Feel awful saying this but...

[Ginkpin]

Name changed for this post as I feel ashamed of how I feel, but I do need to clear my head about it.

I've been with DH for 25 years, married for 16. We met when we were both young (19/20). Our marriage has always been 'up and down' but recently, I have caught myself thinking 'you're so stupid' and I hate myself for it.

When we met, we were both very similar in outlook/views/goals etc. Neither of us is university educated - I knew what I wanted to do and very quickly got a job in my chosen field (broadcasting) and worked my way up. DH came from a family that struggled financially and university was not an option - he had to work to contribute to the household as soon as he'd finished his A-Levels. He worked bloody hard and has ended up as the Director of a small, but reasonably successful, company.

In the years since we met, I have continued to pursue my interests: art/reading/film/writing/music and always have a couple of books on the go and make an effort to see new and different films (although I enjoy big box office films as much as the next person), go to exhibitions (even if I'm not always sure I know much about the subject), ditto live music - and I write and get paid for my creative writing. As a caveat to all of this worthiness, I also enjoy shite tv, scrolling mindlessly through instagram and sport.

DH on the other hand has, over the years, stopped taking an interest in anything cultural. He hasn't read a book for years, can't seem to concentrate on a film or a tv show without falling asleep/forgetting what's happened/missing the point, has no interest in going to the cinema/theatre/exhibitions/concerts - anything really. He watches sport, spends hours looking at social media, works hard, pulls his weight, is not unkind, but not specifically thoughtful, and I've realised that we have nothing to talk about. If i suggest watching something/reading something, he can't be arsed and I honestly feel like he has wasted his brain through lack of exercise. I don't think I"m better or cleverer than him, but I do think I've kept my mind far more active and have far more interests and I am not sure what to do about how I feel.

I have to do all my hobbies with friends because he isn't interested and whilst he has no objection - he's very happy for me to go out and do stuff - I'm sad that I can't share any of it with my partner.

Forgive the long post, but this suddenly feels like a deal-breaker and I don't know if that is massively unfair (I am peri meno and this is suddenly bothering me so much more than it ever has).

I feel angry and sad and just don't know what to do.

Nobody should stay in a relationship that makes me unhappy, but I do suspect that if you left, you'd find that actually this isn't as big a deal as you think. He's kind, loving, and stable, and that counts for a hell of a lot. I suspect you'd find the grass really isn't greener and would want him back... but it would take leaving to realise it, and the damage would be done. You're between a rock and a hard place.

Nobody should stay in a relationship that makes me unhappy

I meant that makes THEM unhappy. I'm not quite that self-centred that I think all relationships are about me.

@ZoeTurtle

Nobody should stay in a relationship that makes me unhappy

I meant that makes THEM unhappy. I'm not quite that self-centred that I think all relationships are about me.

🤣🤣🤣🤣

That made me laugh.

Nobody should be in a relationship that makes them unhappy

This is an incredibly important point and one we tend to overlook.

Women are so conditioned to believe they can’t function outside of a relationship that we often lose sight of this.

When our own instincts are telling us something isn’t working we tend to rationalise this away: “he is a good provider/the kids love him/he does his share” etc.

It’s often simpler than we allow ourselves to recognise.

I don't think you think you're better than him, you're just frustrated and bored by him.

While I'm certain not ALL men are like this from middle age onwards, just anecdotally from friends, colleagues and family I know many are. Especially as a trade off for the good qualities you've mentioned. They retreat into the chair while women generally tend to fan out and form stronger friendships and family commitments.

I work in a creative industry and know many men who are interested and interesting, but a common feature is they are often divorced (sometimes numerously) or perpetually single, and self-centred, infrequently seeing their children and mainly shagging about with much younger women and having younger friends. At a certain point it often shifts to being a bit seedy and tragic. The few i know who seem to maintain relationships are not dissimilar to your DH, but they bore everyone talking about their work which just happens to be creative rather than being creative all rounders.

