Feel awful saying this but...

[Ginkpin]

Name changed for this post as I feel ashamed of how I feel, but I do need to clear my head about it.

I've been with DH for 25 years, married for 16. We met when we were both young (19/20). Our marriage has always been 'up and down' but recently, I have caught myself thinking 'you're so stupid' and I hate myself for it.

When we met, we were both very similar in outlook/views/goals etc. Neither of us is university educated - I knew what I wanted to do and very quickly got a job in my chosen field (broadcasting) and worked my way up. DH came from a family that struggled financially and university was not an option - he had to work to contribute to the household as soon as he'd finished his A-Levels. He worked bloody hard and has ended up as the Director of a small, but reasonably successful, company.

In the years since we met, I have continued to pursue my interests: art/reading/film/writing/music and always have a couple of books on the go and make an effort to see new and different films (although I enjoy big box office films as much as the next person), go to exhibitions (even if I'm not always sure I know much about the subject), ditto live music - and I write and get paid for my creative writing. As a caveat to all of this worthiness, I also enjoy shite tv, scrolling mindlessly through instagram and sport.

DH on the other hand has, over the years, stopped taking an interest in anything cultural. He hasn't read a book for years, can't seem to concentrate on a film or a tv show without falling asleep/forgetting what's happened/missing the point, has no interest in going to the cinema/theatre/exhibitions/concerts - anything really. He watches sport, spends hours looking at social media, works hard, pulls his weight, is not unkind, but not specifically thoughtful, and I've realised that we have nothing to talk about. If i suggest watching something/reading something, he can't be arsed and I honestly feel like he has wasted his brain through lack of exercise. I don't think I"m better or cleverer than him, but I do think I've kept my mind far more active and have far more interests and I am not sure what to do about how I feel.

I have to do all my hobbies with friends because he isn't interested and whilst he has no objection - he's very happy for me to go out and do stuff - I'm sad that I can't share any of it with my partner.

Forgive the long post, but this suddenly feels like a deal-breaker and I don't know if that is massively unfair (I am peri meno and this is suddenly bothering me so much more than it ever has).

I feel angry and sad and just don't know what to do.

@Maigue - thank you for acknowledging this. He has literally one interest which i have immersed myself in to the point where I am engaged and interested. I'm not sure what else I can do in that regard.

To those suggesting 'stress' from work - yes, definitely a factor. And yes he drinks a bit too much - a few beers most nights. But I have stress from work and my day is much longer than his. So although it is about making the effort - it's more about wanting to do something/read something/watch something/talk about something/go somewhere/try something etc because you are curious/open/hungry for life. Even if I could force him to do a bit more under duress, it wouldn't change the fact that he doesn't want to engage and is happy for his world to be tiny and closed. That's the crux of it.

I hear you OP
Not all men are like this only boring ones.
It's like death by a thousand cuts.

And yes he drinks a bit too much - a few beers most nights.

Sounds potentially like a problematic habit. If you (even gently) anaesthetise yourself night after night and then live permanently in day light hours with the fug of a low grade hangover for decades you with withdraw into your grumpy self with zero motivation. Do you think he is in a dependency cycle? It can be a slow almost imperceptible decline. Has he had periods of not drinking?

I got the stage whereby the fake Ikea cheese plant gave me more mental stimulation! We were married for 24 years and just grew apart.

He is now with a foreign girl who is into plastic surgery and adores Hello Kitty.... and I'm dating a QC.

Don't stay with a boron!

@Sssloou

And yes he drinks a bit too much - a few beers most nights.

Sounds potentially like a problematic habit. If you (even gently) anaesthetise yourself night after night and then live permanently in day light hours with the fug of a low grade hangover for decades you with withdraw into your grumpy self with zero motivation. Do you think he is in a dependency cycle? It can be a slow almost imperceptible decline. Has he had periods of not drinking?

You are right. It is becoming problematic. The drinking is newer than the general apathy. But I recognise a cycle. God it's so depressing.

