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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

SIL and money issues

1000 replies

ChopinandChampagne · 24/01/2021 13:01

I recently lost my DH and I thought that it would be nice to give some money to my DGDs, both toddlers, to set aside for their future as a gift from him. Realistically, they will not remember him, but I thought that if they have some money to spend on travel or driving lessons or to help with their university costs or whatever, they would think of him and know how much he loved them, even though he didn't live to see them grow up.

I did some internet research and the suggestions were for a Junior Isa, which a parent would need to set up, and I would then pay into, and the child could access at 18. Alternatively, a savings account, which I would be able to set up as a grandparent, as long as I produce a copy of the birth certificate, which the child can access and take over at 16.

So far, so good and, I thought, relatively uncontroversial, so I suggested it to my DD and said that I wanted to give each of the DGDs £10k from DH and the options. I said that I wanted it to be a separate account and that suggested that she open a Junior Isa or that I should open a savings account. Her response was that she would have to discuss it with SIL and I said fine, thought no more it. Then, I sense that there is a bit of tension and DD says she wants to set up a telephone call with both her and SIL one evening, to discuss the matter after the DGDs are in bed. This was a text, so I reply saying fine, is now a good time, but DD said not, but we could schedule a couple of days later, but only if she has completed her coursework for her studies.

Then, a couple of days ago, I receive an email from SIL, from whom I never hear anything direct, advising me that if I really want to put money in an account, he will open one, but that he thinks that it is a bad idea, as inflation will erode the money. He thinks I should invest it in gold bullion or some other specific account (he says he has recently opened one for DD), and he provided links to various websites.

The tone of the email comes across, not as friendly advice, but telling me what to do. I have said that I will have a rethink, but I am worried about offending him if I don't follow his advice. I feel that he is trying to control how I invest the money. He refers to it as my wanting to invest for the DGD's future, which it is partly, but it is also about wanting the DGDs to remember or be reminded of DH. I don't really want to invest in bullion, as I think it's a bit volatile, and the idea of a bank account is that the DGDs would get the bank statements and maybe learn how to save.

Does anyone have any advice on how best to handle this diplomatically? There is quite a bit of history with SIL (Lobster Boy for those who remember my previous threads), but things are on a reasonably even keel at present and I currently have a good relationship with DD, which I don't want to upset. She says that there is no rush to decide how best to invest the money, it is important to get it right.

OP posts:
Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 06/08/2021 09:30

No no no! Never agree to a forged signature. Totally fraudulent and illegal. If they got thrown oout of Ireland they would blame you. They could be using mobile phone contract as proof also.
Please let them deal with this barrier themselves. Triangulating between you and PIL is getting out of hand. Shows you how little they respect you to even ask you to do something so potentially illegal.
Please do not alliw your vulnerability and desperation for peace with them incriminate you.

Justilou1 · 06/08/2021 09:31

You’re right… also they could use THAT email to “prove” that she had approved POA. Ring them and make it clear that no other signatures are happening.

GullyGull · 06/08/2021 09:38

Yep, I'd bet LB would be doing cartwheels with that little gem in his back pocket.

OP you need to tread very carefully with BOTH of them. Not just LB. Its good you've sorted you will out.

Really feel for you with all you've been through but reading through your posts this is as much her as it is him Sad

GullyGull · 06/08/2021 09:42

Is it just me or does LB remind you of Ian Bailey Sad

JonahofArk · 06/08/2021 09:50

OP you are in an abusive relationship with your daughter. I'm sorry to say it but it's true. Every interaction is transactional, she is manipulative and she is prepared to forge your signature and involve you in fraud.

Step back and think about all of this for a moment. This is not LB doing this - it's your daughter. I know that's difficult to accept but you need to take a massive step back here.

Are you not exhausted by all this? By this constant talk of money? Of stuff that happened years ago? Are you not tired of constantly treading on eggshells? Of never knowing where you stand? This situation sounds so draining and I suspect is beginning to have an impact on your other relationships whether you realise it or not.

Your daughter is an adult. She has made the decisions she has. You do not need to save her, let her get on with it. These overwrought conversations and situations need to end.

burnoutbabe · 06/08/2021 10:12

You can sign something and then send it tracked 24 hours.

Never allow anyone to knowingly forge your signature.

