Just told DH we don't have to have sex anymore. For his sake.

[Xmasdaymam]

We just had a big weepy chat by the kitchen sink whilst the kids were playing with their new toys.

We'd been a bit quiet for the past couple of days since I lightly asked if we could have sex sometime this week (it's been 2 months) and he went "Welllllll...." and I was like "wow, shot down!" and he tried to explain but I said "no need, let's just enjoy our night". And we did have a nice night but he was very quiet and preoccupied. There was no need to explain because I knew it was just that he didn't want to.

Because it has been 16 years of me raising the subject every couple of months. And yes we do usually have sex every couple of months. And we both enjoy it SOOO much. And say "we must do that more often". But then it disappears in him for another couple of months and tbh if I had no sex drive we would be completely sexless and he would be fine.

So this morning he asked if I was cross with him and I said I was more cross with myself because I should have said nothing. Because I KNEW. The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different answer. And I was sorry for raising it at all, and I needed to accept him the way he was.

And then he got very upset and was like what kind of man am I? I'm supposed to do this. He said "it's never been in me. Not even when I was 19. The other lads would be mad for it and I couldn't understand it because I never needed it at all". And there were tears and us both apologising to each other, him for being the way he is and me for being the way I am.

I told him we could just be pals. Because we are such great pals. He said he didn't want that, that we could find a compromise but I pointed out that the past 16 years have been a compromise and I don't want pity shags every 6 months to keep me happy. I have a vibrator, I will keep my mouth shut and manage. He hates the thought of me unhappy. But I told him I have to learn to be happy with a different kind of relationship and I will keep my needs behind closed doors with my vibrator.

So then I went to have a shower but I am just in the bedroom crying. I wish I was different. I should be different. There are so many women on here who are happy if they never have sex again. I know I can't chop off my groin. But sometimes I wish I could and we would be content, we would be pals forever.

He has never masterbated, he has zero interest in porn. He's definitely not gay. He's just possibly asexual, or at least on that spectrum. I remember when we first moved in together getting a shock that we weren't all over each other now that we had our own place.

We only had sex twice on honeymoon and tbh I initiated both times and the second time was only because he sensed I was getting upset.

I am devastated. I am only 45. I am such a sexual person. I always have been. I want to be wanted so bad. I want to be fancied. But I have realised that if I was a man coming on here and he was the woman, I would get my arse handed to me for not accepting her the way she is.

Please guide me in how to have a sexless relationship that is still close and sweet. Because we love each other so much and I don't want to feel myself pulling away from all affection. But I fear I will do it unconsciously and it will actually affect our marriage going forward.

I get what you mean about not leaving OP. I wouldnt leave my DH over sex however much I like it, I'm happy for you that you have found someone so lovely. Plenty of men out there with high sex drives and fuck all else to offer.

Counselling for you both sounds wonderful. Best of luck

It’s the fact he wants to and does play that is the giveaway here.

If he has no sexual desire unless touched what makes him want to solo? He clearly has an urge to it’s not something you do because you bored and if it is then you can have sex because you are bored too.

He is not telling full truths here. His dropping crumbs as reasons why those crumbs won’t be the truth either but they are making you feel better so his off the hook again.

+1 for "come as you are"
& looking up "responsive desire" - it might make a lot of things add up, from what OP has put down in this thread.

OP as someone else said it is generous of you to share so much and so frankly.

How do you square your latest chat with the knowledge of how often he masturbates? That would trouble me.

Responsive Desire is not something either of us had ever heard of, but it turns out its almost exactly what's going on here.

Am starting to realise I understood very little about this whole subject. All along I just thought men = see woman, get turned on. So what was going on? Whereas nobody thinks that of women. Indeed often I felt like I was the one with the "male" desire.

We are so conditioned to think that men must be always up for it, and if not they are either gay or asexual or depressed.