I think I need to try and talk to him (again)

This might sound cynical but what would your life be like if you left?
Your children would be devastated and you would have a lot less money and time for pursuing your interests.
Then do you really think there are lots of decent hardworking men out there who are also interesting and intellectually stimulating? Sorry but men like that in their 40’s are either already married, have huge egos or are looking for a woman in her 20’s.
Lots of posters will say they meet men like this at work but don’t a lot of us ‘perform’ at work and then go home and slump on the settee? It’s the equivalent of dressing in smart clothes and heels at work or an old sweatshirt and no makeup at home.

@Fairyliz

This might sound cynical but what would your life be like if you left? Your children would be devastated and you would have a lot less money and time for pursuing your interests. Then do you really think there are lots of decent hardworking men out there who are also interesting and intellectually stimulating? Sorry but men like that in their 40’s are either already married, have huge egos or are looking for a woman in her 20’s. Lots of posters will say they meet men like this at work but don’t a lot of us ‘perform’ at work and then go home and slump on the settee? It’s the equivalent of dressing in smart clothes and heels at work or an old sweatshirt and no makeup at home.

Definitely this. Does he stop you from doing anything? I would travel etc by myself, pursue my own adventures, strike up interesting friendships and appreciate him as a stable father to my kids

Fairyliz

"Then do you really think there are lots of decent hardworking men out there who are also interesting and intellectually stimulating? Sorry but men like that in their 40’s are either already married, have huge egos or are looking for a woman in her 20’s."

But what makes you assume the OP needs to find another man?

@thepeopleversuswork

Fairyliz

"Then do you really think there are lots of decent hardworking men out there who are also interesting and intellectually stimulating? Sorry but men like that in their 40’s are either already married, have huge egos or are looking for a woman in her 20’s."

But what makes you assume the OP needs to find another man?

Indeed.

Or, if she did, that she wouldn’t ‘rate’ someone who is both ‘decent and hardworking’ (which implicitly correlates with ‘dull as ditchwater’ on this thread for a lot of people, which is interesting) who also reads books, goes to concerts and doesn’t regard a look around Tate Modern as equivalent to a root canal.

I mean, the OP hasn’t said she wants to date a combo of Jonas Kaufman, Ian McEwan and Damien Hirst. 😀

I've heard a few men express similar feelings, but it's usually when their wives are SAHM and didn't want to return to work once the kids were in school.

It's also usually when they're having an affair with someone with similar intellect to them at work or when they're attracted to such a woman.

I think the fundamental thing is that you can't change anyone if they're happy as they are. Not every couple have the same interests and just because you show interest in football, doesn't mean he has to take an interest in your hobbies.

The point about him feeling left out in conversations and you having to cover up or step in, is something I'd find embarrassing....so I can understand how you feel on that.

Perhaps a conversation with him about how you feel you're growing apart and you're concerned that once the kids get older/leave home, you won't have anything in common.

The key to this conversation, is not blaming him as that will only lead to him being defensive or he'll go on the counter attack, because he feels attacked.

It needs to be phrased as a 'we' problem and not a 'you' problem to be received well by him.

@thepeopleversuswork

Fairyliz

"Then do you really think there are lots of decent hardworking men out there who are also interesting and intellectually stimulating? Sorry but men like that in their 40’s are either already married, have huge egos or are looking for a woman in her 20’s."

But what makes you assume the OP needs to find another man?

Ok I agree the op hasn’t specifically said she is looking for another man. However if that’s not the case why would you break up with someone who is decent, a good father and is happy for you to go out and do things with friends? It sounds like the Op has had her head turned by another man to me.

Fairyliz

Er, is it inconceivable to you that a woman might want to leave a relationship just because it isn’t making her happy? There doesn’t always have to be another man lined up...

I see nothing in the OP’s posts to suggest she has had her “head turned”. She is frustrated that her DH seems not to want to connect with her on any meaningful level. That’s a perfectly reasonable stance to be considering whether her relationship works. There’s no obligation to remain with a man purely because he ticks a few notional boxes and isn’t unkind. You might want to raise your bar a bit...

@thepeopleversuswork

Fairyliz

Er, is it inconceivable to you that a woman might want to leave a relationship just because it isn’t making her happy? There doesn’t always have to be another man lined up...

