Engagement season - and an unromantic DP

[Daphne564]

Just need to get this off my chest as there’s no way I could admit to this in real life.

This Christmas period three, yes THREE of my very good friends have got engaged. All with really lovely, special stories and I am really happy for them, genuinely.

I also can’t help feeling wistful/envious. I’ve been with DP 5 years and although we have discussed getting married a bit, in the sense that we both do want to get married (to each other) and start a family eventually, DP seems in no rush.

He is good in many ways but also the world’s least romantic man, hates any kind of spontaneity and gets weirdly worried about spending too much money on things (when it suits) - so with these things combined, I really wonder whether he is ever going to propose.

Now, I know that I could ask him. I know I could just ‘have a conversation’ and we could very sensibly just decide to get married. However I would really really love for once for him to show some romance, some effort and to do sometime special. I don’t care that it’s an old fashioned way of looking at it. I want a nice proposal - nothing public but something that he has thought about.

We are both 32 nearly 33. I would like to have a baby before 35 ideally and we both agree being married first is best. So surely it’s got to happen soon?

My friends are all showing their rings in multiple Instagram posts, already wedding planning and I feel I am living vicariously through them!

I suppose I’d like to know if anyone else has been through the same with a similar DP and if they ever did end up married?

He has told the op he wants to marry and have children He hasn’t done either
Her bf has made no significant step towards being a dad or a husband
Meanwhile op she’s stuck hoping and wishing he’d marry her

He has told the op he wants to marry and have children

OP said they discussed it a bit. That is not a solid foundation. He doesn't want to marry the OP and she is kidding herself if she thinks he will propose.

I hope the OP will move on but I suspect she will sit there for a few more years until reality dawns

But she hasn't discussed it further either, or taken any steps towards being a wife and mother. If it's what the op wants she needs to start the ball rolling instead of passively waiting and hoping.

I completely agree,the op being passive and waiting on him is appalling

Sorry to disappear, haven’t been on MN for a couple of days.

Have to say I am a bit shocked by the responses here - not that I expected everyone to say they’d had the same experience but to be told I’m pathetic for being ‘passive’ and waiting around. I genuinely thought that is what 99% of women who get married have done. That their DP surprised them with a ring. Even friends who have got engaged have appeared to be in the same position, I don’t know anyone who strong armed their partner into it.

Anyway I’m going to have an honest conversation with DP and make clear I’m not waiting around. I want the next chapter of my life to start, with DP, so I’ll have to take control and forget about any notions of being swept off my feet as clearly that’s all lies or a fantasy!

It's not lies and fantasy op and fwiw I would never ask a man to marry me. But THIS man isnt coming up with the goods snd if you read the post from the guy here he's pretty clear it's likely to be because he doesn't see himself with you in that way - that chimes with my experience and what I've heard many men say.

So have the conversation, set a clear time frame and then leave it. When the time frame comes up leave if it's not happening. Dont waste your fertility on this man.

In the meantime focus on building YOUR life and be a bit less predictable and available, and more interesting too and for yourself. It is the only strategy that will work.

We can not give you magic words that will result in him falling to his knees ring in one hand. I'm not sure why you are only focusing on the posts you feel are saying you should ask him - it's not the answer. But then neither is having endless heart to hearts. He's not getting it and that's that.

If he's a bit scared you are slipping away he might change. If you act like you value yourself he might value you more. Or he might not and you need to be prepared to leave.

Personally I think he's not that into you and you would be better off dealing with that sooner rather than later but that's easy for me to say. But you want a magic cure. And that doesn't exist.

I don’t think you’re pathetic, @Daphne564... and for what it’s worth, I think you’re doing the right thing. If you’d like to have a child in the next two years and want to be married first, you need to get your skates on... if you’d rather have a spontaneous; romantic proposal, you’ll need to be less rigid on the timeline, as you need to leave it up to him (within reason) - and if he’s not romantic, it may never live up to your expectations.

