How do you view 'the wife'?

[EpochTime]

Can I ask those posters who have had an affair - how do you view 'the wife'? I'm intrigued by the recent threads about going NC because often, when I read them, I wonder about the wife in these scenarios. What sort of person she is, where she is and what she might be doing when the affair is taking place, that sort of thing. References to the wife as a person are rare in threads written by those having affairs. I just have an intellectual curiosity - this is not designed to be an antagonistic post.

I find interesting that some of the wives on this thread appear to have wanted to OW to have thought badly of them, to have justified it to themselves. Does that feel better than knowing the OW didn't think of you at all?

Like I said upthread, I know exactly what she thought of me, and what they said about me because I had the joy of reading every message, and then her 'it kills me to think I've done this to another woman but she must have known the marriage wasn't real' messages to her friends, which found their way to me.

I know she spent a lot of time thinking about me, from how often she looked at my LinkedIn profile and from how many spam instagram accounts she set up to request to follow me. I know when she found out we had a mutual friend, she asked questions about me.
I also know how furiously angry she was when she found out that far from the celibate marriage she had kidded herself I had, I was actually pregnant when they were caught out, so there must have been an element of her using the 'sexless marriage' narrative to justify her actions, or she wouldn't have got so cross when she realised it wasn't true

Not sure if this is common but I have two friends who have each had affairs with married men and the impression I get is that their ' neediness' to be in a relationship overrides any feelings of guilt or remorse towards the wives. Both portrayed the APs wife in derogatory terms based on what they had been told by their AP although neither met the wives.

Friend one hung onto her AP for years and had a fantasy going that she would end up as an 'aunty' figure to his children. His family lived in another country in the UK so they spent a lot of time together as he worked away from home most of the week. However, from what I could see there was little relationship for my friend as she paid for everything, never went on holiday with him, he never treated her at Christmas and birthdays and she did all the running around. It came to an end when she realised he was planning to keep the set up going when he retired and was never going to leave his wife. She started to 'cheat' on him until she met her husband, dumped her AP and moved her new man in.

Friend two has had a series of affairs with married men and again influenced by what she has been told. One long term affair was cheating on his partner who was undergoing treatment for breast cancer. If you ask her why she goes for married men she will state that these are the only men attracted to her. She accepts them as a default to the dearth of available single men in her mind. Again there is little relationship other than the sex.

I used to have a friend who would go for attractive attached men, and once they had showed her enough interest would move on to the next one.

That's interesting. I do wonder if it is the insecurity of the other person outside the marriage that sometimes drives the affair rather than a desire to break up the marriage. The wife just doesn't fìgure at all in their psyche. Doesn't make it any less painful for the betrayed partner though.

Same as what a few people have touched on - I simply didn't think about her. Humans do this all the time, it's why you don't let yourself think about the children in sweatshops making your clothes and the slaves picking your food.

I've noticed on MN that a lot of posters seem to talk about the OW as if that is all that there is to their identity. 'I just don't understand why a woman would have an affair with a married man'. Really? Can you really not think of any reason at all? It may sound obvious to say, but we are only the OW to you, outside of that we are individual people with complex lives, same as everyone else. When I was seeing the engaged guy I was very young whilst he was middle aged and I was in an extremely dark, vulnerable time in my life. I had sex with him because I was looking for something to numb the pain. My mind was on me, not a woman I had never met before. This isn't because I'm a narcissist, it's because it's human nature to consider your own needs above those of someone who means nothing to you.

Was it objectively wrong? Of course it was; and I'm not trying to play down what I did, I know there are many people who have better morals than me and would simply never entertain the idea. Now that I'm older and wiser I certainly would never do it again and I regret that I was involved in another person's pain. Like I said though, humans are constantly pushing the ugly truth away, constantly. At the time, escaping my shite life for a moment was more important to me than taking more responsibility for a man's marriage than the man himself.

@tenbob. I'm also aware the the OW thought a lot about me. Reason? I knew about the relationship long before I found out officially, because she constantly came up on my recommended friend list on Facebook, when I went on his page. I asked a geeky friend about this, who understood the Facebook algorithm more than me. He said that she had come up a lot because she was stalking my profile, and Facebook thought we should be friends. Our common friend was my ex, hence why she appeared in the recommendation on his page. Later on, I found she had blocked me. Weirdly.

So yes, I clearly played on her mind, for whatever reason.

I'm probably coming at this from a slightly different angle but when I met my AP, he was single, I wasn't. I was the one working part time, cooking, cleaning, looking after our child. I had been unhappy for a while. There was flirtation that happened and that ended up in an affair. A month in he met someone else, we stopped but stayed in contact and a few months later it started again.

