Its really hard as a mother to deal with this uncomfortable truth about your child, but just remember none of this would have happened without the endorsement of DD1. She can't put all of it onto LBs feelings controlling the situation. The line she said about LB having no problem with your DH, she knew exactly what buttons she was pushing there and it was a very cruel and manipulative thing to say on her part.

Oh OP, I am so sorry to hear about the ongoing emotional blackmail meted out by your not so DD1. Deep down, you know this but she is just as complicit and responsible in your continuing abuse. She is massively gaslighting you. LB is on another level but this should not lull you into a false sense of closeness with DD1, she is trying to grind you down, so she can set you up for further exploitation. Her behaviour was totally cruel and you KNOW that you do not owe either of that pair an apology. It is amazing how they have twisted stuff, so instead of their outrageously bad behaviour being acknowledged, you are bending over backwards. You need to step back because it will eventually wear you down. You need to step away and apply a bit of grey rock. If your daughter genuinely loves you, she will make the effort. Without any financial incentive!

I’ve been following your threads right from the beginning OP.

It strikes me as your DD1 thoroughly enjoys creating drama. And she is incredibly entitled and is really trying to wring every last penny out of you.

You are attached to your DGC, despite saying your trying not to be, and your DD1 is trying to ensure you are with the constant phone calls and pictures etc.

If your DD1 felt at all that you were not a good parent she would not be ringing you for money constantly and sending you links to properties she couldn’t possibly afford.
I’m estranged from my parents because they were not nice to me and I’d sell a kidney before approaching them cap in hand. Your DD1 isn’t remotely upset with you she’s manipulating you for money.

You come across as treading on eggshells and constantly feeling like you have to tell your DD1 you love her even though frankly she is being vile to you. You’ve recently been bereaved of your DH and yes it is a loss for your DD1 too but she’s making it all about herself.

You are allowed to be grieving. You are allowed to be angry with your DD1 (she has and continues to behave appallingly).

I don’t know if you can step back from your DD1 as she’s your child and you feel like you need to do anything to appease her. But your other two DD’s loving you and being there for you deserve your attention more. Your DD1 has chosen her path. She’s made it clear you’re not welcome into her family. Let her get on with it. Be cordial and polite but she’s living her life quite happily.
I can’t imagine my MIL telling my DH she wants to visit and either of us not saying yes immediately and making firm plans. Whereas you have to wait anxiously and she disappears for days and then graciously agrees an audience with you. And even then when she barely sees you she can’t let the visit go without causing you upset. She’s done it every time you’ve visited (& you don’t visit often at all).

Don’t make yourself miserable trying to constantly appease her or her H. They’re clearly very happy in their set up. You’re the one who is suffering.
And seriously stop apologising for throwing LB out of your house when he was refusing to leave. You’ve apologised once, and it was justified, he was refusing to leave and your DD1 was locked in the bathroom hysterical. Any mother would have done the same.

@frazzledasarock Nailed it! Exactly, Please focus on your other wonderful DD, instead of giving your DD1 such disproportional attention. She has made your relationship with her and your DGC totally transactional and turning it into pay-per-view.

I've said before I am VLC with my parents the emotionally absent and I endured CSA which they were blind to (perhaps).

I never asked for a penny from them my priority was protecting my DC from them. I also invited them to both my weddings as I could not be so hurtful as to exclude them and it cost me to have them there.

OP I spent all of two hours engrossed in this thread and I wanted to say I am desperately sad for you. You sound like a wonderful and introspective person who talks factually and tries to see things from both sides.

I am sad for you because you're being used. Your daughter is not a nice person and I feel is using you for money. Cut yourself off financially, if she is still around then you'll be sure that she wants a genuine relationship.

I'm sorry you're being used like this. I wish my mum was as kind as you sound.

Such insightful postings on this thread yet again from wise Mumsnetters.

I'm afraid to say if DD1 was my daughter I'd be going very low contact.
Unless the scales fall from her eyes re LB, you will never get past zero in a relationship with her and your gc.
It's all about the money with the pair of them. Grasping. Yuck.
Your DD1 can't handle the truth. It's the elephant in the room. You have to subvert your true feelings when communicating / dealing with the pair of them.
That's so stressful.
Watching what you say.
How your words will be twisted.
Why put yourself through that so often ?

You deserve so much better, @ChopinandChampagne

I too am VLC with my DM....I barely hear from her now the £ has stopped. My DC don't know their GM but I'm happier knowing the truth, and counseling helped me get to grips with it all.
The family I do have love me with no strings or demands and came good in difficult times and when I was deep in grief for my DF.
As I said before my will is done and sealed, and I feel better knowing that's that.
I had to move on, the push me pull me game was dreadful and exhausted me.
I am sad for my own DC, but we built our own family.
Your other DC need you and in the gentlest way it may well be time to concentrate on them now x

Gosh, thanks everyone, so much good advice. Sorry not to have replied for a couple of days, but I have been staying with my friend and we were quite busy, in a low key sort of way.

We went to dinner with my goddaughter, her husband and adorable baby daughter one evening, visited some lovely gardens, walked the dogs, spent a lot of time chatting etc. She lost her DH a year before I did, as well as her brother and best friend, but is being incredibly resilient and was very supportive and encouraging. So I am now on my way back home, where I suspect I will have a long rest, whilst I try to process everything.

