Engagement season - and an unromantic DP

[Daphne564]

Just need to get this off my chest as there’s no way I could admit to this in real life.

This Christmas period three, yes THREE of my very good friends have got engaged. All with really lovely, special stories and I am really happy for them, genuinely.

I also can’t help feeling wistful/envious. I’ve been with DP 5 years and although we have discussed getting married a bit, in the sense that we both do want to get married (to each other) and start a family eventually, DP seems in no rush.

He is good in many ways but also the world’s least romantic man, hates any kind of spontaneity and gets weirdly worried about spending too much money on things (when it suits) - so with these things combined, I really wonder whether he is ever going to propose.

Now, I know that I could ask him. I know I could just ‘have a conversation’ and we could very sensibly just decide to get married. However I would really really love for once for him to show some romance, some effort and to do sometime special. I don’t care that it’s an old fashioned way of looking at it. I want a nice proposal - nothing public but something that he has thought about.

We are both 32 nearly 33. I would like to have a baby before 35 ideally and we both agree being married first is best. So surely it’s got to happen soon?

My friends are all showing their rings in multiple Instagram posts, already wedding planning and I feel I am living vicariously through them!

I suppose I’d like to know if anyone else has been through the same with a similar DP and if they ever did end up married?

Who would want to marry someone who needed a threat/ultimatum to get him to the altar?

Nobody.

But EVERYBODY would want to know if their partner did feel like that. if they wanted a family before it's too late, so that they can get the fuck out.

@Daphne564
"...... THREE of my very good friends have got engaged. All with lovely, special stories....... My friends are all showing their rings in multiple Instagram posts......"

I read on Mumsnet -Don't judge your behind the scenes with someone else's showreel.

You've had great advice on here.
Put your cards on the table.
You'll know by his reaction whether he's a keeper.

My cousin has "wasted" her time with someone who wasn't committed.
They've split up again. No commitment once again.
She can hear her biological clock ticking and would so love to meet someone special.
L

I’d say stop waiting. You’ve allowed him that power over you too long. Power to keep you hanging on
So you acknowledge to him you’ve had the marriage discussion and both amenable. You then set a date,start making plans
If he dithers and prevaricates, there’s your answer,he doesn’t want to get married. In which case you have a choice to make. Stay, remain in cohabitation, have babies or go.leave,meet someone else.

First of all I totally get the disappointment. It sucks when things don’t happen as you had hoped for, and appear to be happening for other people. They key is APPEAR. You don’t know what goes on behind closed doors. Proposal could have been orchestrated by the woman, an unhappy relationship etc.

You need to focus on the marriage here rather than the proposal. As long as he does genuinely want to marry you and is thrilled to spend the rest of his life with you then chances are you will have a happy marriage, which is the most important thing.

As kids are important to you, I’d suggest setting a date and gauge his reaction. He may be absolutely thrilled and excited to get married and plan it! And that is very romantic in itself

Well whatever the poor bloke does now, you've spoiled it. Well done. 🙄

"I’ve been with DP 5 years and although we have discussed getting married a bit, in the sense that we both do want to get married (to each other) and start a family eventually, DP seems in no rush. ... We are both 32 nearly 33. I would like to have a baby before 35 ideally and we both agree being married first is best. So surely it’s got to happen soon?"

Well if you want to have a baby within the next three years then yes, the pair of you need to stop drifting and get a gildy on. You need to make it clear that fertility wanes and if you both want children, and you both agree being married first is best, you need to be setting a when.

As to the romance angle - I am not romantic. I genuinely think 'romance' is something of a con, trapping women in a submissive role in a bid to be all romantic like the films or the books.

I think it's far better to be practical. And looked at practically, your DP has said the right things (have children, marry first) but has taken no steps to make it happen. And neither have you, because you've been conned into wanting it to be all romantic. So just get on with it. Have the conversation, and the topic of conversation is "WHEN?". And if there is no definite 'when' than it's time to move on.

You cant change people.Dh is the most unromantic person ever,second only to my df as my dm would confirm! I love him and he puts me and ds first,he fancies me,has a good job he's just shit at romance Honestly don't overthink the proposal you'll just annoy and frustrate yourself if that's really not the person he is.