I never felt able to leave because of finances and our child.

I don't hate her, I never thought she was right for him but its horribly difficult, I wish we'd done it differently and both been single before it happened but I didn't feel strong enough to leave. She's not a monster, she deserves better from both of us. My OH is very, very far from perfect and has let me down over the years in more ways than one, but I still want to leave with the least possible pain to all parties. I will leave regardless of situation with AP, but currently there are no houses on the rental market and I've only just got to the point I can afford it.

@EpochTime I think for some it is about denying the ‘personhood’ of the wife.
She either becomes a 2d character or is just blanked out. All ways to diminish her humanity and range.
It’s a psychological defence against guilt..

In my case I was not looking for a relationship but I met a man who I was highly sexually attracted to and he me. We had an affair for over a year . How did I view the wife ? TBH she didn't really figure too much in my mind as he didn't talk about her at first . I did see her eventually with him and they both looked unhappy . I found out that she was working when he used to see me. As time went on he began to leak more about their life . She had cheated with him when he was married . He was obviously well versed in lying and had cheated on her since starting seeing her . I felt sorry for her having such a husband if I'm honest . I eventually ended it as I was getting too emotionally involved . He still messages me from time to time wanting to resume.

@IWasHer How did you manage to end it when you had become so attached?

I was the other woman & I never really thought about her. He never bad mouthed her & still won’t to this day. He met her when he was 18 & he is now 51. He left the 30 year marriage & I left my 17 to be with him. She still absolutely adores him after everything.

*But I think it takes a certain level of cold-eyes psychopathy to be an OW who sees themselves as fulfilling a job in a 'best woman wins' situation, especially when there are children at stake.

But I suspect it largely comes down to deluding themselves that the wife should have tried harder if she really wanted to keep her husband for herself*

Iv been an OW and I didn’t see myself as fulfilling a job that the wife couldn’t/didn’t do. I simply didn’t care about her. She hardly crossed my mind.

I was fulfilling my own physical needs.

I used to just think of them boring or dowdy

If the wife/gfs did cross my mind then I also normally assumed the same. That they were Boring and a bit of a mug.

I had an affair with my boss in early 90s when I was 28 and had just split up with my boyfriend. Boss was 45, married with three children, and a serial cheater.

I was never comfortable about the affair which just felt seedy. Sounds like a cliche but he coerced me into it - we'd always got on well but I wasn't physically attracted to him. He tried it on with me and when I resisted he threatened to give my job as his PA - which I loved and was good at - to someone else.

I felt terrible about his wife who I knew and liked. I used to say "but what about Mary?" (not her real name) And he'd say "She's my problem not yours." I felt dreadful about what we were doing and eventually after 2 or 3 months I insisted the affair end. He tried the line about demoting me again and I said that perhaps it was time I left the company.

He didn't demote me and I worked as his PA for four more years - he tried it on with me numerous times after that but I always pushed him away. I always felt bad about his wife who I liked and felt sorry for. He painted her as dowdy and too caught up in domesticity which he of course, was far too superior for. I was young and the idea of children and all that domestic stuff bored me but he was the one who'd got married.

A few years later he had an affair with another girl in the company, split with his wife and had three more children with shiny new wife.
He rang me 3 years ago to tell me they'd now split up and invited me out for dinner. I'm happily married and turned him down.

His first wife is with a lovely man now and from what I can tell is very happy. I just hope she never found out about me.

@HOS8595

I used to just think of them boring or dowdy

If the wife/gfs did cross my mind then I also normally assumed the same. That they were Boring and a bit of a mug.

Like Beyonce and for Jay Z.

Boring and a bit of a mug?

Just goes to show the level of self entitlement, arogance, immaturity, and lack of empathy that goes on in some ow's heads.

I think it's called selfishness

But I think it takes a certain level of cold-eyes psychopathy to be an OW who sees themselves as fulfilling a job in a 'best woman wins' situation, especially when there are children at stake.

The woman I knew who had an affair crowed away about 'getting her man's. It appeared it was her ego that was at the forefront of her decisions. She saw something she wanted and got it despite his marriage. Like she'd won a huge prize because he couldn't resist her and broke his marriage vows for her.

Regarding other women believing all they are told about the wife it appears that we are all very willing to believe what we are told about others, especially the bad.

It is no different on Mumsnet, how quickly people to respond to posts about family members or friends with 'they sound vile', 'they are toxic', 'that's abuse' with no idea at all of what the truth is.