I found myself in a somewhat similar situation to the OP, DH was all about his work, sport and drinking with friends. Boring, and I felt there was a stranger in my home. He was happy and didn't understand my dissatisfaction. We separated for a brief time.

You need to weigh your options. Sometimes the grass is greener, but I wonder if you could find an equilibrium of shared interests? You can't get everything from one person and maybe it could be sad that I settled. I looked around at the other men available, in middle age with their associated baggage and other flaws as well as the alternative of decades alone, never mind the disruption to our family. I decided we could work it out and admittedly with some nagging, we do now do more together and have one or two shared interests.

I still have to get lots of enrichment from friends and family though.

But OP you're not really describing someone who is dull and does nothing. What you're actually saying is his interests are boring to you, yours are better, more 'worthy' somehow and therefore he's not allowed to think the same.

I like football, my DP doesn't get it at all. Doesn't have any interest in watching sports, finds it all a bit pointless. Fair enough. I produce a lot of written output via my work; from time to time we discuss the content as it touches on legal reform and the like but I wouldn't expect him to sit down and read any of it, nor would he want to.

Equally I can't get my head round anything he does at work (when I hear him on a Teams call he might as well be speaking in Mandarin for all that I can understand).

We have similar views generally on the world, similar goals. We don't have many shared interests but we've found enough common ground together. For me that's enough. I'm happy to sit with him on the sofa whether I'm watching a quiz on TV and he's reading up on Blazor or other coding/ programming stuff or I'm reading a book or doing a puzzle and he's watching some YouTube stuff about the Arecibo telescope or whatever.

It doesn't all have to be art galleries, poetry readings and the like to be interesting or valid.

DS assumes it will be boring because his dad does a yawning gesture to him.

That is very rude and inappropriate. Even if your DH finds it dull he has no business showing that in front of your DS, he shouldn't be putting DS off. I would have words with him about that.

Maybe he is a bit jealous and doesn't want your DS to share your interests instead of his.

If DH keeps at it then don't give up on the trip, try saying "well, DD and I are going and that's that, DS you can come if you like" and then be all cheerful and excited about it. The trick is not to be angry with DS because he wont come, instead to make DS and DH feel as if they're missing out on some fun that you and DD are going to enjoy together.

@thepeopleversuswork

Maigue the worry I have and this is something which I find very depressing is that there are very few men who are both intellectually curious and driven and good supportive partners.

I have to say I have yet to find one who crosses both camps. All the partners I have had have either been kind, gentle, supportive and ultimately quite dull men who will put you first but will eventually bore you or they have been self-centred, clever intellectual showboaters with very fragile egos who basically require you to be a mother substitute.

If I had to choose I'd probably opt for the first as long as I had other outlets. There's nothing worse than sacrificing your life on the alter of someone else's cleverness -- my mum basically lost herself to this and it ultimately destroyed her self-esteem completely.

I'd like to think this is an over-simplification and that there are some partnerships where both partners are allowed to "shine" and to support one another but I'm in my late 40s and haven't found this yet. I've made my compromise and I'm happy(ish) with it. But it hasn't given me a lot of faith in men's ability to cover both bases.

I'm sorry to hear that, @thepeopleversuswork. I think I've been lucky DH moved fields completely after setting out in the same direction as I did, and is very high-powered in his area, but he has never for one moment let this give him a free pass from family life (he's the household cook, and does all the shopping, and is a hands-on dad) or from being entirely supportive of my career. I do also see that in other relationships in our circles which are virtually entirely two-career couples with neither sacrificed on the altar of the other's schtik there's some serious juggling involved in one spouse being an opera director and the other a forensic archaeologist! -- but I do also know what you're saying about some successful women choosing a gentle, supportive, not terribly interesting spouse.

My closest friend made this choice. It's helped her to be ultra-successful, while he's been a SAHP for years and moved around a lot to facilitate her career, but I wouldn't say it's been without problems either.

DP and I are intellectually, incredibly different. I am educated to a masters level and am currently applying for PHDs and on the other hand he has only A levels. That doesn’t mean he isn’t intelligent and work hard though because he bloody does as a public servant and does long hard hours. We just chose different educational paths.

