Just told DH we don't have to have sex anymore. For his sake.

[Xmasdaymam]

We just had a big weepy chat by the kitchen sink whilst the kids were playing with their new toys.

We'd been a bit quiet for the past couple of days since I lightly asked if we could have sex sometime this week (it's been 2 months) and he went "Welllllll...." and I was like "wow, shot down!" and he tried to explain but I said "no need, let's just enjoy our night". And we did have a nice night but he was very quiet and preoccupied. There was no need to explain because I knew it was just that he didn't want to.

Because it has been 16 years of me raising the subject every couple of months. And yes we do usually have sex every couple of months. And we both enjoy it SOOO much. And say "we must do that more often". But then it disappears in him for another couple of months and tbh if I had no sex drive we would be completely sexless and he would be fine.

So this morning he asked if I was cross with him and I said I was more cross with myself because I should have said nothing. Because I KNEW. The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different answer. And I was sorry for raising it at all, and I needed to accept him the way he was.

And then he got very upset and was like what kind of man am I? I'm supposed to do this. He said "it's never been in me. Not even when I was 19. The other lads would be mad for it and I couldn't understand it because I never needed it at all". And there were tears and us both apologising to each other, him for being the way he is and me for being the way I am.

I told him we could just be pals. Because we are such great pals. He said he didn't want that, that we could find a compromise but I pointed out that the past 16 years have been a compromise and I don't want pity shags every 6 months to keep me happy. I have a vibrator, I will keep my mouth shut and manage. He hates the thought of me unhappy. But I told him I have to learn to be happy with a different kind of relationship and I will keep my needs behind closed doors with my vibrator.

So then I went to have a shower but I am just in the bedroom crying. I wish I was different. I should be different. There are so many women on here who are happy if they never have sex again. I know I can't chop off my groin. But sometimes I wish I could and we would be content, we would be pals forever.

He has never masterbated, he has zero interest in porn. He's definitely not gay. He's just possibly asexual, or at least on that spectrum. I remember when we first moved in together getting a shock that we weren't all over each other now that we had our own place.

We only had sex twice on honeymoon and tbh I initiated both times and the second time was only because he sensed I was getting upset.

I am devastated. I am only 45. I am such a sexual person. I always have been. I want to be wanted so bad. I want to be fancied. But I have realised that if I was a man coming on here and he was the woman, I would get my arse handed to me for not accepting her the way she is.

Please guide me in how to have a sexless relationship that is still close and sweet. Because we love each other so much and I don't want to feel myself pulling away from all affection. But I fear I will do it unconsciously and it will actually affect our marriage going forward.

We've been having sex consistently for 16 years. I've said repeatedly that sexual function has never been an issue.

This exploration was about why we usually go 6-8 weeks in between without any initiation by him and how I suspected it would be even longer if not for me.

Of course many times I have gotten a result by touching him. But that was not what was upsetting me.

He is not an inanimate church bell to be yanked on to make it work.

I don’t think the H is ever going to say that he doesn’t want to have sex with the op because he doesn’t fancy her. It’s too late for that comment without it ending the marriage. Perhaps he doesn’t want to end the marriage.

Imagine someone saying that to a man who has a wife with a low libido:

"You just need to touch her and not mention it in advance and you will be having lots of sex."

Coffeeandcocopops I have said that our definitions of fancying are different.

And I said that bluntly to him this morning.

Like I said, there's a counselling road ahead and I don't know where it leads.

But to the truth, if nowhere else.

It's very generous of you to share all this OP🙏

I have a friend who once confided in me whilst drunk that she and her DH have always had sexual issues. Though because of his obesity and his drinking. They basically only do it when they're a bit pissed, and then he loses his erection halfway through. And there's a physical impediment in his stomach.

They only do it every couple of months too.

Compared to her I felt lucky. We were at the same frequency but he has no erectile problems and is stone cold sober when we have sex.

So you see how you hear stories and think "I shouldn't complain, this must be normal". So you lurch from denial to anxiety and back to denial again.

I'm asexual and all the guys I've had relationships with have not been as nice as you, all I got was constant sulking, nagging and pressurising. It was unbearable. I don't have relationships any more because men are selfish shits.
i think he owes you an explanation though, if he is asexual or whatever he should come clean. Maybe he doesn't know what that is.

I'm in a relationship were we no longer have sex, premenopause I had a very high sex drive and was permanently furious about not getting what I wanted
Post menopause I have almost no sex drive, I'm probably happier... the constant need for sex was not a good thing

Hi Op - I am your husband. Not literally, obviously. But sex-wise. I have never, ever been interested in it. Not once. As a young teenager, we were told in biology class - "you will get urges..." and I remember thinking, what the heck is an "urge?". I still don't know what an "urge" feels likes. I'm now almost 40, and have zero drive. I never think about it. I never dream about it. I never fantasise about it. I'm told that "I must have a hormone imbalance", "i need to see a doctor"....why? Why do I NEED to want sex? If it's purely for the sake of someone else, is that right? Is it because people must insist I would "love it" if only I could be "fixed?".

