Feel awful saying this but...

[Ginkpin]

Name changed for this post as I feel ashamed of how I feel, but I do need to clear my head about it.

I've been with DH for 25 years, married for 16. We met when we were both young (19/20). Our marriage has always been 'up and down' but recently, I have caught myself thinking 'you're so stupid' and I hate myself for it.

When we met, we were both very similar in outlook/views/goals etc. Neither of us is university educated - I knew what I wanted to do and very quickly got a job in my chosen field (broadcasting) and worked my way up. DH came from a family that struggled financially and university was not an option - he had to work to contribute to the household as soon as he'd finished his A-Levels. He worked bloody hard and has ended up as the Director of a small, but reasonably successful, company.

In the years since we met, I have continued to pursue my interests: art/reading/film/writing/music and always have a couple of books on the go and make an effort to see new and different films (although I enjoy big box office films as much as the next person), go to exhibitions (even if I'm not always sure I know much about the subject), ditto live music - and I write and get paid for my creative writing. As a caveat to all of this worthiness, I also enjoy shite tv, scrolling mindlessly through instagram and sport.

DH on the other hand has, over the years, stopped taking an interest in anything cultural. He hasn't read a book for years, can't seem to concentrate on a film or a tv show without falling asleep/forgetting what's happened/missing the point, has no interest in going to the cinema/theatre/exhibitions/concerts - anything really. He watches sport, spends hours looking at social media, works hard, pulls his weight, is not unkind, but not specifically thoughtful, and I've realised that we have nothing to talk about. If i suggest watching something/reading something, he can't be arsed and I honestly feel like he has wasted his brain through lack of exercise. I don't think I"m better or cleverer than him, but I do think I've kept my mind far more active and have far more interests and I am not sure what to do about how I feel.

I have to do all my hobbies with friends because he isn't interested and whilst he has no objection - he's very happy for me to go out and do stuff - I'm sad that I can't share any of it with my partner.

Forgive the long post, but this suddenly feels like a deal-breaker and I don't know if that is massively unfair (I am peri meno and this is suddenly bothering me so much more than it ever has).

I feel angry and sad and just don't know what to do.

No one should have for example avoid the use of words of more than 2 syllables in normal conversation. My Ex used to insist I was trying to verbally bully him by using long words he didn't know or understand. To access to a request like that would clearly be dumbing down.

But it's different if you are using words or expressions referring to a particular genre or relating to something the other person might be unfamiliar with. So I wouldn't throw a res judicata or similar into the conversation just because I know what it means. Ditto I have used expressions like Machiavellian or biblical references and realised it means nothing to the person I'm speaking to. So I'd just rephrase it. It's the same as using idioms, having worked with many people for whom English is not a first language I know they have been most bemused by statements such as it's raining cats and dogs after which we tried to avoid this as much as possible.

If I don't jump in and 'cover' for him, I KNOW he will feel embarrassed.

Even so, stop. It's unhealthy for both you. No-one ever died of embarrassment.

he would come away saying things like "I don't fit in"

OK, I see why you do it, but that is not your problem to fix for him. Not fitting in, or not feeling he fits in, is his problem to solve and as long as you hide it for him he is never going to face it. And you are just going to feel the way you both do, more and more resentful of each other.

he would come away saying things like "I don't fit in"

This is his issue, not yours. He should really see this as an opportunity to raise his own personal bar and push himself. Its an opportunity for growth. If he doesn't see it like this and decides to retreat from this then that's his choice and you can't do much about it but you should not seek to lower your own bar to accommodate him.

If the two of you are going to be able to get past this either he is going to have to open himself up a bit, become more curious and engaged and take himself out of his comfort zone, or you will have to basically accept that there's a large part of your life which can't involve him.

I definitely agree that you should stop rescuing him. Let him see how insular he has become. Then he may understand your frustration better.

Also, I think that is so sad the fact that he hasn't read your published work. How can he think that that is acceptable? Do your mutual friends know? Isn't he ashamed?

