Engagement season - and an unromantic DP

[Daphne564]

Just need to get this off my chest as there’s no way I could admit to this in real life.

This Christmas period three, yes THREE of my very good friends have got engaged. All with really lovely, special stories and I am really happy for them, genuinely.

I also can’t help feeling wistful/envious. I’ve been with DP 5 years and although we have discussed getting married a bit, in the sense that we both do want to get married (to each other) and start a family eventually, DP seems in no rush.

He is good in many ways but also the world’s least romantic man, hates any kind of spontaneity and gets weirdly worried about spending too much money on things (when it suits) - so with these things combined, I really wonder whether he is ever going to propose.

Now, I know that I could ask him. I know I could just ‘have a conversation’ and we could very sensibly just decide to get married. However I would really really love for once for him to show some romance, some effort and to do sometime special. I don’t care that it’s an old fashioned way of looking at it. I want a nice proposal - nothing public but something that he has thought about.

We are both 32 nearly 33. I would like to have a baby before 35 ideally and we both agree being married first is best. So surely it’s got to happen soon?

My friends are all showing their rings in multiple Instagram posts, already wedding planning and I feel I am living vicariously through them!

I suppose I’d like to know if anyone else has been through the same with a similar DP and if they ever did end up married?

It seems perfectly clear to me, Chumleymouse. Surely you know that marriage is a legal contract?

@Chumleymouse give over, that was super clear. Women should get married as they lose more from having kids and need protection from being financially unfairly treated.

"We are both 32 nearly 33. I would like to have a baby before 35 ideally and we both agree being married first is best. So surely it’s got to happen soon?"

Oh dear. If you really do want to be married with a baby by 35, you need to get a move on and stop passively waiting. If he's not willing to set a date within the next year, he doesn't want to marry you, and you should walk away.

Are you hoping to have just one child or more? If you just want one, you can take your time, but if you want two or more, you really need to get going. Get a fertility check up at least so you know whether you have the luxury of more time to waste waiting.

I would tell him exactly what you said in your opening post. As in word for word. I don't agree it is silly and pointless to want a proposal with some romance and planning behind it. No it's not all you need or the most important part but it's not unreasonable to want it.

Also, have you confided in your friends IRL you feel like this? Isn't it possible that your friends who got engaged also felt like this prior to the engagements? I know many of my happily married friends (I'm a decade older than you) had a story like yours. They tend to only share this part a while down the line.

I think you need to be clear you want to get married and when. But you also need to let him know very plainly that you would love him to propose traditionally and not leave you waiting a long time. If, after that, he doesn't then you have to consider that what's important to you isn't hugely important to him.

@Chumleymouse, really?the faux naïveté it’s a big bit daft. Post was straightforward
Let’s be clear being unmarried doesnt confer same legal protection. There’s no such thing as common law wife. Doesn’t exist. You have decreased protection as the partner

I can't imagine anything worse than waiting around hoping my dp would propose to me. It sounds soul destroying. My dh and i talked about getting married and then set a date. All very grown up and unromantic to many i am sure. On the other hand my best friend was whisked away to new york and was proposed to on the top of the empire state building, all very romantic. Except that she booked the flights and organised and paid for the whole thing herself, he just went along with it. And oh yes, he is an abusive dick.

Honestly grown women in long term relationships waiting for the man to propose makes me want to scream. How can we think we're doing so well for gender equality when women sit round letting the fella make the big life decisions.

The idea of a big romantic proposal is tacky as fuck and really patriarchal. Just have a conversation.

Yes it really irks. Smart adult women conferring power to men. Just passively waiting

@Chumleymouse

Can you repeat that in English please. ?

I genuinely don't see how my post was unclear and it seems others agree... the fact is that marriage provides legal protection for the person most likely to do the majority of childcare and in a patriarchal society that person is much more likely to be a woman. That's why women are advised that marriage is of course not necessary, but is advisable from a legal standpoint. Your message was a needlessly shitty response to my post which was factual with no undertones of judgement. Made yourself look a bit silly to be honest.