For most things, a professional who is also related to you can't do the signature for things like passports. I can't for it my fiancé but I could for the people next door I have known for 2+ years.

Gh0stontoast · 06/08/2021 10:27

The estate agent has got them on the hook, over the original asking price, for a ruined property. They will wait, there’s no rush.

burnoutbabe · 06/08/2021 10:50

Also from reading, you get a national insurance number once you are resident. Not beforehand.

So who knows what they are asking you to sign. Though I suppose they could just forge your signature on whatever document without asking anyway.

Notaroadrunner · 06/08/2021 11:42

@JonahofArk

OP you are in an abusive relationship with your daughter. I'm sorry to say it but it's true. Every interaction is transactional, she is manipulative and she is prepared to forge your signature and involve you in fraud.

Step back and think about all of this for a moment. This is not LB doing this - it's your daughter. I know that's difficult to accept but you need to take a massive step back here.

Are you not exhausted by all this? By this constant talk of money? Of stuff that happened years ago? Are you not tired of constantly treading on eggshells? Of never knowing where you stand? This situation sounds so draining and I suspect is beginning to have an impact on your other relationships whether you realise it or not.

Your daughter is an adult. She has made the decisions she has. You do not need to save her, let her get on with it. These overwrought conversations and situations need to end.

I agree with this. You need to put yourself first and back away from this completely dysfunctional relationship that your dd has created. I wouldn't lend them a penny - do you really believe you'll see it again if you do? I wouldn't trust them as far as I'd throw them.
rhnireland · 06/08/2021 11:57

I just wanted to add that there should be no need to forge your signature. I am Irish and basically anyone can sign (I have gotten forms like that signed by the police, my daughters teacher, a pharmacist )

I do think for your own sake and that of your other 2 daughters you need to take a step back. You have made every effort to reconcile and I think your daughter needs to do her bit.

OrangeBlossomsinthesun · 06/08/2021 12:52

I think this request to forge your signature is a red flag.
It's not even so much about money that you might give them now but about what kinds of mad shit they might embroil you in without your knowing.

I know you want to think the best of your DD but whether she is complicit or controlled by LB, the end result is the same, she is treating you apallingly.

You need to back way off and let her get on with it. it will all implode one way or another in years to come. If it's all down to LB she'll come back to you, but you need to make sure she doesn't take you down in the meantime.

AtillatheHun · 06/08/2021 14:55

So the PILs (whose photographs were all over the house and at all the early life events of the dgds) have now been cast aside - they’ve refused to hand over their money and have failed to ask how high when LB asked them to jump. They’re cutting themselves off further and further simply because their endless demands aren’t met. With that, the puppy farming and vegan-turned- butchers they are displaying very unpleasant personality traits. Your other daughters have the measure and are protecting themselves by listening to their instincts; what I don’t know is how you establish a form of contact with the DGDs so that they know you’re there for them when they are older. I’d be fascinated to hear the ILa version at this stage.

LifeInAHamsterWheel · 06/08/2021 15:11

Oh my goodness if you do nothing else, please call or text her (if you haven't already done so) and make it clear that they are not to forge your signature on that or any document. Not one person on this thread thinks that's a good idea. In 'normal' circumstances I would still advise against it, but with the backdrop of everything that's happened and what you know about LB (and unfortunately your DD1) you absolutely need to tread with extreme caution on this. Shocking that they actually asked up front, but at least now that they have, you can put in writing that they are NOT to do it. As others have said, red flags Shock

TellingBone · 06/08/2021 15:56

I haven't commented before but have read your threads OP.

I think it's time now, with this latest development asking you to agree to law-breaking, to stop pussyfooting around them for the sake of the few crumbs they deign to throw you. Your daughter needs wise counsel as she is already a long way down a rocky road. In the long term hopefully she will thank you for it.

REignbow · 06/08/2021 16:10

Why are you being so passive in regards to this?

Where is your anger?

They have asked YOU to break the law!

They had every opportunity to ask you to sign something whilst you visited them, but they didn’t. All your DD did was emphasis that her priority was to that dick head LB and to reiterate that he had an issue with you (and not your DH).

Stop playing a part in their drama and concentrate on your two other daughters. It doesn’t surprise me that they have little/no relationship with DD1 (it was me that asked you this). Why do you think this is?

