Wife wants a ‘break’

[Struggling73]

Hi all.
On Christmas Eve my wife of 3 months (been together 18 months but known each other 12 years) declared she wasn’t happy and I wasn’t the man she met 18 months ago. I was in shock. I knew things weren’t quite right but I put it down to work stress or something similar. She didn’t say it was over, but that she needed time to figure things out, and she could only do that if I wasn’t there. I agreed I’d try and give her some space afte Xmas but then Xmas morning came and it was torture. I left before lunch and spent the day and night in my car.
I’m now crashing with family. I’m broken, confused and upset. I love her to bits but I think it’s over

Maybe accepting too little to begin with is a thing for you too. I am ploughing my way through john bradshaws books about "shame". I was a people pleaser. I gave too much. I didnt feel like i was enough. You can read a million self help books but it all comes back to the same issue imo.

That’s an interesting point. I suppose when the rawness of it all has gone I’ll be in a better place to analyse what went wrong

Hi Struggling,

I’m sorry that you are going through this.

I’m glad you have support from Mumsnet in this terribly dark time of yours. I am currently going through relationship difficulties and have been also supported by lovely Mumsnetters as well so l know how much it means.

Your wife has behaved very badly out of the blue at a time of year where emotions run high. My husband out of the blue admitted to some 25 year old indiscretions while we were on holiday four months ago. He blamed it on his OCD and intrusive thoughts.

Undoubtedly your wife and my husband are/were really struggling. The connection l see is a frightening lack of empathy for us as partners and a real lack of care to our well being. Throwing you out in that way was treating you worse than an animal. My husband didn’t think about my well being at all, just couldn’t bear the burden of guilt.

Relationships can be really hard work. Most partnerships face tough times. However if you can’t trust your partner to show basic caregiving towards you in difficult times then the future begins to look very shaky.

I have been sorely tempted to ask my husband to leave to give me space but have resisted up to now. Despite his shortcomings this is his home too. It’s so difficult when relationships break down to decide who gets what and who goes where.

I think the incident with the coffee cup has just highlighted how difficult it is going to be to share a space with your wife while you sort things through.

I wonder if you could ask your wife to write down her grievances, her issues......you say you got lazy....what surrounded this...maybe you didn’t realise how important certain things were to her.

My husband thought we had a happy marriage and banked on that to pull us through. I have found it more of a mixed bag with this current issue pushing us over the edge. He completely underestimated my feelings. You do not know what is going through your partners mind.

The pandemic has put enormous pressure on relationships- don’t underestimate how suffocating the working from home/seeing each other all the time can be especially if your laziness has manifested in being scruffy/untidy/leaving a trail around the house.

I am not condoning her behaviour though - l think you have seen her at her worst and you know she will never have your best interests at heart.

Take care

@Whatdirection

Hi Struggling,

I’m sorry that you are going through this.

I’m glad you have support from Mumsnet in this terribly dark time of yours. I am currently going through relationship difficulties and have been also supported by lovely Mumsnetters as well so l know how much it means.

Your wife has behaved very badly out of the blue at a time of year where emotions run high. My husband out of the blue admitted to some 25 year old indiscretions while we were on holiday four months ago. He blamed it on his OCD and intrusive thoughts.

Undoubtedly your wife and my husband are/were really struggling. The connection l see is a frightening lack of empathy for us as partners and a real lack of care to our well being. Throwing you out in that way was treating you worse than an animal. My husband didn’t think about my well being at all, just couldn’t bear the burden of guilt.

Relationships can be really hard work. Most partnerships face tough times. However if you can’t trust your partner to show basic caregiving towards you in difficult times then the future begins to look very shaky.

I have been sorely tempted to ask my husband to leave to give me space but have resisted up to now. Despite his shortcomings this is his home too. It’s so difficult when relationships break down to decide who gets what and who goes where.

I think the incident with the coffee cup has just highlighted how difficult it is going to be to share a space with your wife while you sort things through.

I wonder if you could ask your wife to write down her grievances, her issues......you say you got lazy....what surrounded this...maybe you didn’t realise how important certain things were to her.

My husband thought we had a happy marriage and banked on that to pull us through. I have found it more of a mixed bag with this current issue pushing us over the edge. He completely underestimated my feelings. You do not know what is going through your partners mind.

The pandemic has put enormous pressure on relationships- don’t underestimate how suffocating the working from home/seeing each other all the time can be especially if your laziness has manifested in being scruffy/untidy/leaving a trail around the house.

I am not condoning her behaviour though - l think you have seen her at her worst and you know she will never have your best interests at heart.

Take care

Hi, thank you for this.
I’m really sorry you’re going through tough times too. It’s horrible isn’t it. If i may I’ll pick up on a small but very important part of your post -maybe you didn’t realise how important certain things were to her. I think you are must probably right. And that’s where there has been a communication breakdown. Sometimes you've got to spell things out otherwise how is your partner supposed to know. I do t suppose I’ll ever really know the full and clear reason she did this. I will however continue to dissect my own part in things and use that as a springboard to make some personal improvements. I’m not talking about fundamentally changing as a person (impossible), more looking at small changes I can make to make me a better person. I’ve thought all sorts this last week. Do I drink too much? Did I get too out of shape? Did I watch too much tv? Did I leave clothes on the floor too often? Easy things to correct.