Have the chat. If you’ve otherwise got a great relationship, choose the excellent husband over the swoon worthy proposal. It’ll count for SO much more.

However you get engaged, it’ll be a nice memory; and everyone else will lose interest in the proposal itself surprisingly quickly (in the nicest way! It just becomes old news)

Just to clarify. DH and I met in our early 20s so we had the luxury of time. We'd been together a few years and had unspecific conversations about marriage and children "one day". But then I was ready to get married and he wasn't quite ready, so we had to have a frank conversation about it. He hadn't realise quite how important marriage was to me (I absolutely wanted marriage before children, he was less fussed). We even talked about preferences for a proposal and engagement - we could have just decided to get married and planned it, or I could have proposed to him, I didn't mind as long as we got married, but he was the one who wanted to propose to me - I think a lot of men feel that's the way it "should" happen. Maybe they want to retain the power (consciously or unconsciously), maybe they just want to make the romantic gesture that "tradition" dictates.
Anyway, after DH and I had that conversation, I agreed to wait for him to propose, but I wasn't going to wait indefinitely, and if it had taken longer than 6 months or so, we would have been having another conversation, most definitely! Plus I had the luxury of time, I must have been about 26 at that point, DH proposed a few months before my 27th birthday, and we got married less than a year later when I was 27.

Anyway, sorry to bore you with my story, just wanted to point out that you can in fact have a combination of a sensible conversation and a romantic proposal if that's what you both want. I mean, the conversation obviously takes away the element of complete surprise, but let's face it, when you've been living together for years, it's never going to be a massive surprise anyway, or it shouldn't be!

@Daphne564 no one is suggesting you strong arm your dp into marriage
However a frank conversation is required to confirm you’re both on the same page
Then progress to quickly setting a date

Why would he want to marry you? On a selfish level, what's in it for him? I presume you already live together, you have sex, and things are nice, comfortable and cozy for him right now, just the way they are. Your answer to that may be 'Because he loves me?' 'Because he wants to show commitment?', but if he's emotionally different to you, he just won't think or feel that way. He may be under the impression that he has more to lose financially if you divorce, and right now, other than your occasional complaint about not being married, he's quite happy just the way things are because there is nothing he is currently lacking, and nothing he's being denied (I assume). Futhermore, if he's more passive that you and if you feel frustrated at his lack of energy and spontaneity now, how will you be in 10 years time when he's likely to be more set in his ways?

There are some serious twats out there who can do romantic things. They know how to play the game. They're romantic because they do it for a sort of show. They want you to tell everyone around you how amazingly thoughtful they are so they can bask in that glory. It's very performative and it's all for a sort of self-congratulatory ego trip.

Setting that aside, the willingness to be thoughtful and romantic for altruistic reasons shows that a man actually cares what you think, is willing to make an effort, and gets pleasure from seeing you happy. A man who isn't bothered, pretty selfish, low energy, and thinks he no longer needs to make the effort (because what's in it for him) is not going to do that. Once they have what they want (you), they don't really understand the concept of getting happiness out of someone else's happiness. Those types of people aren't really people pleasers generally unless there's something directly in it for them. In addition to that, planning or being spontaneous is tiring for them.

Why does everyone else seem to have the nice engagement story and the proposal?

We didn't. Might have been nice, but didn't happen that way, we kind of talked about it and decided to get married. Now been.married over 20 years.

Having a grown up conversation is not strong arming for goodness sake. For some people a romantic proposal is not a fantasy, but in your situation it probably is, you have said yourself your dp is not that type. It is great that you have decided to talk to him, you only have one life, if you want marriage and children make it happen.

Why do you think it's strong arming to have an adult conversation with your life partner about the future of your relationship?

It wouldn't be strong arming either if you told him to set the date or you're off. That's just allowing both of you to make choices that are true to you. If he sets the date after that, it means he weighed up the options and was prepared to commit to you to keep you.