Our capacity to accept bullshit as truth is immense.

Boring and a bit of a mug?

Yes, I think it’s self explanatory.

Generally the men usually concut an elaborate story about the wife to the point the other woman feels for him. Every little frustration the husband feels is expressed which in turn makes the other woman as a general nurturer want to support him.
To be fair both women are none the wiser as he is pitting both of them against each other whilst absolving that he is truly the problem.

Plain and simple, if a man is unhappy in his marriage and wants to pursue daliances with another woman then he should end his current relationship. Excuses such as I am only staying for the kids or we have financial ties together are excuses.

Apart from my ex-friend.

I always thought OW didn't give the wives any thought, and any thought given was full of disdain.

I know the friend and also other friends who have considered having relationships with MM, are usually only thinking of themselves and their own situations. Ex friend certainly needed help with her DC and financial support she was really struggling, she was looking for love and validation. I think for the friend she had to demonise the wife as she sees herself as fundamentally a good person and the role of OW doesn't fit that view.

@Emeeno1

Regarding other women believing all they are told about the wife it appears that we are all very willing to believe what we are told about others, especially the bad.

It is no different on Mumsnet, how quickly people to respond to posts about family members or friends with 'they sound vile', 'they are toxic', 'that's abuse' with no idea at all of what the truth is.

Our capacity to accept bullshit as truth is immense.

Every single time I've thought or posted that the posters situation turns out to be really horrific and they're underplaying the abuse they're subject to or can't see it for themselves.

I think the difference between posters on here for example or friends accepting the friends version of their partners is that we don't expect to get any benefit from believing that. We're not wanting to jump into bed with the person telling us their woes.

It's different to an OW accepting the terrible wife narrative as OW then uses that to justify her behaviour.

I actually (perhaps oddly), never felt any rancour towards OW in my case, any feeling is only ever evoked when she tried to interfere in my children's contact hearing by blaming me for everything. Or when she hurt my DC.

Same as what a few people have touched on - I simply didn't think about her. Humans do this all the time, it's why you don't let yourself think about the children in sweatshops making your clothes and the slaves picking your food.
Good examples. The "not thinking about her at all" is surely the other side of the same coin to imagining the wife as dowdy or accepting the husband's explanation despite knowing it is a cliché. It's about not wanting to face the uncomfortable truth. And sure, some wives also prefer a more simplified view in which the OW is totally heartless. That's how we humans work, especially when we're hurt and feel under attack.

I've read or heard something somewhere about how human beings generally tend to see themselves as being more complex, and others as less so. I think it was in the context of political beliefs. Can't remember the name for it, though.

I actually (perhaps oddly), never felt any rancour towards OW in my case
Same here, I have to say. In my exh's case I knew for sure that what others have said was true - that if it hadn't been her it would have been someone else. He'd had a couple of trial runs before her. Plus, he lied to her about wanting children with her, which at her age must have been quite significant.
But easy for me to be OK about her, as I didn't have to have anything to do with her.

[quote wonderingaboutlife1]@sparechange

I can see the point you're making about the interview for the new job, and in some sense, it rings very true. Although in a lot of cases, I suspect there is a great deal of "head hunting" going on in this analogy.

You could call me an OW but I'm not sure I necessarily fit the profile. I had a close friendship with a MM, we talked about the problems within our marriages/things we'd been through with each other, spent some time together (for work) but never ever crossed that physical line. It developed in to a close friendship very quickly.

I didn't think we were doing anything wrong at the time, and still don't. She accused us of having an affair and we stopped contact. I lost a friend and realised I was more upset about that loss than I perhaps should have been. He feels the same. We're in limited contact about work and that is difficult.

I still have other male friends, their partners have no issue with me. I have no issue with my H having female friends.

I have met the wife, on several occasions, and I thought she was a nice person and they had a happy marriage. She was friendly, polite and funny. But after I learned on some of the ongoings in their marriage, I looked back on the time I spent with her and a lot of things that happened make a lot of sense.

She is absolutely convinced there was more going on than meets the eye, there wasn't. She is not happy that he chose to talk to someone about their marriage other than her. Is that a betrayal of trust or her trying to protect the facade she's worked so hard to create? She's told several people we've been having an affair and the repercussions have been huge. I spent a great deal of my time sticking up for her and fighting her corner.

My view of "the wife"? I feel angry at her for treating him like that. But mostly, I feel sorry for her that she cares so much about what everyone else thinks of her relationship instead of assessing whether or not she's truly happy. [/quote]
How arrogant.