How do you view 'the wife'?

[EpochTime]

Can I ask those posters who have had an affair - how do you view 'the wife'? I'm intrigued by the recent threads about going NC because often, when I read them, I wonder about the wife in these scenarios. What sort of person she is, where she is and what she might be doing when the affair is taking place, that sort of thing. References to the wife as a person are rare in threads written by those having affairs. I just have an intellectual curiosity - this is not designed to be an antagonistic post.

We don't need to hear what a bad person the wife is to sleep with their husband. It makes no difference because it's not about the wife it's about the man that we have feelings for. We don't need to be fed lies and feel sympathy for a man to sleep with him for gods sake.

But some women absolutely do.

ExH's OW said in all the messages between them that they had nothing to feel guilty about, that his marriage was already dead in all but legal status.
When he wavered about leaving, she reminded him over and over that I was a bad person who had broken my end of the bargain by not sleeping with him, by changing after DCs, and therefore he wasn't technically doing anything wrong.

If it wouldn't give me incandescent rage to read them again, I could cut and paste some of her missives onto the thread to give you some insights into how she justified it and what she must have thought of me.

He also span her the 'we don't have sex, she puts the DC ahead of me, I'm just a salary to her' line, and she fell for it, despite it all being untrue

Why do you ask, OP?

@tenbob but that sounds to me like she was saying what she could to persuade him to leave.
There is no justification for sleeping with another woman's husband. Even if the wife was as horrid as the husband portrayed then it still wouldn't justify it.
I can only speak of my own experience but I didn't need to hear any of that nonsense to make me continue, it was about him and never about her.

@briggd and although you may not need that to sleep with a married man, I'm pretty certain that played a role in this relationship, as it was his general narrative.

I can only speak of my own experience but I didn't need to hear any of that nonsense to make me continue, it was about him and never about her.

I think this is the really interesting point which gets missed on all conversations about affairs. I don't think about her - not because I'm cold or a narcissist or immoral - but because my head and heart are full of him. I want him in spite of his marriage, not because of it.

@ReggaePerrin

Why do you ask, OP?

My (much) younger self got up to all sorts. I had some casual things with men and I knew some of them had girlfriends and it didn't bother me. If I thought of the other women at all I am ashamed to say I used to just think of them boring or dowdy. But I was very young. Since getting married, ages ago (!) I must have morphed into a faithful wife. I didn't notice it happening, but when I now read about women engaging in affairs with married men, it bothers me. Perhaps it's historical guilt making me more concerned than I should be. But it doesn't feel like that. It feels like I want to shake these women and tell them they don't need to do this as it can cause a world of pain.

When relationships go sour for whatever reason the parties involved are never going to say the other one was not at fault.
If someone strays from a marriage then they are the one at fault no matter how toxic the marriage is. If it's that bad then leave before you start shagging somebody else.
If you meet someone who is married and they slag the wife off or the other way around it should be a massive red flag

The justification is 'she is barely a wife so I'm not doing anything that bad'

Obviously you have a certain moral level, albeit pretty low, but that isn't ubiquitous and its naive think otherwise

There will be plenty who never dreamed of finding themselves in the sordid position of sleeping with a married man and therefore need to convince themselves that he isn't technically a married man because his marriage is pretty much over bar the shouting
Hearing there is no sex/love/affection will be the confirmation (bias) they need to cross the line

@Roff

I can only speak of my own experience but I didn't need to hear any of that nonsense to make me continue, it was about him and never about her.

I think this is the really interesting point which gets missed on all conversations about affairs. I don't think about her - not because I'm cold or a narcissist or immoral - but because my head and heart are full of him. I want him in spite of his marriage, not because of it.

That's an insightful and honest post @Roff.

Can I ask, why you want him so much and also, do you think that the version of him you have in your head and heart is the true version? The version you would get if you were to end up with him?

The justification is 'she is barely a wife so I'm not doing anything that bad'
Yes but no one with even a modicum of intelligence would actually believe that. You would still know full well what you're doing is wrong and it can't be justified.
I find interesting that some of the wives on this thread appear to have wanted to OW to have thought badly of them, to have justified it to themselves. Does that feel better than knowing the OW didn't think of you at all?