I have a relative with a gorgeous, romantic proposal story. All very fairytale, complete with the hand over mouth showing both surprise and the ring Instagram photo. There were tears and much slaps on back for her guy for being so romantic and giving her exactly what she wanted.
Except the reality is they had picked the ring together and she told him in so uncertain terms what she wanted for the proposal. Not a thing spontaneous about it.
However, he’s a nice guy, she’s happy and she gets to tell a somewhat unreal version of the tale to those not in the know.
I think you’ll find that more common than you think.

I can't believe women are still doing this. Surely you both decide you want to get married and then you plan it? We're not in a historical novel.

And if you're going to fret every time your totally unromantic bloke fails to be romantic you're going to be disappointed again and again.

If romance is that important you're with the wrong man. So best think long and hard.

What the hell is engagement season?

Have you disappeared op? I hope you are reading all this brilliant advice and not feeling got at, but feeling liberated instead from a possible future disaster.

I married very well indeed 14 years ago and with each year that passes, the whole proposal, dress, venue, guests become ever less relevant to our lives. You only need the right person.

I am very unromantic and have forgotten our wedding anniversary for the last three years but I love my husband and have the happiest of marriages because he is top notch.

OP I was you once. We had talked about marriage and knew we both wanted it and children but then nothing.

I thought we were on the same page but his engagement page was further back in the book than mine.

We did the MN frowned upon baby first and still no proposal. I had really wanted to get married first but never mind Hey.

We are now engaged after a lovely proposal and wedding is booked but do you know what I wish?

That I had just had that awkward conversation all those years ago and that I’d been clear on what was important to me. I wish I’d told him back then that I had wanted to get married within the next year or two it would have saved me some upset.

Yes it may well have reduced some of the ‘magic’ but for only a brief period which is better than the feelings of frustration and uncertainty.

I can guarantee you that those other couples will have had some form of that conversation to, especially the 9yr long one.

Please just talk to him, tell him that the lack of progression is hurting you and you need to discuss time frames.
Just think of it as the same as the conversation you must have had about moving in together.

That was a nice but also practical one wasn’t it?

Thought I'd weigh in with a guys perspective on this, as I see a fair amount of these posts and I've already had a few gin and tonics!

I'm not the most romantic of guys, I have my moments I guess, but my proposal wasn't out of this world, shall we say.

I had already, secretly, been scouting for rings and when my gf mentioned marriage over a hungover breakfast one morning, I let slip that I already knew which ring I was getting her. We then went to go and buy it together (she loved it thankfully) and then I proposed to her by the garden shed later that day.

So no, not exactly romantic!

That said, I KNEW, I wanted to marry her after around 6 months really. We were together 2 years before we got married, and had I not mentioned the ring, I would have proposed 'properly' within that month.

Anyway, point I wanted to make is that if a guy wants to get married, he'll propose. No question.

If its something he truly wants and cares about, he'll do it. I was also mindful of my gf's age and what that meant in terms of family. I knew she always wanted 3 children, so figuring one every two years, I knew it was a case of act now or regret it. For reference, we were the same ages as you, OP.

Five years is a VERY long time to be sitting on the fence, or be indifferent about a relationship you know you really want to be in. To my mind that length of time, at the stage you are in life and relationship suggests he's somewhat complacent or ambivalent about the relationship.

If he truly wanted you to be his wife, he'd have asked by now.

I can't speak for all men, of course, but in my experience, those I've known that have waited so long without proposing have been hedging their bets, as it were, or deep down knew that their partner wasn't genuinely the person they loved.

Sure, its nice to be have a proposal from a woman, but that said, I do sympathise with OP and similar posts - a desire to have at least some solid indication from their partner that marriage, family, commitment and a little romance is wanted isn't too big an ask when your five years in and into your 30s.

What is there to wait for at that stage in life, unless you're just a) not bothered or b) still unsure? In both cases, it's time he put his big boy pants on and made an adult decision about his future.

I honestly think that had I sat on the fence for 5 years, my wife would have binned me off without question for wasting her time.

Thankfully, thats not happened and we're now married with three kids - happily for the most part!

Different people have different definitions ofv omance but i would see somebody seeing things from my perspective like that romantic. That and cups of tea and hot water bottles 🍀💕

I know SO many women who lost their fertile years waiting for men who didn't love them enough to want to marry them. Then these men, who were all 'anti marriage' apparently then met women who they proposed to and had babies with. And it was too late for my friends.