I see nothing in the OP’s posts to suggest she has had her “head turned”. She is frustrated that her DH seems not to want to connect with her on any meaningful level. That’s a perfectly reasonable stance to be considering whether her relationship works. There’s no obligation to remain with a man purely because he ticks a few notional boxes and isn’t unkind. You might want to raise your bar a bit...

Well I’ve been married 32 years and I know that all marriages have their ups and downs. Many a time I would have cheerfully throttled DH and he’s driven me mad at times. However he’s a good man and always there for me when it matters. It’s been an awful year for everyone, throw in mad emotions as op goes through the menopause and it’s a potent mix. Wouldn’t we all like to just run away at times. I wouldn’t want the op to throw away a decent marriage for ‘what ifs’

I have read your posts but not all replies. Not sure if anyone else has said this yet. This isn't to do with education, until i became a SAHM I worked in a graduate profession in one of the top organisations amongst the ('scuse the word) elite - from an educational point of view - and I can assure you that many of my colleagues had small idea or interest about anything "cultural" at all, whether it be art or music or opera or literature or politics or world affairs. Many had extraordinary levels of knowledge about football though.

I get that you feel lonely in the relationship and that is what you are trying to resolve here, but it isn't to do with education or being successful.

If you love him, and the marriage is otherwise good, and you have friends who are interested in what you are interested in, then that might ultimately be enough, or not, it is up to you.

I relation to him putting your dc off things I would be really assertive about that and tell him to stop it. But if you have been introducing your dc to art and so on since they were young, as teenagers they will have ideas of their own about what they are interested in.

In relation to your written work, can you not tell him to read the whole thing?! Or sell it to him, to engage him or read the whole thing out loud to him? Drag him to art galleries kicking and screaming or with bribery? (I probably would...)

@ishouldnotbeonhere

I have read your posts but not all replies. Not sure if anyone else has said this yet. This isn't to do with education, until i became a SAHM I worked in a graduate profession in one of the top organisations amongst the ('scuse the word) elite - from an educational point of view - and I can assure you that many of my colleagues had small idea or interest about anything "cultural" at all, whether it be art or music or opera or literature or politics or world affairs. Many had extraordinary levels of knowledge about football though.

I get that you feel lonely in the relationship and that is what you are trying to resolve here, but it isn't to do with education or being successful.

If you love him, and the marriage is otherwise good, and you have friends who are interested in what you are interested in, then that might ultimately be enough, or not, it is up to you.

I relation to him putting your dc off things I would be really assertive about that and tell him to stop it. But if you have been introducing your dc to art and so on since they were young, as teenagers they will have ideas of their own about what they are interested in.

In relation to your written work, can you not tell him to read the whole thing?! Or sell it to him, to engage him or read the whole thing out loud to him? Drag him to art galleries kicking and screaming or with bribery? (I probably would...)

But the OP has never suggested it’s about education — her first post says neither she nor her husband went tou university.

And would you really want to be married to an extra child you have to bribe to read, or to read an entire novel aloud to a man who’s too lazy to read it?

Or to ‘drag him to art galleries kicking and screaming or with bribery’?

Seriously?

I have an eight year old son and that would feel infantilising.

But the OP has never suggested it’s about education — her first post says neither she nor her husband went tou university I think she was saying that neither went to university but that she has learned about things since then and he hasn't, and I wondered if she thought that people who went to university might be more educated in a cultural way.

And would you really want to be married to an extra child you have to bribe to read, or to read an entire novel aloud to a man who’s too lazy to read it? Or to ‘drag him to art galleries kicking and screaming or with bribery’? Seriously?

If she wanted to stay with him, for the sake of the other aspects of the relationship, for the sake of her dc, doing those things would be fine for normal people and not infantalising. I know a writer who reads things to her dh because she knows they wouldn't bother to read it themselves. No one is perfect. No relationship is perfect. It is a question of making the best of things if you decide to stay in the relationship.

I have an eight year old son and that would feel infantilising Do you mean you don't try to persuade your eight year old to try new things because it would be infantalising? ("Like, Seriously? ")

OP if he is drinking and you try to protect him in conversations because you think he would be embarrassed by his lack of knowledge, then it might be he isn't really very happy himself.