They see your DD1 and Lb for what they are: spiteful, mean, abusive, lazy and greedy opportunists.

legosunqueen · 06/08/2021 18:52

This latest development is really concerning, it's tantamount to abuse to ask you to do illegal things when you are vulnerable & the implicit threat of no contact with your DGDs hangs over you.

I recommend that you refuse to do anything that supports the move & explain that you are not supportive of the move because of the isolation it will mean for your DD & her DCs. Seriously, at this point it feels like you have very little to lose...will they let you visit them there anyway even if you help?

Do her sisters & the wider family know what's going on with DD1 & LB? I hope you have some real life support.

CharityDingle · 06/08/2021 23:50

Can only wish you all the best, OP.

I appreciate it's very difficult but can't help feeling that you are ignoring all input here, and far more seriously, ignoring advice in real life.

Hope things work out well for your other daughters, in all of this.

Billybagpuss · 07/08/2021 05:54

I do remember possibly in one of your previous threads you mentioned something about the property being solely LB name. Have I remembered this correctly? Does dd now have any name on the properties. Will her name be on the Irish one especially as it’s largely her inheritance financing it?

NeilBuchananisBanksy · 07/08/2021 07:44

@CharityDingle

Can only wish you all the best, OP.

I appreciate it's very difficult but can't help feeling that you are ignoring all input here, and far more seriously, ignoring advice in real life.

Hope things work out well for your other daughters, in all of this.

I agree sadly.

OP, you say you think your daughter needs you. But to all of us outsiders looking in, she only needs you for money etc etc. Transactional and you will be cast off. The signature request is crazy and fraudulent, where is your anger? You are being used here and they are using your grief. It's despicable.

Part of me wonders if the signature thing has been masterminded by LB to engineer another falling out- it's such a crazy request you'll obviously say no so it's another stick to beat you with. Especially now they have their inheritance.

RandomMess · 07/08/2021 08:03

I wonder if they divorced in Eire if marital assets work the same? If the property is in LB name would DD still be entitled to 50% as a starting point of asset splitting.

tribpot · 07/08/2021 08:35

I do think that DD1 needs me. She doesn't seem to have anyone else in her life to talk to apart from LB and she has one friend in the village, whose DC are the same age.

But this is what she has chosen. It's not a problem for you to solve for her.

This drama is going to go on for months and (of course) @Sssloou is right, they are setting you up to be to blame when the sale falls through. Now that they feel they have got you on side, they are going to exploit you even whilst they continue to punish you for perceived past transgressions. Please be very, very wary.

CraftyYankee · 07/08/2021 11:20

You are too available to DD1 at her convenience while she gives you nothing in return. At one of the hardest times of your life it is still all about her.

Don't give more than you already have, in time, energy, or money. They will drain you dry of as much as you will give and not look back.

Cedilla · 07/08/2021 12:51

Forgive me if I'm completely wrong but I have a memory of reading this on one of your earlier threads, Chopin - were you in the legal profession at one point?

It would be totally unacceptable anyway for them to pressure you to do this, but if I'm remembering correctly and the law was your former profession, it would also be a kind of betrayal of your previous self. I think you're not working now but regardless, this request for a forged signature gives me a very, very bad feeling indeed.

Obviously ignore me if I'm wrong about this.

But of course, it IS playing right into the hands of LB. You need to be true to yourself here, not give him even a millimetre of leverage by stooping to something so dodgy. It feels as though they're stepping up the pressure in a very calculated way and like everyone else, I feel very concerned for you.

RandomMess · 07/08/2021 13:22

With hindsight you can see DD1 has picked up contact with you at the same time the one laws became out of favour and she probably withdrew from them to support LB or because she was pressurised to.

LadyEloise1 · 07/08/2021 14:36

Brilliant posts from @JonahofArk and @REignbow.

I'm not sure you take on board what wise Mumsnetters write on this thread.
You are just too nice ( to DD1 and her family ).
She is totally self centred ( with LB ), grasping and manipulative.
She needs to learn that actions have consequences.
Her children will probably never bother with you or their aunts ( dd2 and dd3 ) as LB will have sullied your names Sad

Forging your signature Shock
How blo*dy dare they.

This sounds really harsh ( to a lovely lady ) but please have sense, cop on and STOP ENABLING them.

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