Also, I think that is so sad the fact that he hasn't read your published work. How can he think that that is acceptable? Do your mutual friends know? Isn't he ashamed?

Oh, I don't think that in itself is a problem -- I think there are two types of novelists' spouses, one who's always their first reader and makes serious suggestions at the revising stage, and one who seldom if ever reads the finished book at all. DH, who reads a lot, doesn't read mine, and I prefer it like that. My best friend's husband doesn't read her work either.

This thread is proving really useful to me. A lot of you are articulating things I couldn't do myself, and it's really encouraging to hear that it doesn't have to be an insurmountable obstacle (although it may end up being).

Having had all day to read and ponder, I think the thing that I am struggling with is that we started in the same place and I feel that my world has expanded because I've made the effort for it to do so, whilst his has shrunk due to apathy.

And that would be ok if it was just 'hobbies' but it's so much more than that and I feel increasingly like I am living with a forty-five year old, monosyllabic teenager - but without the luxury of knowing that it's just a phase.

Do you want it not to be an insurmountable obstacle, though, @Ginkpin? Because you said it had suddenly become a deal-breaker in your first post, and I can't imagine myself wanting to commit to a future with a mentally-lazy, inert man whose mental world is limited to football and social media and with whom you can't hold a basic conversation.

How long has he been this inert? Is he unhappy, do you think? Does he wish he had a wider range of reference?

I feel increasingly like I am living with a forty-five year old, monosyllabic teenager - but without the luxury of knowing that it's just a phase.

You shouldn't have to tolerate this in a relationship, OP. A relationship with someone should be nurturing to both of you. Not draining and limiting. You're not his mother and its not your job to do his emotional and conversational homework.

If you haven't done so already, I think you need to articulate this to him. It may be that he has just atrophied a bit and hasn't realised the effect this is having on you. If he cares about you he should be prepared to think about this.

But I think you should consider the possibility that you may just have outgrown him and that he is no longer able to meet your needs.

I think the thing that I am struggling with is that we started in the same place and I feel that my world has expanded because I've made the effort for it to do so, whilst his has shrunk due to apathy.

This is the crux of it really. It's not the case, as some people are trying to say, that you think you're 'better than him'; it can't be, because you used to have a lot in common and YOU haven't changed, but he has.

I agree with previous posters that much of his inertia could be down to stress and tiredness. When my career has taken all my energy I let all my hobbies- very similar to your own- fall by the way side and no longer feel interested in the arts.

Mindless tv watching etc is all my brain is up to during those times. You talk about how hard he works and what comes over to me is that his career and family take all his mental energy so that there's none left over for curiosity.

A couple of things you mentioned also suggest he suffers with low self confidence or esteem. This will also contribute to his seeming reluctance to improve his health and fitness.

Additionally, we all know what a long hard grind this year has been, inertia is one way to switch off from and deal with the stress from the constant bad news. Covid restrictions also make it harder to start new fitness routines.

Could his business be under stress from covid too?

I'd give him next year, at least, to rediscover some mojo.

I do think, though, its worth discussing this gently with him. Point out the difference and see what he thinks about it - if he says it's because he's tired and stressed then that's your answer and it gives you both something to work on next year: a good work/life balance.

All work and no play etc

Off the back of this discussion, I don't think he should be undermining your interests with the children and I think he could make an effort to share your conversations and enthusiasm. We all have to do this with partners and you've clearly made an effort with his interests, its time for him to see that he needs to make a bit more effort with your relationship and to show how he values you by doing the same. You could point out that in undermining your interest in art, he also undermines his daughters interest and his son may therefore feel that he cannot enjoy art without being on the receiving end of his father's disdain, when he clearly looks up to him.

Try to avoid coming across as confrontational and accusatory and see how you get on. Best of luck!

Also don't forget, we're all a bit boring at the moment, it's legally imposed. Don't rush into anything

You could point out that in undermining your interest in art, he also undermines his daughters interest and his son may therefore feel that he cannot enjoy art without being on the receiving end of his father's disdain, when he clearly looks up to him.