The people I know who are very clever, educated to a high level, no clue about art or music or literature, would not have been embarrassed to not know something, if you think your dh is, then maybe pursue talking to him about his feelings about that?

Thank you again for so many replies and so much insight.

Just to clear up a couple of things:

I have not had my head turned - there's no one else. This is not about looking for a reason to check out.

And it's not about education. We are equal in that regard and I don't hold education up as the holy grail. I am far more attracted (and by that I mean in a friendship sense as well as romantically) to someone who is funny/engaging had has a passion for broadening their horizons and trying new things, despite not having had the privilege of a robust education.

I think DH is suffering from a feeling quite low/overwhelmed/insecure, but I have tried to gently talk to him about these things over the weekend and got nowhere. So I am going to try again - perhaps with more urgency - and I am factoring the fact that I am perimenopausal so my emotions might be unreliable at the moment.

I am frustrated beyond belief, but not about to walk away without trying very hard to find a way forward.

I think DH is suffering from a feeling quite low/overwhelmed/insecure.

He may be mildly depressed and withdrawn and habitual drinking even at a low level will just exacerbate that.

I would agree that peri-meno maybe a factor - I know I had v distorted thinking.

But if once your have accounted for and addressed MH, hormones and alcohol issues and proactively voiced your needs and wants to no avail then you have to take a look at how compatible you will be post children. Good luck.

Just on the education thing, I didn't think you thought it was the holy grail, it was more that you mentioned it in your OP, as though it was relevant somehow. Most posts on here about relationships don't mention university. And it is not really relevant to the sort of qualities you listed as things you admire in your last post - eg funny engaging interested in new horizons - these feature in people who have been to university and those who haven't, and don't feature in some people who have been to university and those who haven't!

Would you mind me asking why you mentioned it, how it is relevant to you - as you mentioned it in your first post?

I hope that you find the answers you are looking for, good luck

@ishouldnotbeonhere, no, I would not be reading entire novels aloud to my eight year old, or bribing or ‘dragging him kicking and screaming’ to art galleries. He’s pretty up for new cultural stuff, probably because he doesn’t have one parent telling him such things are boring, and also he has friends whose parents are artists and musicians, and a writer mother.

No, no relationship is perfect, but this is a very serious issue for the OP. It would be a deal-breaker for me — I would have lost all intellectual respect for a man who seems to have sunk into brain atrophy — but I can see the OP is determined to leave no stone unturned before ending her marriage.

would travel etc by myself, pursue my own adventures, strike up interesting friendships

Of course that is so very easy to do.

An we please not blame the menopause for this. Yes, it adversely affects some people but many, many woman don’t suffer emotional challenges in the way you suggest.

It sounds to me as if the passage of time and familiarity (and the need not to try so hard) have resulted in him digging himself a bit of a rut. The longer he lies in it, the harder it is to get out. A few beers at the weekend brews in pot a few every night, it can happen without you really realising.

I think you need to sit down and have a conversation about what you both want, what’s important, and maybe work on reinventing and reinvigorating your relationship if you want a happy future together. Easy to say, I know.

@maigue that is all about you though, no one has said anything about whole novels, the OP mentioned "creative writing" which could mean anything. You clearly have very strong views and that is fine but try not to influence the OP too much or you will be in danger of infantalising her. And let her answer why she mentioned university.

I mentioned University for a couple of reasons.

1. DH references his lack of University education sometimes as though this makes him somehow 'less'. When I mention that I also don't have a University education, he will say ' yeah but you're clever'. I'm really not cleverer/smarter than him fundamentally. Again, I go back to the fact that I have a twenty year advantage of continuing to 'self-educate' myself though reading/watching/listening/trying/visiting - generally absorbing other people's cleverness!

I mention university also as a simple fact to illustrate the fact that we are both educated to the same standard. Because the heart of this issue is about being able to meet 'conversationally' as well as emotionally, and so I didn't want to mislead anyone by suggesting that I was somehow smarter/more educated.

@Giraffey1
I am not about to 'blame' the menopause, but this has been going on for a long long time and it's only recently started to feel unbearable, so I am wondering if my emotions are a bit more extreme at the moment.