I think chmleymouse is a man. And projecting how the poor Menz get 'taken to the cleaners' once they marry if they then divorce. Because women should be able to do 90% of the child rearing and housework AND have a great career (not better than his obvs) but also be the caring loving mummy type. Oh snd 'let him' do whatever he wants. Anything else just isn't fair!

Meanwhile in the real world @Westsidedaduk has nailed it with this

That said, I KNEW, I wanted to marry her after around 6 months really. We were together 2 years before we got married, and had I not mentioned the ring, I would have proposed 'properly' within that month.

Anyway, point I wanted to make is that if a guy wants to get married, he'll propose. No question.

And this
Five years is a VERY long time to be sitting on the fence, or be indifferent about a relationship you know you really want to be in. To my mind that length of time, at the stage you are in life and relationship suggests he's somewhat complacent or ambivalent about the relationship.

If he truly wanted you to be his wife, he'd have asked by now.

I can't speak for all men, of course, but in my experience, those I've known that have waited so long without proposing have been hedging their bets, as it were, or deep down knew that their partner wasn't genuinely the person they loved.

I have heard many men say these exact words. It's how decent men think. If they don't think they want it all with you then they might hope you will move on (as opposed to them having to say something) and they will respect you for doing so.

People will take what you give them and will respect you as much as you respect yourself. But they will also string you along if you let them.

If it’s any consolation OP the two of my friends who got engaged this new year/Christmas have both heavily pressured their DPs into it. Including one moving out, you’d never know that from insta, it’s all love and “surprise” on there.
You won’t find the advice you’re looking for on here but I’ve read other sites things such as pulling back from all wife like duties, eg washing and cooking. Making an important purchase or decision without seeking his advice. Building a life away from the relationship, going out without telling him where you’re going. Remove references to your relationship from social media. It’s very difficult to do this at the moment but I’d try and talk to him about what you’re plans are and then pull away a bit.

As I said, Men marry the women they want to marry.fact you’re not married means he doesn’t want to get married
That may or may not change But don’t give him all the power. Where you just wait

@Beccasb

If it’s any consolation OP the two of my friends who got engaged this new year/Christmas have both heavily pressured their DPs into it. Including one moving out, you’d never know that from insta, it’s all love and “surprise” on there. You won’t find the advice you’re looking for on here but I’ve read other sites things such as pulling back from all wife like duties, eg washing and cooking. Making an important purchase or decision without seeking his advice. Building a life away from the relationship, going out without telling him where you’re going. Remove references to your relationship from social media. It’s very difficult to do this at the moment but I’d try and talk to him about what you’re plans are and then pull away a bit.

I actually think this is great advice. Be less of a wife in waiting and more of a woman with options and a life of her own. Not being all domesticated so he will think he can't get by without you (which really doesn't work!) but more 'I'm not your wife so why should I' - although NEVER say this out loud. And why not buy some things you want or go somewhere without him? Let him feel you slipping away. Feeling safe with you is absolutely not working.

i got married September. together 8 years 2 kids. hes romantic in that he looks after me but id have died waitingfor a statement proposal.told him hed got me pregnant twice so he'd better marry me. was never forthcoming with planning but wore a stupid grin all day and was delighted with our lockdown wedding. i know plenty of people with the big proposal and the disappointing marriage. if its important to you put your big girl pants on and have the chat

He sounds exactly like my DH. Except my DH has never done anything romantic at all, ever!

He suggested (didn’t propose, suggested), that we got married not long after we’d had our daughter.

This was after 11 years of waiting, being led on about the possibility of a proposal etc. He was just never going to do it. What was worse for me was that his brother proposed to his girlfriend after being together for a few years less than us. Then they proceeded to wind me up about it. I was very hurt that my DH (then DP) didn’t seem to feel the same way. I very nearly left him at this point, but held on as we were about to start our first round of IVF, and at the time that was the most important thing in my life.

Anyway, so we got married when our daughter was a year old; it was a very quiet ceremony with no guests. That was how be both wanted it to be.