Whereas if women have a low libido, it's because life is just filling up her mind too much and it's another thing on their list of tasks. Even if they enjoy it once they're getting down to it.

He has been doing a lot of researching in the meantime.

I am at work again so can't say much but we are still talking more frankly than at any time before. We are ironically very emotionally intimate and it's nice. In a wierd way, we are proud of ourselves.

That sounds great OP. Sounds like you have a great connection and a commitment to try and make this better. I’m going to look into responsive desire too.

Those who are fixated on the fact that your DH masturbates are missing how much different sex with a partner is to self pleasure. Yes if he was excessively doing so it could be the cause but it really doesn’t sound like that at all. I don’t think he a was deceiving you at all but like a lot of us do, burying his head in the sand as it was a difficult topic and he had shame that he wasn’t fulfilling the stereotype of male = up for sex at all times.

Good luck!

No, we've talked about it. It's like twice a month. And sounds very perfunctory.

Which is not that different from what I thought all along really.

And I do separate the two acts very much. In that I don't think it's some sort of betrayal to do that. It doesn't mean his libido is somehow higher, it's
still really just low and has less triggers than I imagined.

But what we've been talking about is explicitly what actually does work for him and that has been helpful. It's 90% a tactile thing for him, whereas for me it's 90% my imagination.

We're still no nearer to figuring out what our future sex life will actually look like since we're so different. But we're clarifying a lot about our own individual natures and are committed to figuring out something that works for both of us.

Lots of work still to do though.

We are so conditioned to think that men must be always up for it, and if not they are either gay or asexual or depressed.

It’s not really conditioning, though, is it? More of a biological imperative. Most men (and women) do experience sexual urges and desire. It’s not unreasonable to go into a marriage with the expectation that your husband will desire you.

But what we've been talking about is explicitly what actually does work for him and that has been helpful.

Make sure you talk about your needs as well. You’ve had over 16 years of good sex but without being treated as a sexual, desirable woman. It’s important that he acknowledges that he’s deprived you of that and that even though you love him and will stay with him you have compromised and suffered losses.

Hi @Xmasdaymam the thing that jumps out at me is that the communication in your relationship seems very loaded. Men get pressure to perform too, they might feel not so positive about their body, they might feel guilt, have fantasies they feel they cannot talk about. They might feel their erection is not as good as it was or they have to perform. My point is that men experience sexual dysfunction too and in a different way.
I think it is superb that you want to be friends, that you love him, but I cannot help wonder if you worked on communication that you might both thrive.
Having a loaded and repetitive conversation about sex where there is only one right answer while the kids are up is bound to end awfully. Why did you bring it up then? I am not blaming you for asking btw.
I think you need to safely (with a professional) explore intimacy and your concept of what that is?
Is it about non stop regular sex? fantasy? no sex?
Who gets to choose? Who makes the rules? What if someone wants a break?
So, what you describe would make me as a man feel very cornered. This is a pattern that is habitual for you both- you both play a specific role in this problem.
For me, as a man in my 40's I have actually been really challenged by sex. My penis does not work like before, I don't feel as turned on, thats just aging and is not a problem once my wife knows its not her and we have ups and downs in our sex drives.
What was fantastic for us was to read and watch Esther Perel. Sex starts in your mind first and you have to learn to problem solve together honestly without fear of reprisal or disengagement. Sorry for the essay! You both sound lovely.
Good luck! There are compromises all the time and that goes for both of you. Where is your common ground, shared values and things you agree on?

OP, I haven't read the full thread, but offering you a big squeeze because I've been there.
My experience went sadness > open relationship > separation > divorce.
But it sounds like you adore each other and will find a path through this. Just don't let sadness turn into resentment, that's deadly.

Your continued conversation and communication is a positive sign. He's not in denial...he's not blaming you...he's trying to explore from within to find out why. So often couples hit a road block in this area, so you do have a lot in your favour.

You're getting varied responses as you might expect...but don't let the ones that come across as negative upset you.... there are some really judgemental and harsh posts.