But surely, if you think you were too messy, too lazy, drank too much, watched too much tv, you knew this, before Christmas Eve?

Was she telling you this, and you didn't listen?
If so, why should she believe you will change, now?

And if you recognise you were like that, why didn't you change, before Christmas Eve?

And why did she think this is enough to kick him out in the pandemic after 3 months of marriage and make him sleep in the car at Christmas, Catmaiden?

You sound awfully preachy, I have to say, like a little judgemental Miss Perfect. It's usually the case that posters like this are indeed very far from perfection themselves.

These questions, or equivalent, are something that most of us could ask ourselves. And most of us don't immediately act to change these things because we're human and imperfect.

None of them justify kicking your partner out after 3 months.

OP has clearly acknowledged them from the start and you're taking strange pleasure in kicking him when he's at the bottom, interesting how you have no issue in doing so, it's far from perfect.

I don’t recognise I was like that.... I’m pointing out everything I’ve started to question, not that it was necessarily true. I’m second guessing at things because I just don’t know.
And no..... nothing was ever discussed before Christmas Eve... hence the huge shock. Although not a long amount of time, we’ve been living together for 18 months.... although I recognise I have flaws (as everyone does), I didn’t suddenly change in those nearly 4 months we’ve married.

I'm certainly not "little miss preachy" (wtf even IS that?)

I am, however, a survivor of serious DV, sexual and emotional and financial abuse. I escaped, had a load of councelling, found a new relationship (which has lasted for 40 years, and is failing due to issues unrelated to any conventionally recognised abusive behaviour )
I'm also a sexual and DV councellor and advocate, teacher and Safeguarding officer, and advise and help survivors of abuse to recognise ( and if they want, escape) abuse.

The OP may well be genuine. Or maybe, not.

OP seems intelligent and self-aware enough to have picked up on own character flaws or behavior that may have lead to this. He's not a mind reader and she should have spoke to him if things were bothering her.

OP I would stop defending yourself.

The making herself own coffee incident alone speaks volumes.

Sorry "little miss perfect"
Is that a new Mr Men character I missed out on, first time around?

This is one hell of a journey for you, OP, but when you get to the end of this particularly tricky and painful portion, I think you will have acquired a considerable amount of wisdom and experience which will be very useful for the future.

Given how quickly your marriage broke down, and the fact that she hasn’t tried to fight for it, I think it’s not really about you but much more about her realising that she doesn’t want to be married or that the basis for the marriage wasn’t what it needed to be. You were a port in a storm and from what you’ve told us she pushed for marriage early on and then there would have been all the excitement of preparing for the wedding - none of which was about real life. Because you had been a port in a storm she felt unduly let down when it was no longer all about you supporting her. I am speculating and could be miles off, of course.

She's playing you !!

The things you are thinking could have contributed to the break down of your marriage are problems that would be raised.
You don't leave someone for leaving clothes on the floor without mentioning it many times and then being ignored or shouted at about it.
I would stop trying to work out what you've done wrong because if she won't tell you you'll never know. Also why do you think it's something you've done. Maybe she's changed her mind or she has had her head turned.

Why is she ignoring you ? All you did was come back to your house. Is it because your not doing what she wants you too. Again she's trying to control you.

She is pushing buttons , ignoring tea text but worse than that passively aggressively making herself another cup.

She's being loud with her children celebrating new year. She wants you to hear this. Pushing buttons.

Do you think she's trying to get you to leave the house? She may be trying to get the house. She may have tried to bide time to get her ducks in a row legally.

She's really being clever here. You need to be very careful and get legal advise ASAP.

OK, Catmaiden, thank you for your CV, but your personal experience or qualifications are irrelevant to OP's situation. Now maybe you could simply be fair and not kick a man in a bad place. There's no reason to suspect OP is a terrible man that you seem to think and allege he is. You got massively carried away.

@Catmaiden

But surely, if you think you were too messy, too lazy, drank too much, watched too much tv, you knew this, before Christmas Eve?

Was she telling you this, and you didn't listen?
If so, why should she believe you will change, now?

And if you recognise you were like that, why didn't you change, before Christmas Eve?

This post goes too far. Are you sure you're a counsellor? You do realise it sounds like 'you should have changed, it's all your fault' right?

If this was addressed to a woman there'd be uproar.

Many of us on MN have been victims of abuse. Some of us for almost all our lives but we are still capable of realising that not all men are bad and not all women are good.

From what you have posted here Catmaiden you must be pretty shit at your job.

OP,

As PP said, you wont have changed enough in the last 3 months to have caused this.

She has changed. She will hardly admit to you that she made a mistake so will deflect it all on to you rather than be the bad guy.