I just had a conversation with my DH about it one evening after he'd been round for dinner. Slightly different as I was a single mother at the time, but I made it clear that I would not be living with a man without being married, mainly because I needed to know that any new partner was ready to commit, as there was no way I was going to have a revolving door of live in boyfriends with DD around. We were very much in love, neither of us were particularly invested in a big flashy white wedding (DH is shy) plus we were skint. So we just talked about it and talked about it and then decided to set a date for about 18 months time. We didn't have a big fancy wedding, but we are very happy and I'm glad we did it the way we did, there was no insecurity or doubt, it was all out in the open. We were also younger than you are now. I do sympathise with wanting the romantic proposal, if that's important to you, but I just don't think it's something that means what it once did. We aren't ingenues in our late teens, waiting around for one of a selection of appropriate men to propose in the rose garden, and whisk us from our father's house. And thank God for that. Women nowadays marry much later, after living with their partner for years. If you're in your thirties, living with a man, then it's fair to assume that at least one half of the couple would perhaps like marriage and children sooner rather than later. It's not exactly news, it isn't a suprise, and it absolutely should be something the couple discuss. A proposal is only ever going to be symbolic when you're already a live in couple. A few friends of mine have had the discussion over marriage with their partners, and as part of that basically told their partners that they'd like a fun proposal when they least expected that. Other friends have gone the route DH and I took, decided to get married then chose a ring together on a day out. Does your partner even know you want a big proposal? I don't think some men realise that it's still something some women want, especially if the woman in question is otherwise quite non traditional

I genuinely thought that is what 99% of women who get married have done. That their DP surprised them with a ring. Even friends who have got engaged have appeared to be in the same position, I don’t know anyone who strong armed their partner into it.

It's interesting (and pretty depressing) that you see having a rational conversation about a major joint life decision as 'strong arming' -- you sound as if you've really imbibed some fairly reactionary and outdated ideas about marriage from a time and set of attitudes that are really no longer relevant to situations like yours, where you have been living together for years and have already both made it plain that you view yourselves as life partners who want to have children together.

Surely you can see that some kind of 'kneeling prince salutes shy, astonished Victorian maiden with a giant sparkler after asking her father for her hand' fantasy just makes no sense when you're already committed to one another? It would be like you waking up beside him for the 200th time and suddenly shyly asking him for his phone number.

In my view, you're already engaged, and have been since whenever you made it plain you viewed one another as life partners and future parents of one another's children.

Anyway I’m going to have an honest conversation with DP and make clear I’m not waiting around. I want the next chapter of my life to start, with DP, so I’ll have to take control and forget about any notions of being swept off my feet as clearly that’s all lies or a fantasy!

But he's presumably already 'swept you off your feet', surely -- when you fell in love with one another?

A friend of mine who has been married for nearly 25 years had a similar experience.

She had moved in with her partner under the strict understanding that this was the step before marriage (which he had explicitly said he wanted) as she did not want to make that commitment (buying a house etc) if it wasn't to the man she married. She then expected a proposal within the year - nothing. She ended up giving him an ultimatum - either he proposed within the following year or they should separate. That year was spent with her getting her hopes up every time they went away for a weekend / out for dinner. When he did ask her many months later, she was so worn out by disappointment that it was one of the least romantic events of her life.

They are happily married and have been through a lot together / supported each other and from my point of view they are one of those couples you like to be around. My friend admits now that it would have been far quicker and less painful for her to have just asked him. Plenty of the couples who had the 'romantic' proposal she yearned for are now divorced.

Your OH is not romantic - do yourself a favour and tell him what you need and when you need it. Appreciate him for his good points or dump him for someone who writes you poetry

I dislike your term 'strong arm'. Sounds like you think a lot of us forced our partner into marriage. That's not what happened when I had my conversation - it was a mutual agreement. My DH isn't a weak person who meekly does what he is told - I couldn't stand someone like that.

IME many men need the woman to take the lead in things like this. Possible marriage means more to a woman and certainly women have more sense of the ticking of their biological clock. Doesn't mean the man is not happy to get married when they realise that's what their partner wants - though some aren't, obviously. Hence your need to know.

