How do you view 'the wife'?

[EpochTime]

Can I ask those posters who have had an affair - how do you view 'the wife'? I'm intrigued by the recent threads about going NC because often, when I read them, I wonder about the wife in these scenarios. What sort of person she is, where she is and what she might be doing when the affair is taking place, that sort of thing. References to the wife as a person are rare in threads written by those having affairs. I just have an intellectual curiosity - this is not designed to be an antagonistic post.

@DeeCeeCherry and @bumhead

Then report? OP has been a member and been posting for months.

@GlitterSandcastle wow, taht is quite a manipulative tactic, to landgrab all of martyrdom and leave you unable to put your toe in the water of being a victim, ykwim? I'm sure you didn't want to sit around being a victim forever but with her statement gaslighting you that she was the victim of you wow wow wow She sounds a fucking gaslighter extraordinaire.

Are you looking for justification?

@MorrisZapp

I'm neither wife nor OW, but as an observer of human relationships I find it baffling that marriages are characterised on here as secure, stable, full of regular sex and with the man having his cooking and cleaning done for him.

I'm reasonably happy/bumbling along in my LTR and we rarely have sex any more. I've never cooked or cleaned for him, we share all domestic tasks. This is broadly similar to my friends relationships too.

The relationships board is full every day with unsatisfactory, unfulfilling LTRs where intimacy is gone and mutual resentment set in. It's not rare, it's a standard enough domestic scenario to fuel an entire literary and TV drama genre. If a woman told you 'my marriage is boring and I'm beginning to think my spouse might be a bit of a knob' you'd believe her without question.

Why can't men say it?

I don't understand what you're saying: do you mean that the women here saying that they still had sex are lying? If so, why do you think that? Because that's not your exprience? And who has claimed that men can't say what?

My exh described me to his affair partner as not being interested in sex, adding (as an illustration of his dickishness) "Perhaps it's because she is British" - as if this was the greatest insight into my character he had after 20 years. In reality, we were having sex once or twice a week - after 20 years it's not as thrilling as a new partner, of course, but he was showing every sign of still enjoying it.

In a later email, he wanted to complain about how hard it was for him to have sex with me any more, so had to change his story, obviously. He told his OW that I "must have noticed something", because I had suddenly started to want sex.

I just think the imposed expiation of monogamy is a bad idea

It's just not natural, way too black and white, we have complex feelings for different people at different times

We accept monogamy as a rule because of our insecurities, possessiveness and jealousy mainly

We would never accept that friends can only be in a friendship with one person at a time to the exclusion of all others

why should sexual relations and partnerships not be more like friendship?

Isn't it odd and controlling to expect your partner to love you and only you forever and ever? I think it's an odd expectation!

To me, affairs are bad only because given current social norms they necessarily involve deceit and lying, but if monogamy was not the expectation, then they wouldn't

I think we should give up on the idea of enforced monogamy entirely!

Isn't it odd and controlling to expect your partner to love you and only you forever and ever? I think it's an odd expectation!
I didn't expect my exh to do that, and I don't expect my current partner to do that. When I thought my exh was just interested in and flirting with his AP, I specifically told him that if he wanted to be with someone else, could he please do the right thing and end it with me first.

I am fine with no more than serial monogamy. That's not odd and controlling or about being jealous. It's about very sensibly not wanting to catch something off a whole chain of people having sex with each other, including strangers.

If someone can't even manage that, then they can stay single and sleep around or find someone who's into polyamory. No-one is forced to do anything.

I was 19 and he was 32. His wife lived in another country with his children. I don't feel good about it but she was so far away she really wasn't a real person to me. Marriage and kids felt so impossibly alien to me at that time, and how their relationship could be real when he lived here also made it seem easier. We didn't see each other long and he abruptly had to leave and go back to his country, he didn't say why but it was so abrupt I think she found out.

Last I heard they are still together, they look happy and so do his kids. I hope they are. 17 year old me was too selfish and immature to care much at the time. I don't think he was a bad person and I think he probably was lonely here and that's why it happened. Perhaps I tell myself that to make it all ok and imagine a rosy picture of them happy together now.

I read a really interesting take on how the AP sees the wife which has stuck with me...

If you go for an interview for your dream job, you aren't thinking about the person who is moving on from that job or why. Even if you find out that they are going to be fired because they haven't done the job well, you don't feel guilty about now taking the job. You just see this as an opportunity for your career progression, even if it means someone else will be out of a job as a result, and their sanity/family/finances will be messed up.

That's how (some) OWs must think. I have seen something I want, the outgoing candidate might not like it but I've interviewed better

For the record, I absolutely am not and never have been a OW, and I think they are absolute delusional scum

"Isn't it odd and controlling to expect your partner to love you and only you forever and ever? I think it's an odd expectation!"

There are some people (me included) that expects my partner to love me and me only. There are other people who don't expect that.