I can only speak of my own experience but I didn't need to hear any of that nonsense to make me continue, it was about him and never about her. I think this is the really interesting point which gets missed on all conversations about affairs. I don't think about her - not because I'm cold or a narcissist or immoral - but because my head and heart are full of him. I want him in spite of his marriage, not because of it

This is the same for me. He has never said anything remotely derogatory about his wife or that they don't sleep together. I mostly feel that she knew what she was getting when she married him as she used to be the OW. I pity her although am also jealous. And I know it sounds insincere but I genuinely am concerned about the damage AP is doing to her by his constant lying even though I don't feel responsible, that is entirely his doing.
I do feel bad that he sees me while she is working though, she does long hours in a difficult job.

I don't think about her really. He is serially unfaithful and if it wasn't me it would be someone else. She's highly educated, attractive and successful. He says he loves her like a best friend but they are sexually mismatched. He also says that she's very strong minded and he likes being with me because he can be the boss for once!?!

I'm very fond of him and sometimes I feel jealous that she gets to be with him full time but I know that if I was married to him he'd be cheating on me too.

The justification is 'she is barely a wife so I'm not doing anything that bad'
Yes but no one with even a modicum of intelligence would actually believe that. You would still know full well what you're doing is wrong and it can't be justified.
My exh managed to convince himself of this. He's not stupid, but it's amazing what you can believe when you want to believe it. And frankly, many people actually are stupid!

What interests me on this thread is that even though a couple of us have described witnessing the OW listening to and discussing or even encouraging the lies told about us, some others seem not to want to accept that any OW would do that. Presumably they'd rather see OWs as nice women who are focused entirely on their deep, true love for a man and would never say a bad word about anyone.

Honestly @EpochTime yes. I knew him for about 5 years before anything started. We worked together so saw him day in day out. Had arguments and good times, sometimes had lunch together or ran errands, we went to events and travelled etc etc.

I never, ever though there was anything there until suddenly there was, and then lots of things over the previous 5 years made sense to both of us.

And even now, our affair isn't shags in cars or lovebombing or being wined and dined. Yes we have to do secret messages, calls and there's plenty of sex. But we've also been on long walks and exploring for the day, spend the hours lying around talking, go to the supermarket to get stuff and then make lunch together.

So I've a pretty good idea of what life with him would be like, and I would love the mundane, boring normal life instead of this one.

If it wasn't me it would be some other woman. I know it's incredibly selfish to think like that, but it is what it is.

You know what it feels like yet you're happy to do the same to another woman. So much for the sisterhood. How cold can you get?

Perhaps the question should be how does the wife view the ow who went with a married man or man in a relationship knowing he had a wife/partner and possibly children at home - despite his claims of the relationship struggling/over - he was and is still in a relationship. Why does the ow want that and not one of the many single men out there? And no I don’t think it’s the ow who is to blame for the affair - the main person to throw the blame at is to is the crappy husband or wife or person in the relationship who cheats!!!

Thank you for explaining, OP.

So I've a pretty good idea of what life with him would be like, and I would love the mundane, boring normal life instead of this one.

That's probably what my ex's OW thought. She believed his lies and is now his victim. Does she deserve it? Yes in that she knew we were married but, as I say, she believed what he told her and abusers often don't show their true colours until they are well and truly ensconced. Oh well.

@Roff

So I've a pretty good idea of what life with him would be like, and I would love the mundane, boring normal life instead of this one.

I just can't imagine liking, let alone loving, someone who could know I felt that way about them and kept shagging me and playing house (supermarket etc) when it suited them but wouldn't leave their partner.

Maybe he does love you, but he doesn't love you enough and he is proactively complicit in you living half a life. A life in the shadows, in secret, hidden away.

If the reasons he won't leave his wife are so insurmountable then he shouldn't be so cruel as to keep you where you are now.

If they aren't insurmountable and he just wants to stay with her more than he wants to be then ditto.

Men like him aren't usually tortured souls who live in a state of guilt and confusion, they're just cowards who want the best of both worlds.

[quote youvegottenminuteslynn]@Roff

So I've a pretty good idea of what life with him would be like, and I would love the mundane, boring normal life instead of this one.

I just can't imagine liking, let alone loving, someone who could know I felt that way about them and kept shagging me and playing house (supermarket etc) when it suited them but wouldn't leave their partner.

Maybe he does love you, but he doesn't love you enough and he is proactively complicit in you living half a life. A life in the shadows, in secret, hidden away.

If the reasons he won't leave his wife are so insurmountable then he shouldn't be so cruel as to keep you where you are now.