I've been married 20 years. I love my husband deeply, I think he is the most wonderful, handsome man I have ever met....but I feel no sexual urges for anyone. I can get turned on by seeing a sexual scene, but not through desire for the people. I do not enjoy the act of sex, but not because my husband is bad at it. I'm sick of people telling me there must be something wrong with me, I'm sick of society thinking everyone must love sex. Equally however, I know full well my husband has needs, and I try to accomodate that where I can, once a week and a half or so, but it's not especially easy for me, because the sheer act itself puts me off, not him at all as a human being. I kind of dread sex time, not because of him, but purely because I don't like the act itself. He is GOOD at sex, and completely unselfish. I just don't, and never have, wanted or liked the act itself.

People who say "just get a fuck buddy" - also do not understand, at all. As if you're just an animal that needs to grind on a cock. It's not about that. It's about being and feeling close to the person you love and adore, not always just having a cock pounding in and out from some stranger. DH knows how I feel, and always has. I suspect if I denied him sex forever however....I'm not sure we would be able to stay together. From what he explains, he needs to "feel desired, feel close to someone", but I find it hard to get my head around as a concept, because surely it's just because he's horny and needs a warm body that's not his hand to cum inside? I honestly don't understand it, from my point of view, but I wish I did. I wish I was "normal" and had this drive everyone talks about having. But I don't, and so we have to compromise, and honestly I know he wants it more but I simply can't.

I think that if your dh is your best friend, op, the likelihood of finding that again PLUS sexual compatibility is rare. You could meet someone you have similar feelings for, but the sex is shit. What's the toss up though? Risk losing him forever, to go and find someone yo might be able to get close to also and have regular sex with? I don't have an answer for you op, but I hear your pain and sadness, I've seen my own dh display the same, and it's taken a long, long time of trying to show him it's not him I don't want, I thikn he mostly understands now, but it's not easy for him. I wouldn't blame him for leaving if he wanted someone to have regular sex with. I wouldn't understand it, but I wouldn't blame him.

I guess, imagine you are 10 years down the line. You've not had sex in a decade, but you've remained with your absolute best friend. Try and picture what you would regret the least, in 10 years - 10 years without him, or 10 years with him but 10 years of solo masterbation? I'm sorry I don't have any ready answers.

I feel really sad for you as I've been in a similar position.

After several years of feeling rejected because of his lower sex drive, I did more or less what you're suggesting and kind of trained myself not to want sex anymore.

Unfortunately this has now gone too far the other way, and the total lack of intimacy means I've gone off him altogether and don't love him anymore. I thought I could just accept being in a platonic relationship but it's not working and now I'm in the awful position of wanting to end our marriage but at the same time feeling devastated at the thought of it, I can't even bear to think of all the upheaval.

You sound like you're younger than me, I would tell my younger self to try couples counselling/sex therapy rather than go the way I did and try and switch it off.

I would suggest a possibility that he was sexually abused at a young age and that it's put him off the act of sex. That he may enjoy it when he does it but the thinking about it it's stressful and triggering..he may not even really realise or remember. I had a friend with similar and this issue surfaced many years later.

If he has said sex is not off the agenda completely, you both enjoy it in the moment, and you struggle with the not knowing when it'll happen again, how about making it more of a planned event? Can your kids go to grandparents once a month, you both have a relaxed night where sex is planned? That takes away the pressure from your DH, and you sort yourself out in between?

It's good he's going to the GP.

That's interesting about his mind racing too.

I have GAD and starting a daily meditation practice has worked wonders.
Hopefully the GP will let him try a small dose of testosterone.

That would be amazing if some small tweaks was all that was needed.

I actually think, from what you've posted, that counselling could have an excellent outcome for you both.

I think you both need to unpack a few things, work through your expectations and find a new way forward.

I think you have a good work around to a decent sex life - it sounds like if you initiate things he can respond, you just think that this is not the way it should always have to be.

But that's life - things don't always go to our ideal expectations; there are always imperfections, problems, difficulties, new challenges at every turn. Just because things don't meet the ideal in our heads doesn't mean there aren't very valuable and rewarding ways forward.

It sounds like you've got a work-around - many couples don't, so don't knock it!

It sounds like he is feeling a lot of pressure and that can be a killer for sex lives too. All those thoughts that he's having during sex can raise anxiety. The more expectations that are felt around sex the harder it can be to want to have it.

I’m sorry OP but there is something about this that doesn’t add up. He masturbates so he is interested in sex. He knows how you feel so instead of masturbating why doesn’t he have sex with you? He has known for 16 years how you feel about this but hasn’t done anything about it , I’m never heard of a best friend or a good husband that ignores needs for 16 years

Well I dont think he's going to change after all this time. If you're prepared to have a sexless life then thats OK. My ex was similar to your dh, we ended up in separate bedrooms and I left him, I couldn't live a life without the sexual connection. Oddly he did also masturbate I think, I assume I just didn't arouse him. I dont think he's had a girlfriend for several years now.