I think you need to be more robust than that tbh… undermining a child's interest in the arts would be an absolute red line for me. That alone would have me questioning whether to remain in the marriage. Its just bad parenting.

Yes there's a case for cutting him a bit of slack due to COVID and I wouldn't rush into anything without talking to him. But I think even in bad times there's an obligation to listen to your spouse, consider their needs and engage with them. Everyone has off days and days when all they want to do is veg in front of crap TV. But its not an excuse for disengaging from your relationship to the point where you behave like a sulky teenager when your OH tries to engage you in conversation.

@WanderingMilly

Oh dear, this was my marriage years ago. I tried to talk to my DH about it but he wasn't having any of it....I wanted us to share more things together or discuss current affairs or something...anything. He became defensive and quite angry, buried himself in his work so much that it was his one and only (boring) conversation (and that's if he bothered to talk). His defence was that I'd changed.

We divorced, I'm much happier and get all my conversations from lots of friends/family/colleagues instead.

To be fair, you did change because you wanted him to share more of your interests. You could have also still got those conversations from lots of friends/family/colleagues even if you were still married...

@Goatinthegarden

I think it’s a bit sad that so many posters are writing men off as boring and uninteresting.

DH and I have both our own and shared interests. Indulging in our own pursuits gives us some time to ourselves and something to talk about when we come together. I work with plenty of men who share my academic interests and we have really engaging discussions on the topic - amazingly men over 40 are capable of being interesting.

OP talk to your husband and see if you can motivate him to find some interests. He might be stuck in a rut and need some help out of it. Try and find some shared interests (they might not be the same as the interests that you are currently cultivating).

If at the end of that, you find yourself still unhappy, then it’s time to consider what to do next.

But marriage isn't one sided. It's just as valid to ask why can't the OP be more like her husband. This whole thing about expecting one person to have all these shared interests with you all throughout life is such a modern phenomenon regarding Western marriage and it's done so much damage. As others have said it's unrealistic to expect. Even those saying that their own husbands fulfil that for them, that's only right at this moment - they'll come a time where this changes for them in someway too. A spouse is not there to be moulded into your image, and as others have said, the grass is not greener. Find another outlet for your interests and bear in mind that perimenopause will be having a big impact too. It's worth talking to the GP about it.

LilyWater

"But marriage isn't one sided. It's just as valid to ask why can't the OP be more like her husband. This whole thing about expecting one person to have all these shared interests with you all throughout life is such a modern phenomenon regarding Western marriage and it's done so much damage."

But it isn't really about shared interests. Its about being prepared to engage with your spouse, express interest in their interests and spend some quality time with them. The OP has said that increasingly her OH is like a 45 year old teenager and seems not to want to make any effort at all.

No-one is ever going to meet a person who matches them personally and shares all their interests. But there has to be some give and take. The OH in this case seems to resent any attempt by the OP to broaden her horizons and he seems to actively shut himself off from this. He's deliberately trying to limit her. And this is not a recipe for happiness.

@Spittingchestnuts

I think EvenMoreFuriousVexation makes a very good point. It takes a lot of energy and focus to keep a company running, especially with C-19 and Brexit etc. He probably talks to people all day. Maybe he just needs a bit of quiet when he gets home because he has less energy than he used to when younger?

My DH of 26 yrs has honestly driven me stark raving mad WFH during lockdown (office moved in to dining room) but it has made me appreciate the intensity of his work a lot more.

I suspect it's this as well, especially if he's an introvert. If you have a full on or stressful work life , you need to have more "decompressing" activities that don't require much intellectual stimulation e.g. crap TV. I have similar interests to the OP but even I would be more like her husband if I had a company director job. I'm sure it'll be something that gets better in time when the work pressure is reduced. Like another poster said, I also suspect that the main reason the OP has all this liberty to pursue all these hobbies and interests to her heart's content is in large part to her husband's job...