If they aren't insurmountable and he just wants to stay with her more than he wants to be then ditto.

Men like him aren't usually tortured souls who live in a state of guilt and confusion, they're just cowards who want the best of both worlds.[/quote]
Perhaps, but we haven't properly discussed the leaving/not leaving yet. I have said I am not ready to. But he has said I/we need to make a decision in the next few weeks.

The thiing is, when you're having an affair, you can't be together all the time - so when you get to spend time lounging around, surely it is still special? When you get to go to the supermarket and act like a couple, aren't you savouring that feeling? When you have an entire day for a walk, doesn't that feel like a lovely treat?

I have a live-out relationship - we meet up a couple of days a week - and that limited time we have together makes it more exciting. We've been together 4 years now, and it is still a lot less mundane than a live-in relationship.

What interests me on this thread is that even though a couple of us have described witnessing the OW listening to and discussing or even encouraging the lies told about us, some others seem not to want to accept that any OW would do that. Presumably they'd rather see OWs as nice women who are focused entirely on their deep, true love for a man and would never say a bad word about anyone.
That's absolutely not my viewpoint. I honestly can't see how anyone would be stupid enough to believe the wife is the bad person and that the man is a poor victim. When he's the one cheating and the OW is the one sleeping with another woman's husband how could she judge the wife?
I would have thought as the wife it would be better to think that the OW hadn't thought of me instead of thinking that her and the husband had sat discussing what a bad wife I was. The injustice of that would infuriate me just as much as knowing she'd been sleeping with my husband.

There are so many more reasons why people don’t leave their wives/husbands other than not wanting to / not loving the AP enough. Boring practical reasons like not being able to afford to run 2 houses or not wanting to be separated from their children. My friend was cheated on by his wife and his rationale for staying was that he would be the one paying for a new property on top of the mortgage ( as she only worked p/t) and he would have difficulties with the contact arrangements as he worked away and would miss them.

RE; the poster who thinks expecting monogamy in a relationship is controlling.

I don’t think so. I like to make an informed decision about my life. And actually ex expected monogamy from me just didn’t expect to be monogamous himself. Which is controlling.
All things being equal I’d like to know the terms of our relationship and my wedding vows stated specifically that we would only be with one another.

I wouldn’t have been upset about the affair and really wasn’t until the OW was nasty about me in court when she didn’t know me. In my case the OW stated I was fifty percent responsible for exams abuse (caused massive concern to the CAFCAS officer and the domestic violence intervention manager and the judge. They were worried she would be next).

AN ex friend married her AP he left a newborn baby for her.
Her justification, was they were too young when they got married and marrying a woman in her twenties when he was in his twenties as naive and stupid. The wife was abusive, however she nor MM felt any concern leaving this abusive woman in charge of his son and newborn baby. The wife just wanted MM, but it was fine that MM took friend and her kids to very expensive family holidays.

In my ex friends case she had to have a maritime where ex-wife was a monster and MM was a poor innocent blindsided into marriage because he was too young to know any better.

Then she changed the narrative when they got married that she hadn’t had an affair and hadn’t met the MM till after her split with his wife.

It was all really unhealthy.

ex wife was only with her husband for his money

Maritime = narrative

When he's the one cheating and the OW is the one sleeping with another woman's husband how could she judge the wife?
The OW was also married, so they were both sleeping with someone else's spouse. They didn't judge the spouses, though: they just preferred to think of them as people who kind of deserved the treatment they were getting.

I would have thought as the wife it would be better to think that the OW hadn't thought of me instead of thinking that her and the husband had sat discussing what a bad wife I was. The injustice of that would infuriate me just as much as knowing she'd been sleeping with my husband.
Yes, I'd much prefer that. I'd love to think that they hadn't emailed one another constantly discussing my supposed flaws and behaviour in great detail. But I read the emails, so I can't think that. It didn't infuriate me, though. It made me wonder who else he'd been telling these lies to, and whether all of our joint friends now also thought I was horrible. I felt afraid to see anyone, as I knew it was just my word against his - I couldn't prove anything, and he had already got in there first so might already have convinced them. I was afraid to talk about it, as I thought if I said nothing they would think it was true, but also, if I tried to defend myself they would think I was protesting too much and it was true! I was in a total state. Took a while to get furious, and eventually to realise that actually, nobody cared that much!