A friend of mine got the big proposal- Orient Express etc etc. She knew what was going to happen- yes she loved it, but it wasn't a case of sweeping her off her feet. (This was 30 years ago - even then my friends and I saw it as rather old fashioned!)

The most romantic "proposal story" I know - ended in divorce after about 9 years. And I spent a lot of the build up to the proposal that a lot of us knew was going to happen hoping against hope privately that she would say "No".

You are not a chattel to bought, marriage isn't a fairy tale.

One of DD’s friends was whisked off to Paris about three years ago and proposed to in some romantic location . Beautiful ring , champagne etc .Photos all over SM .
She later admitted to DD that she had organised and paid for the trip and had given him most of the money for the ring as he wasn’t willing to spend more than £200.
Don’t believe everything you see on SM.

I asked my DH.

You can have the big romantic proposal... Easy.

You propose to him. You can make it as romantic as you want.

A friend of mine did the big romantic proposal to her man and I thought it was awesome (he said yes). I reckon that's so much a better story to tell all your friends and Instagram. You'll come out out of it a ballsy go-getting woman rather than someone who waits around to someone else to make decisions about her life.

Woman up and go for it. If he says no, at least you'll know.

I regret not getting the big proposal , but if I waited on my DH getting his finger out we still wouldn't get married.

I had to have the conversation with him and we nearly broke up. He then realised he didn't want to break up.

I wanted marriage and children, he only wanted children. Once we were married he said he wished he had done it sooner 🤦‍♀️

@AlicjaCross

He has told the op he wants to marry and have children

OP said they discussed it a bit. That is not a solid foundation. He doesn't want to marry the OP and she is kidding herself if she thinks he will propose.

I hope the OP will move on but I suspect she will sit there for a few more years until reality dawns

These responses enrage me and are so typical of MN.

Nevermind that you don't know the people involved, have not been party to the conversations and can not see into the future - just go ahead with your wild speculations and hurl an insult as you wrap up.

It's easy for most of the readers to ignore this level of stupidity but the person most invested (the OP) is feeling vulnerable about this particular topic. The fact you choose to prefer to get some cheap entertainment at her expense reflects really badly on you, not her.

"I hope the OP will move on..." No you don't hope anything of the sort.

I don’t know anyone who strong armed their partner into it.

More accurately you are not aware of any...

I know the wife of one of my friends said she wanted at least one child and he had a year to decide whether he wanted to be the father or not (& if not, she would go find someone else).
They did have a kid and married a couple of years later and are very happy and well suited.

I only know about the deadline thing because he told me - I think he thought it was fair enough (she works in a caring profession & is v v pragmatic, she realised that he was not too bothered about kids either way so it was cards on table time).

Nobody is perfect but in the above example they each thought the other was wonderful. You don't want or need perfection but your OH should, with all their foibles, still be lovely and wonderful in your eyes and vv

Think you’ve had lots of harsh responses here OP, but also agree with the idea of having a grown up conversation instead of sitting around waiting.

DH and I had this conversation, agreed we wanted to get married, have children shortly thereafter and even chose a date before he had proposed. He then not only showed me the engagement ring, but also tried to make me try it on to make sure it fit in advance of him actually proposing (which he had decided he still wanted to do)

In spite of all of this, I STILL ended up having an awkward few weeks of every time we did something even remotely nice - a walk through the park, lunch out, visit to a castle - I expected him to propose and he didn’t, and I ended up disappointed- which given the preceding events was ridiculous!

As it was, he ended up doing in one evening after I’d got back from work - late, stressed, hot and bothered - still in my work clothes, as I was rooting around behind the sofa looking for something. Quite why he chose that moment I’ll never know... Does it matter now? Not in the slightest. Is he any more romantic now? Absolutely not. Is he the best husband I could have wished for - practical, supportive, dependable, takes his share of the load? Absolutely.

None of the fluffy stuff matters. What matters is what he shows you in his intentions and actions. Best of luck!