To add, BIL and his girlfriend are still just engaged - 6 years on. No sign of a wedding. Engagement means nothing OP. I never considered myself “engaged” even when booking the wedding.

Anyway, don’t let anyone tell you he doesn’t want to marry you just because he’s not proposed after 5 years. How could they possibly know?

I think you need a chat with him, especially as you want children and are heading for your mid-30s. I had to have IVF when I was 33. It just wasn’t happening for us.

Good luck.

@Pissoffbikes

I'm in exactly the same boat as you OP. There's nothing wrong with wanting to feel special and swept of your feet.

Yeah, apart from the fact that the OP has chosen a man she admits is ‘unromantic’ and is sitting about wasting her life sorrowing over other people’s Instagrammable proposals and not getting married and having the children she wants.

You can get this done this weekend.
At dinner just say to him, I want to get married on x date and I want you to be there too. What do you say?
Hell either say yes or no. Then you'll have your answer one way or the other. Then book the register office. No more waffle and faffing about.

@BackwardsGoing

I don't think OP is coming back...

I don't think so either.

The lack of a romantic proposal isn't an issue as much as the lack of any apparent desire on his part to marry you. And if you can't have an honest conversation about where the relationship is going, it doesn't bode well.

Never mind the romantic proposal, what does he say when you say you want to get married and have a child in the next two or three years? I can't help but feel that if you felt secure that he wants and intends this, you wouldn't really care that he hasn't made a show of it; the show sounds like it is necessary to demonstrate the reassurance that you aren't getting elsewhere.

At any rate, if he is not willing to commit, then DO NOT STICK AROUND. I understand the feeling of time pressure and all that, but if he's not going to do it then you'll only waste more time, and men who aren't all in don't tend to stick around themselves. I'm sorry to say that there is a significant proportion of men who honestly don't mind running down a woman's clock and then fucking off with someone younger, deciding that, now the chance with her has passed, they do want it after all. Truly, truly, truly better to be by yourself and use those years for your own advantage and enjoyment than waste them on someone who is happy to do this to you.

If you live together then the old fashioned proposal etc makes no sense. It’s like picking just the bits of tradition you want.

Most of the SM fairy tale proposals and huge weddings I’ve seen haven’t lasted more than a few years.

If you cat talk about making a commitment and future plans then surely you have to question the relationship In the first instance.

don’t let anyone tell you he doesn’t want to marry you just because he’s not proposed after 5 years
Really?re-read that statement and the absurdity of it. The fact he’s not proposed to or married the op Is the absolute manifestation of a man who doesn’t want to get married

I was unromantic in that I told my exH I wanted to get married and gave him the year I expected us to get engaged. But that he could plan it however he wanted but if he hadn't done it by x month, I'd be proposing to him myself

He ended up doing it spontaneously while very drunk at a concert, using a beer pull as a ring. All our friends were around as well. I thought it was so him and loved him for it as it came from the heart. However, we then went to the park next day with champers etc, and staged a more 'traditional' proposal for our families and social media.

Point being - make it clear when you want to be engaged. If he wants to marry you he will. Don't get hung up on romance - someone committing to spend the rest of their life with you is romantic. However, if he's still dragging his feet and won't propose then you must consider if he does actually want to get married.

@HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee

don’t let anyone tell you he doesn’t want to marry you just because he’s not proposed after 5 years Really?re-read that statement and the absurdity of it. The fact he’s not proposed to or married the op Is the absolute manifestation of a man who doesn’t want to get married

I don't agree. I think it is the absolute manifestation of a man who isn't romantic and who doesn't want to stage a romantic proposal. He has told the op he wants to marry and have children, he is in no rush so the op needs to tell him she is ready, instead of holding out for something that isn't going to happen and is really fairly meaningless in the long run.

Have an honest discussion with him and see where it goes. I’d be careful about comparing myself to my friends as not all men are romantic. Having said that, some men just go with the convo but don’t really mean it. You’d know from your experiences with him if he’s that kind of