I imagine she's not happy to not have been given time to work through her dilemma.
You must have said something as you walked back in ?
Surely you had some sort of conversation? like you realize she is having a major crisis, or rethink about your relationship, but it is not possible for you to be homeless under the circumstances, you can't afford it, you need internet, it is also your home/family/pets. That you hope that you can be civil, you have known each other for a long time, you haven't suddenly become a monster .That there has clearly been a serious breakdown in communications & you accept that there are things you could have done differently. However where does she see this going? does she want to go for counselling ?
The coffee incident was petty & her sulking is not going to help.

She may have got to the point of no return, It does sound like you have been taking her for granted & treating her like a maid ..

Im sorry what you went through catmaiden but are you sure you are actually a Councellor? Because you seem to have had a bad abusive relationship and let it cloud your opinion of all men and you seem to be applying your abuse to a situation that has no indication of being abusive at all. Theres zero impartiality in your posts at all, you have swept on, seen op is a male and decided instantly its all his fault.

@Mix56 got to the point of no return without even discussing anything at all first?

If she moved out she could have had as much time and space as she wanted to think things through.

I can't see anything to suggest he's been taking her for granted or treating her as a maid. Other than some vague mental clutching at straws on his part at what could be in her head. Either way she should have spoke to him.

On the information presented I don't see how anyone rational could see this as anything other than unjust behaviour towards OP.

@Shaniac

Im sorry what you went through catmaiden but are you sure you are actually a Councellor? Because you seem to have had a bad abusive relationship and let it cloud your opinion of all men and you seem to be applying your abuse to a situation that has no indication of being abusive at all. Theres zero impartiality in your posts at all, you have swept on, seen op is a male and decided instantly its all his fault.

I don't think that's fair, and you certainly can't say zero impartiality has been shown when the poster you refer to has explicitly said "The OP may well be genuine. Or maybe, not."

The nature of these forums is that we hear the story the poster wishes to present to the world - we are all guilty of this, we all have our own narrative, we all wish to secure validation of what we present.

We rarely hear the other side. There was one memorable occasion when the female partner of a male partner who had garnered a lot of support started posting in response to him and that was truly eye-opening, but it was a bit of shit-show too and got pulled pretty quickly.

People who respond naturally get invested in threads - especially when they are name-checked by OPs. They become more invested in shoring up their original positions - is impartiality really possible under these circumstances?

The truth is that posts like these are like histories told by the victor in battle - there is no access to the opponent's account to be able to truly judge what has actually happened.

You get one account only, and sometimes you get very good, honest, frank and introspective accounts, and sometimes you don't - and there is literally no way of knowing!

So we all comment however we think, but we don't really know the facts of the matter. I think it's good to have a variety of opinions and advice - OPs can take from it what they will, it will help them truly examine their situations and consider possibilities. And they should discount what they know, after honest reflection, does not hold true for them.

Well thats veey true we only have one account that could be all bollocks, but my point is rather we only have one point of view to go on so why come on to deliberately decide the person is lying/wrong. Didnt the me too campaign try to get people to believe each other and not automatically go on the assumption they are lying?

I agree with Shaniac.

I think there's a lot of posters playing devil's advocates on MN or openly bashing the posters where there is no reason for it. Ultimately, OPs will always be in a position where only their part of their story is heard and they can hardly be blamed for it. Most posters look for support not for grilling. I also think that throughout a longer thread, it is possible to gauge how genuine the poster in question is. We may be wrong. We may be wasting our time. But we may be helping someone who is honest and needs it. Ultimately, it's everyone's personal choice and no one, literally no one needs posters making up an alternative reality just because it fits in with their made up narrative. This doesn't help anyone. If you want to find out more before posting, just ask OP. We have to base our comments on what we know, otherwise what is the point?

There doesn't need to be any lying for there to be different accounts of a history. There will always be different takes on a situation.

The concerns haven't come out of nowhere - they're in response to throwing a cup against a wall in response to (what I would consider at least) a very low level of provocation.

I don't think it's always helpful to an OP to simply give unquestioning support. And of course a big caveat there as there are some posts that are written by OPs who are detailing incredibly abusive situations. But on other occasions it is more helpful to consider alternative viewpoints to see if they offer options for reflection / ways forward.

That's why I said ask questions to OP, but don't automatically accuse him of far worse, don't jump to conclusions and use big words when we simply do not know the full story. Support should be given unless there are clear signs that OP isn't genuine and doesn't deserve it. I don't see such signs here. I don't understand some posters being so hung up on an incident not involving anyone else at all. Some posters on MN seem to read so much into things and automatically think that if someone throws a cup, pen, pillow [insert any other small object] in anger/emotions in an empty room without involvement of third parties they are an abuser. It's ridiculous. I'd be livid if my partner treated me like OP's wife has and the coffee incident was pure gaslighting on her part, cherry on top of what looks like a pretty nasty cake she's made for him. I'd have probably left it for her to do the washing up, but then this would probably be passive aggressive according to some

(Still in a cup, to rot).