With some honesty at the start, the monogamy-is-important-to-me and the monogomy-isn't-a-big-deal-to-me tribes can split off and make each other happy

What is very controlling and not ok is lying to your partner that you are willing to be faithful, and then not. The trauma and destruction that betrayal can cause to the mental and physical health of people is unacceptable collateral damage in my opinion.
I have seen previously healthy, sane women reduced to absolute wrecks after discovering infidelity in what they thought was a stable relationship. If their husbands had been honest earlier about not being capable of monogamy, maybe they would have been able to prepare themselves better, rather than having the rug pulled from underneath them and their families.

There is no excuse for lying

I was the OW a few years back. He was my boss at work.

He never criticised his wife, had been with her for 20+ years and had two grown kids. He was very much a ‘hero’ at home, was the best dad and his hero complex meant he would never leave his stable family unit for me, although he promised many times to do so.

I remember hearing him tell his wife he loved her on the phone, and once for one of our nights together he bought over a used tube of lube which he had brought from home, he didn’t see anything wrong with this.

She was the typical stay at home wife, was an excellent cook (so I was told when I once made scrambled eggs on toast for him and the bread had a bit of mould on it) and looked after the home and kids lovingly.

I used to be obsessed about wondering what the wife was like, I’d try and find her photos online. She seemed like a lovely woman. Apparently she had once told him that all her friends think he’s having an affair (this was an affair he had before me). She absolutely knew what he was up to but chose to ignore it, I don’t blame her and feel only deep, deep regret that I ever got involved. I only blame myself.

He still tries to contact me every few months.

@sparechange, isn't it a bit like bringing someone in to do the job you are currently doing but not telling you, then either the new person isn't up to it or you find yourself sacked?

@KirstenBlest, yes similar

But I know of people who have been interviewed for jobs because they are teeing up the next person ahead of sacking the person currently doing the job, so I suppose it would be a bit like that?

And in those cases, the people going for interviews isn't feeling guilty about the person they might be replacing. They just put their best face on in the interview and hope they get the job even though that means someone else losing theirs.

But I think it takes a certain level of cold-eyes psychopathy to be an OW who sees themselves as fulfilling a job in a 'best woman wins' situation, especially when there are children at stake.

But I suspect it largely comes down to deluding themselves that the wife should have tried harder if she really wanted to keep her husband for herself

@sparechange

I can see the point you're making about the interview for the new job, and in some sense, it rings very true. Although in a lot of cases, I suspect there is a great deal of "head hunting" going on in this analogy.

You could call me an OW but I'm not sure I necessarily fit the profile. I had a close friendship with a MM, we talked about the problems within our marriages/things we'd been through with each other, spent some time together (for work) but never ever crossed that physical line. It developed in to a close friendship very quickly.

I didn't think we were doing anything wrong at the time, and still don't. She accused us of having an affair and we stopped contact. I lost a friend and realised I was more upset about that loss than I perhaps should have been. He feels the same. We're in limited contact about work and that is difficult.

I still have other male friends, their partners have no issue with me. I have no issue with my H having female friends.

I have met the wife, on several occasions, and I thought she was a nice person and they had a happy marriage. She was friendly, polite and funny. But after I learned on some of the ongoings in their marriage, I looked back on the time I spent with her and a lot of things that happened make a lot of sense.

She is absolutely convinced there was more going on than meets the eye, there wasn't. She is not happy that he chose to talk to someone about their marriage other than her. Is that a betrayal of trust or her trying to protect the facade she's worked so hard to create? She's told several people we've been having an affair and the repercussions have been huge. I spent a great deal of my time sticking up for her and fighting her corner.

My view of "the wife"? I feel angry at her for treating him like that. But mostly, I feel sorry for her that she cares so much about what everyone else thinks of her relationship instead of assessing whether or not she's truly happy.

But I suspect it largely comes down to deluding themselves that the wife should have tried harder if she really wanted to keep her husband for herself

I think this thread has shown that there really isn't that much direct though applied to the wife. It's hard to imagine them as a real person when you've never met, and it's often painful to try as that means confronting what you're doing.

Is that cowardly? Well yes, but its better than thinking 'she's not good enough/should try harder' which I most OW (and OM) don't do.

@wonderingaboutlife1, you were the emotional affair partner there.
Did you not consider why a MM was getting close to you?

I'm asking because my XP had an EA, and I can't understand why OW let her 'friend' get so close.

I lost a friend and realised I was more upset about that loss than I perhaps should have been.
So you realised that you had got a lot closer to him than with your normal male friends? That you were starting to fall for him? Even if you didn't get that far, I imagine that is what the wife spotted in her husband.

It is hurtful to see your dh talking to a third party about your private matters, especially if he is refusing to talk to you about things, and even more so if you suspect that he might be in or on the verge of an affair.

Seems a bit naive to think that wouldn't cause hurt and suspicion.