I was disappointed that LB is still nursing a grudge after he had seemed quite friendly on the family day out. DD1 was at least being honest with me, and would like harmony, but feels that is up to me and LB. She made it clear that her first loyalty is to him and doesn't seem to show much independence of mind. I said to her that of course the first loyalty is to LB and her DC, but that she should still have some loyalty to her original family.

I don't think she was being manipulative, and I agree with Sssloou, as always, that this was progress. We enjoyed our time together and she wanted to give me a lift both ways, as she said it would give us extra time to talk. We didn't just talk about LB, but about lots of things. She thoroughly enjoyed going out for lunch, especially as she and LB never go out to eat. He feels uncomfortable and doesn't enjoy it at all. PIL are the same, so LB never went out as a child. DD1 said their upbringings were totally different, but agreed with my view that we have a duty to support the hospitality industry

Regarding the PIL, it was definitely genuinely a case of their not being able to see me because of their dog's terminal condition. DD1 was a bit contradictory when she spoke of them, saying that they had always loved her and treated her like a daughter, but then said that she and LB had issues with them. LB is apparently in favour of family supporting each other and feels that there are various things which PIL could have done to help, but haven't.

I think LB is deliberately holding on to his grudge against me, as it is a convenient excuse not to have to put up with me too often, which he probably wouldn't have wanted to do anyway. I got the impression that he had agreed to the family day out and to DD1 going out to lunch (needless to say, DD1 had precooked a lasagne and was giving him detailed instructions about how to heat it, when DGC1 had to have a nap etc. We also almost missed our table reservation, as she felt obliged to change DGD2's nappy before we went).

However, I got the impression that my going to the house was in excess of what he had sanctioned, so he was put out that I stayed at the house for half an hour when we got back. Hence his going off to his workshop without saying goodbye (although I went to say goodbye to him and it was all tense again, not like the previous day). Whilst I was playing with the DGDS, DD1 was anxiously watching out of the window for the taxi, rather than joining in. She had specifically offered to watch for the taxi and I sense that she was also tense, and was relieved when it arrived.

On a more positive note, she seemed pleased at the prospect of my visiting them in Ireland. She said she knows I will visit, but thinks that the PIL probably won't very often, as they don't really travel very much. She also spoke fondly about our last family holiday to Thailand (which was after 'housegate') which she remembers as a wonderful and just before the family came apart. Coincidentally, I had found a photograph of her with her sisters on a tour, which I gave to her. She remembered every detail.

In conclusion, it was a bit 'curate's egg', but with some definite positives, especially spending that half hour with the DGDs, when they really warmed to me, and I felt that a bond was formed. I just need to hold onto that, and to now step back for a while, to leave them to get on with their move.

And I can't wait to get home!

Oh OP, you are settling for crumbs. Your DD1's behaviour is so appalling that you are almost celebrating for the tiniest halfway decent things she does.

Just so you know you are going to get tapped up for removal costs, and will be expected to bring lots of stuff over for them when you visit (and you won’t be repayed for anything!!), not to mention all the “projects” that will need a cash injection!

That’s if they get the house (part of me thinks it’s a disaster buying unseen and getting caught up in a bidding war)

Chopin, I do always want to see the best in your DD and I’m sure others will put a more sensible and measured take on it all.

If she was anxious having pushed the boundaries of you going to the house she must know she’s being controlled. I do hope she is able to process it over time and find a way back.

I am glad you managed the trip it all sounds very hard.
Your update today touched on your time with friends/ baby/ walking dogs and it seemed very easy and normal.
But when you reflect on the visit to DD1, there is so much trying to work out what is going on, how to just be.
Personally, I think YOU have far more reason to hold a grudge! Being denied the chance to go to wedding/ access to GC!
Yes, I think you really do minimise her actions and see the good in her when in reality, she is a cruel daughter. You deserve so much more.
They are still playing the long game, keeping you sweet until such a time it will be they demand money in Ireland, 'for the DGC'.
The grooming is financial abuse pure and simple.
I feel that you need to make it clear that your money is tied up for 5 to 10 years in the event they try to squeeze you again. Make it clear.
Chopin, its very hard. My adult son is a narcissist and although I love him, I no longer enable him, or his choices. He too rewrote history, and was financially abuse. One day, I just stopped. Stopped making excuses and pulled away. Its sad. Its painful, but ultimately it cant be changed, until he does.
He reminds me of LB and DD1. Not working, always grabbing easy money, brings up shit from years ago and is manipulative and abusive.
But its not a reflection of me.
If DD1 was a friends daughter what would you think? In allowing her to continually abuse you, you really are saying its ok.
I hope you have the strength to tell her, the visit was hard, and that you will not have the past continually used as a stick to beat you with. That you want to be respected and the cruelty needs to stop.
I do not know what its going to take to see her for what she is now. I hope its not at the expense of your other DDs. Prodigal daughter just does not deserve that much attention x

I don't think you'll every have a good relationships with lb. He needs to control everyone, so keeping you on this knife edge of 'can I see them/speak to them/talk on ft' etc keeps you where he wants you. Eventually you'll be so desperate you'll pay for the pleasure.

Re you dd, I have to admit I don't fully understand her. I agree she's being controlled but her behaviour seems to have been 'manipulative' before he was on the scene.

If we were sat together over a brew I'd say, she won't change and he definitely won't change.

They're now playing the same game with his parents.

You'll have to harden your heart I'm afraid. And I think it'd be easier if you weren't drawn into her daily drama over texts. That takes a lot of your headspace and sets you back I feel. A simple text conversation with your child shouldn't need advice for you. She's messing with your head sadly, and you need to fix you first.

The above was meant kindly