Just accidentally getting pregnant is a disaster too - all the men I know that had this happen cheat. They resent their partners on some level but love their children. They feel deceived and so don't feel guilty deceiving back. And they don't want to lose their children so they stay.. but.

I also know one woman who forced her long term boyfriend into marriage, which lasted a year and she's now married to someone else, and has children.

So you have to have a proper real conversation and a proper real time frame. A limit of say 34 and if it's not happened it's over. You have the conversation, explain why you are doing it, tell him the time limit and then you drop the subject completely. You MUST look after yourself because trust me he will waste your fertility and not even know he's doing it. I think if he hasn't asked by now it's not happening but I could be wrong. Of course he could propose and string the actual wedding date out. That's another oldie but goodie. The consequences for you if you don't put this front and centre are dire. For him they are non existent. I see men marrying in their 50s for the first time.

OP, do you want the proposal for you or do you want it for the big insta / social media announcement?

I can honestly say I have no idea how any of my married friends got engaged or what their proposal "story" was.

Most likely because they mainly were married before social media documented everything single life event going.

I can understand you wanting your OH to demonstrate he cares and wants to marry you, but as others have said, you already know he's not that guy.

So I'd think carefully about why it is so important to you. If he shows you in other ways that he loves and cares for you then a big romantic gesture should be unnecessary. If he doesn't then I'd agree that he simply doesn't want to be married to you because if he did he would have asked you by now.

I know lots of people (us included ) who have kids first then get married later., what’s wrong with doing that?

Do you live together? I made it very clear to DH when we met that I wouldn't live with him or have any kids until we were married. Coming up to 2 years together I kept reminding him of that fact, as we had started looking at houses, and he proposed that Christmas. I had an inkling it was coming but not exactly when. So even although I had kind of pushed it, it was still nice and romantic for me. It might not sound romantic for people who want to be completely taken by surprise and not be expecting it, but it worked out pretty well for us.

Conversely, a friend of mine, who had been with her then boyfriend longer than DH and I was desperate to get married and he didn't seem fussed. She reminded him just before we got married that she wanted that and he grudgingly said it would come. 2 years later she reminded him again and he said the same thing. So she chucked him.

If you really want this, I think you need to get tough and give him an ultimatum. I know it sounds unromantic and boring but sometimes you need to take charge.

I don't think OP is coming back...

@Chumleymouse

I know lots of people (us included ) who have kids first then get married later., what’s wrong with doing that?

Nothing, so long as he follows through and actually marries you (which he obviously did) but there are so many threads on here by women who have moved in and had kids, weakening their economic position by doing so, then complain that he doesn't seem to want to get married. She makes all the sacrifices and he gives nothing back.

We were together 5 years before DH proposed, and friends for 14 years before that from childhood. I'd made it clear that whilst we'd discussed what we wanted from the future hypothetically, I wanted a proposal to show his genuine commitment (didn't have to be big or insta worthy), also that I would not even consider having children unless married, and he knew I had fertility issues so there was a time limit. He proposed not long after I turned 30, I think he was aware that was significant for me. We were on holiday and had just hiked up a dormant volcano, so I was dusty, sweaty and hot, there were no selfies or videos, it was just us but it was exactly what I wanted. He isn't the type to rush anything really, but never played games with me or made bitchy comments about others' engagements. I know several women who have moved in, bought houses, even had children on the promise of an engagement which never came, or the engagement did but then it was years and still no wedding. All have now split up.
Are you really compatible enough to get married?

@Chumleymouse

I know lots of people (us included ) who have kids first then get married later., what’s wrong with doing that?

There's nothing 'wrong' with it at all and it's great if all goes well. But it puts most women at an economic disadvantage due to the realities of society's current imbalanced attitude towards childcare and parenthood. Marriage is not just an exchange of vows, it is a legal protection for the parties involved that reduces the risk of one being left disadvantaged through parenthood.

Can you repeat that in English please. ?

I do often think this about the big weddings with the hashtags and the Insta stories

Ah, those traditional trappings we read about in the delicate novels of Jane Austen. I don't think OP is thinking about the actual life she wants with this actual man.

And by the way coquettish means behaving as if you might be up for it, then probably not being. It means being a tease; not being demure and going along with what your man likes. You're thinking of maidenly or pliable or some word like that.