That's a very interesting thing you've just found out about his overthinking and buzzing head.
I have ADHD too and suffer hugely with this (the intrusive thoughts and lack of sleep and busy mind) and although my disability plays it's part, I think for me that it's childhood trauma.
I did get to the point of having a peaceful mind and sleeping better by mediation and attending a Buddhist centre and listening to the teachings.
I pushed myself too hard and had ridiculous expectations so I'm back to square 1, but it also means with gentleness and acceptance I can start to calm my head down again.
It sounds like your husband finds it hard to be in the moment and let go of thoughts.
Really think about what I mentioned.
Google 'Tara Brach' and listen to some of her work. Brene Brown and Ruby Wax are also very good.
Well done for unearthing some of the underlying cause.

I have to realise I'm effectively living without the male gaze. As a feminist, that's posing some big questions for me. Do I want that? Or not? Lots to unpick in myself.

Surely context is everything? With strangers and acquaintances frank sexual evaluation is belittling. With your husband, who already loves you for your many other qualities, him looking at you with sexual desire adds another dimension to your relationship.

@Xmasdaymam

Imagine someone saying that to a man who has a wife with a low libido:

"You just need to touch her and not mention it in advance and you will be having lots of sex."

Ehrm that’s what you wrote? I was just quoting you back. You told us. All sixteen million of us, he reacts to touch and is raring to go if you touch him but if you tell him in advance, schedule it, then he over thinks it. You even graphically told us exactly what he thinks about. I’ve no idea why you’re now pissed about it being repeated back to you.

If what he says is true then I agree that’s it’s positive.

He doesn’t feel sexual desire but he loves you and wants to please you. He doesn’t like oral sex but when you touch him spontaneously he responds sexually and loves having sex with you.

If he enjoys sex while it’s happening then it’s a positive thing, isn’t it? So even though you’re initiating you’re mutually gaining pleasure and satisfaction.

This means that any sense you’ve had that he’s doing it just to please you is wrong, because he loves it while it happens. So you can let go of that, touch him without guilt and both enjoy yourselves.

Again (and most unusual to be agreeing with Bluntness!) I think there is a significant problem here. I think he's lying to you, and not only lying, misdirecting and possibly gaslighting. He's allowed you to think things (hardly any masturbating, probably had testosterone tests before) which weren't true. And it's highly highly unlikely that you came up with those versions by yourself. A little hint here from him, a vague suggestion there on his part. To come up with a plausible account. I'm not sure if gayness is the thing he's hiding,it could be any number of things. And I'm sure his anguish is genuine, I'm sure he loves you very much and wants to keep his marriage. The love you feel from him, and his fear of losing you is sincere. But I think he has probably deceived you the whole way through, and that will irreparably damage your relationship if it comes out, and he knows that. It is possible you have long witnessed his suffering at his guilt in his dishonesty, and at not being able to desire you; and also the huge efforts he makes in other areas to compensate for these, and have fallen into a role of soothing his suffering and diminishing your own needs, which you may not have chosen to do if you had a fuller picture of your husbands sexual preferences and anxieties.

I think this 'rushing mind' theory may be another misdirection - how does that fit in with masturbation? Also, he may have been researching -there is a big link between anxiety and sexual difficulties in men. But usually this results in impotence (evolutionary blocking of sexual arousal during fear). Which obviously isn't the case with your DH.

He is likely to have sensed that your sexual withdrawing may fully destabilise your marriage eventually, as a previous poster described. I imagine he may be desperately scrabbling around for a path through the horrific situation he is finding himself in. I'm not surprised at his tears. But I am sure he's not being honest with you.

(Caveat - it is highly likely I'm projecting here regarding an early relationship I had, where I thought my boyfriend was gay (he told me he was). I spent a good six months agonising that he wouldn't be satisfied and would leave me. A year later he told me he wasn't gay, but had said so because he was a virgin and hadn't wanted to seem sexually inexperienced (yes I know?!) By then I was comfortable that he wanted me sexually, but I couldn't get over him letting me suffer like that, just to save his own face. Killed the love I had for him. You can see the parallels).

DH has always had a higher sex drive than me but I can fake enjoyment if I'm not in the mood, he seems happy, I can't see why your DH didn't do this. If it's 15 mins once a week or so what stops him? Strange.

Hes realistically still missing out the key details, like what he thinks about when hes masterbating, what makes him masterbate etc. He clearly has sexual desires and sexual thoughts. I agree it sounds quite manipulative.

Im not saying you need to go and grab his dick, but surely most people initiate sex through some sort of touch? If his problem is just not thinking about sex then when you initiate he would be up for it. You now both know what supposedly gets him going so its easy from here on.

Hes not wanting sex, not just not thinking about it. Does he ever do anything sexual day to day? Like more than platonic hugs, put his arms around your waist, kiss your neck etc. Things that show intimacy but dont mean sex.

I’m reading a book at the moment called ‘Come as you are’ which is really interesting and very normalising and talks about sexual accelerants and sexual brakes. I think it might help understand what is going on for you both.

@Schehezarade

DH has always had a higher sex drive than me but I can fake enjoyment if I'm not in the mood, he seems happy, I can't see why your DH didn't do this. If it's 15 mins once a week or so what stops him? Strange.

I’m not sure how to respond to this!! Fake enjoyment???? This is 2020 not 1950.