He says he loves his wife but does not satisfy her sexually and knows this makes her unhappy. Yet he masterbates on his own knowing he would rather pleasure himself than his wife. He may have a low sex drive but he could at least share what little drive he has with you. He is not a nice man as he is actively choosing to exclude you from the little sex he has despite knowing he is being unfair to you. He sounds gay but in denial. You say he does not even give you oral sex. He sounds Incredibally selfish and has some how made you feel you should be the one to go without sex, whilst he pleasures himself, so not a low sex drive problem. Putting up with no sex if he cannot perform is one thing, but knowing he prefers to do it alone and exclude you is so disrespectful to you. I don't know how you can't feel totally rejected by that.

[quote Namechangednorth]@Xmasdaymam

I bet on some level he wants to have sex after our talk. Not because of any desire though. To make me feel better, because he is upset that I'm upset. I bet if I initiated tonight, he'd gladly do it.

This is what would kill me to the point that I wouldn't want sex...that he was having sex to please me or out of pity. Makes me realise that having a DH that wants sex so much is a blessing. There isn't many a time when we go to bed, if we don't have sex we always cuddle and he loves going to sleep either with his hand cupping my boob or rested down between my legs and I love he so wants to.

I get the message that you couldn't leave him...but what you need to prepare yourself for as a possibility is at some point, another guy turning your head and you get a feeling in your currently deadened loins which makes you weaken. That's how many women have affairs I think.

Good luck in his GP tests. I would also get him to promise to stop masturbating completely as given his libido is low that won't help[/quote]
Yes. My partner had a low sex drive phase for a while. He usually has a decent one. Whilst we still did it, it was much reduced. When I talked about it he would then initiate, but I couldn't shake the notion that he was doing it only for me and I still felt undesired. It's horrible!

@caringcarer

He says he loves his wife but does not satisfy her sexually and knows this makes her unhappy. Yet he masterbates on his own knowing he would rather pleasure himself than his wife. He may have a low sex drive but he could at least share what little drive he has with you. He is not a nice man as he is actively choosing to exclude you from the little sex he has despite knowing he is being unfair to you. He sounds gay but in denial. You say he does not even give you oral sex. He sounds Incredibally selfish and has some how made you feel you should be the one to go without sex, whilst he pleasures himself, so not a low sex drive problem. Putting up with no sex if he cannot perform is one thing, but knowing he prefers to do it alone and exclude you is so disrespectful to you. I don't know how you can't feel totally rejected by that.

@caringcarer Black and white thinking as you display above with the objective of blaming the other partner usually makes things worse. Its a pretty poor way of resolving conflict.

This could describe us to a tee.

We now approach the issue with a sense of humour as nothing else works. We're middle-aged now so things aren't working physically as well, so it's all a bit needing pragmatic management.

I've also got ADHD and there's apparently lots of issues connected with that and intimacy. I can see how that worked in the dynamic we have and it's been interesting mapping that out.

Wouldn't be with anyone else but yep, can be a bit trying, much empathy!

It's excellent that you both can communicate and discuss this, and how to resolve this. All I would say is, you should treat this as serious a relationship challenge as if one of you had debt to clear, or different opinions on where to live.

i.e it is a very serious, fundamental difference that requires compromise from both, but empathy in particular from him. I know you say there's enough love there that this isn't so important. However, you're staring down the the barrel of 40-50 more years. That's a lot of life, with just a vibrator. And you might find yourself a lot more resentful and upset in 10 years, 20 years, 30 years than you are now. Or you might meet someone who looks at you in a way that sparks you, and makes you realise a deep friendship is not the be all, end all of a lifetime partnership. So make sure he takes this seriously, and completely rules out any medical/treatable conditions. You are past the point of worrying about his ego - it's a problem, he acknowledges it's a problem - rule of every cause before you settle for this, as the rest of your life.