@LilyWater

I work bloody hard thank you. I'm not at home all day lazing about and pursuing my interests. I have a pretty stressful and demanding job, plus the writing which all has deadlines, I do the lions share of the housework and cooking and have two DC under sixteen.

Yes sometimes I just want to collapse on to the sofa. But even then, it'd be nice to be able to chat with DH about something other than logistics around kids/dog/car going in for a service.

John Gottman talks about relationships being a series of bids for connection. Small moments where we share something with them. So if one of the couple points out a bird out of the window, the partner could respond with enthusiasm, indifference, ignoring or even hostility. And it's not just about the bird, it's the partner is trying to share their view of the world with their partner. There are hundreds/thousands of these bids and the point isn't that they need all get a positive response, but over time, it adds up to how we feel about our partners and their connection with us.

These are the micro building blocks of a relationship and how partners respond to each others bids is a good predictor of the health and longevity of the relationship.

So, at the moment you are feeling a lot of your bids for connection are ignored or rejected and that's more important than the individual hobbies he doesn't share with you.

In your shoes, I think I'd try and curious about his hopes and dreams for the future and share yours. See if that sparks up a bit of enthusiasm and if there are shared projects you could work towards together. If he doesn't have any, then I'd maybe try and see if there was a particular worry (health, family, business, covid) that's getting him down. Incase it is stress or depression that can be treated.

But it could just be that he's happy with how he spends his time and isn't interested in you in the way you'd like a partner to be. And then you have to figure out if that's how you want to go on.

What’s his drinking like?

@shamalidacdak

Sorry to say but All men are like this. You're in for a rude awakening if you think you'll find another man who shares your interests. Unfortunately they morph into single interest species and it's usually watching sports , drinking and sex. It's a well known phenomenon that men would just sit on the couch for the rest of their lives if it wasn't for women dragging them out.

Ridiculous generalisation and total bollocks.

It’s depressing how many posters think the issue is with the OP, and that, — despite the fact that she has explained at length that, without any particular interest in football, she developed one and began to go along to games with her DH and to discuss matches with him — she should be working on entering into his interests, or recognising that his couch potato ways are because of his Big Important Job, which apparently leaves him too drained to read a book or even watch a tv show without zoning out. I don’t that, even if she wanted to, he has another interest she could enter into! And the OP isn’t the one mocking football, her DH is the one making ostentatious yawning noises when she mentions an art exhibition to the children.

I don’t think this is on her.

@Aquamarine1029

You've outgrown him and you're miserable. You've got a good 40 years left, so now you have to decide how you want to spend them. Happy or miserable? I know what I'd choose.

I agree with this

But would she be happier alone? Or would she be looking for someone else? Have a read of the dating threads over 40, it doesn't fill me with hope.

OP I don't think different interests are the end of the world but I get the impression you feel a bit invisible to him- when he won't read your work for example. If he was hugely encouraging and into you despite not understanding it would you be feeling the same way? Taking each other for granted after many years together is common, but you do need to explain how you feel to him. I don't think there's many 20 year marriages that are constantly scintillating but a relationship as long as yours is an achievement (mine is similar length for context). You don't need shared hobbies but you do need to feel valued.

I think it is definitely helpful if you as a couple have similar outlook, upbringing, intelligence.
Eg holiday time, does he help choose the holiday spot, does he join in plans of when you are there, when there is he first to the shops to try the local delicacies, trying the various sports with the DCs? I wouldn't say DH ticks all these boxes but we are interested in travel here or abroad, like to read up a bit of history, vie with the map reading/birdwatching. if he just wanted to lie around reading magazines, that wouldn't work.

OP you imply that your DH used to have cultural interests and enjoyed reading books etc, when you were first both together but they've faded . Perhaps he feigned an interest [first flush of love and all that !] for you and has settled back into being more himself over the years because things like feeling he didn't fit in with your friends must have dented his confidence. Maybe he just gave up trying ?

What does his Company do , is he happy and fulfilled there ? Does he have many friends ?

Sorry for all the questions, it just seems that mid forties is too young to be so 'settled'.