@ravenmum I have no insight into stranger's sex lives, that's obviously private. My point is that MN routinely tells women that men who claim they aren't having sex any more are lying, or it's 'that old chestnut', and that women are at fault for believing it.

I'm not having an affair, but if a married man told me 'our sex life is pretty much dead' I'd believe him, because not only is that my own experience, its the experience of lots of people I know, and lots of posters on here.

@KirstenBlest

This is what interests me. If I was having those conversations with another female, no one would bat an eyelid. But because he was male, it's an emotional affair.

I did consider our friendship, have spent a lot of time doing so since. I don't think our friendship crossed any lines. I don't understand why it's wrong to seek advice from a member of the opposite sex in order to try to understand your H and his behaviour?

I don't know what your XP said to the OW to take it from a friendship to an EA. But I would think it is a very faint and thin line to cross, and could happen without the OW really realising.

Mine sent me a couple of flirty messages that stopped me in my tracks, and I didn't respond in the same manner but I also didn't cut off the communication. I used to work in the pub, and found the comments I'd get from the men the other side of the bar much more disturbing and unwelcome. Each person has their own level of what they think is appropriate or not and unfortunately the lines on EA can not be clear cut.

It was only after we ceased communication that I found I cared more than I perhaps ought to, but is that an attraction or sadness at losing a good friend?

[quote MorrisZapp]@ravenmum I have no insight into stranger's sex lives, that's obviously private. My point is that MN routinely tells women that men who claim they aren't having sex any more are lying, or it's 'that old chestnut', and that women are at fault for believing it.

I'm not having an affair, but if a married man told me 'our sex life is pretty much dead' I'd believe him, because not only is that my own experience, its the experience of lots of people I know, and lots of posters on here.[/quote]
I can understand why an OW would just assume it was the truth.

But I can say exactly the same thing as you, with a slight diffference:

if a married man told me 'our sex life is pretty much dead' I'd suspect that they were still sleeping together, because not only is it my own experience, it's the experience of lots of people I know, and lots of posters on here.

My ex and I separated in June. Within days he had started a relationship with a work colleague. He maintains nothing was happening before. I disbelieve him.

I've often wondered what motivates a woman to enter a relationship with man who has a 3 year old, who is still married and has just left a 14 year relationship. She also knew me as we had worked together, although not had anything to do with her.

My assumption is that she must have been fed some real nasty stuff about me about how he hadn't loved me for a long time. How badly I'd treated him. How lazy I was. How I never supported him. She really must have thought I was vile.... but then perhaps I'm making excuses.

In the end he messed her about something awfully. He basically used her as a weapon to get at me, and ignore the pain of the end of our relationship, and I feel very sad for her. He ended it with her, because he was still in love with me, then when I wouldn't take him back, went back to her, and then ended it again to 'find himself'.

@wonderingaboutlife1, in my case, he was actively chasing her. She was newly out of a LTR but an old friend. It was easy for him to fall into the partner slot with her. He was popping round, taking her for meals and things, buying her presents, ingratiating himself. I expect it was all too obvious to everyone.

Not a popular suggestion on here, but how a woman views a male friend and how a man view a female friend is different. Women don't think with their dicks.

I've been in a position with colleagues where if the man had been single, I would have spotted interest immediately, but when they are married/attached thought 'No, he's married', but there comes a point where I thought, he's close to crossing a boundary, and pulled away.

Mine sent me a couple of flirty messages that stopped me in my tracks, and I didn't respond in the same manner but I also didn't cut off the communication.
So he was flirting with you. You might not have fancied him, and you might not have flirted, but he fancied you, and he flirted. His wife was right to suspect him.

My assumption is that she must have been fed some real nasty stuff about me about how he hadn't loved me for a long time. How badly I'd treated him. How lazy I was. How I never supported him. She really must have thought I was vile.... but then perhaps I'm making excuses.
This assumption is what baffles me. We don't need to hear what a bad person the wife is to sleep with their husband. It makes no difference because it's not about the wife it's about the man that we have feelings for. We don't need to be fed lies and feel sympathy for a man to sleep with him for gods sake.

We don't need to be fed lies and feel sympathy for a man to sleep with him for gods sake.
I'm sure my OW didn't need or want to hear all my exh's lies, no! But he felt compelled to tell her them, to "justify" why he was treating me badly - and she might well have expressed an interest in why he was having an affair - you talk to your partner about private problems, right?

My exh considered himself a morally upright person, and wanted to preserve that image, so he couldn't say "Sex is OK with my wife but I just fancy sleeping with you because I allow myself whatever I fancy" or "My wife's an OK person who hasn't done anything awful to deserve being lied to, but I thought I'd do it anyway".

Fair enough @briggd. Maybe I'm just looking at from my own moral code. I've never really looked at it from that perspective. Perhaps it helped me feel easier about the whole thing, or at least less angry.