I enjoy reading classical books and he likes comics and anime. The most I can get him to do is watch films of my favourite books, I managed to get him to read the blurb of The Great Gatsby (my favourite book) and that was all. On the other hand, he is a huge anime fan and I don’t understand that at all. He’s hugely passionate about it and to me it’s just a cartoon. You’re allowed your own hobbies and passions but I think you must allow for time together to do “couple things”.

It doesn’t need to be actual huge time consuming hobbies but we gym, go for walks, cook together (cooking is my biggest passion). Maybe you could work on discovering something you both like to do because surely there must be something he enjoys?

@Ginkpin

Name changed for this post as I feel ashamed of how I feel, but I do need to clear my head about it.

I've been with DH for 25 years, married for 16. We met when we were both young (19/20). Our marriage has always been 'up and down' but recently, I have caught myself thinking 'you're so stupid' and I hate myself for it.

When we met, we were both very similar in outlook/views/goals etc. Neither of us is university educated - I knew what I wanted to do and very quickly got a job in my chosen field (broadcasting) and worked my way up. DH came from a family that struggled financially and university was not an option - he had to work to contribute to the household as soon as he'd finished his A-Levels. He worked bloody hard and has ended up as the Director of a small, but reasonably successful, company.

In the years since we met, I have continued to pursue my interests: art/reading/film/writing/music and always have a couple of books on the go and make an effort to see new and different films (although I enjoy big box office films as much as the next person), go to exhibitions (even if I'm not always sure I know much about the subject), ditto live music - and I write and get paid for my creative writing. As a caveat to all of this worthiness, I also enjoy shite tv, scrolling mindlessly through instagram and sport.

DH on the other hand has, over the years, stopped taking an interest in anything cultural. He hasn't read a book for years, can't seem to concentrate on a film or a tv show without falling asleep/forgetting what's happened/missing the point, has no interest in going to the cinema/theatre/exhibitions/concerts - anything really. He watches sport, spends hours looking at social media, works hard, pulls his weight, is not unkind, but not specifically thoughtful, and I've realised that we have nothing to talk about. If i suggest watching something/reading something, he can't be arsed and I honestly feel like he has wasted his brain through lack of exercise. I don't think I"m better or cleverer than him, but I do think I've kept my mind far more active and have far more interests and I am not sure what to do about how I feel.

I have to do all my hobbies with friends because he isn't interested and whilst he has no objection - he's very happy for me to go out and do stuff - I'm sad that I can't share any of it with my partner.

Forgive the long post, but this suddenly feels like a deal-breaker and I don't know if that is massively unfair (I am peri meno and this is suddenly bothering me so much more than it ever has).

I feel angry and sad and just don't know what to do.

Is this Educating Rita Mk2?

@Ginkpin

That's interesting about the football / art.
So you make an effort to be more interested than you naturally would be in his interests but he not only does not make much effort re yours (fair enough) but encourages your kids to disrespect it by making 'yawning' gestures, despite the fact 1 child might be keen?
I know that's not the crime of the century / marriage ending but this is just the sort of thing I'm talking about when I say 'sneery' I guess?

eg - my exH always encouraged my kids to sneer and laugh about the amount of books I have. Sad as they (all) have Dyslexia so he needs to encourage them not to be frightened of books etc. I came to the conclusion that he was content for them to be limited in the same way he was. I find that when they are with me, we talk about stuff they have looked up online, and wider things like politics / museums / history. When they are with him he will put on cartoons etc even though they are now 13 and 16 (albeit young for those ages). When we are all together, he seems to be on a mission to mock / change the subject if I encourage more cerebral things so the kids feel there is some sort of battle for their soul. I am happy to watch cartoons with them too and don't want to be the one pushing the healthy eating / lets go for a walk / lets find out about X but he only makes an effort with them on stuff he is interested in, which is relatively limited. I get that, and that is fine in fact it is nice to have two quite different parents but its the putting down of the opposite view / interest that makes me uncomfortable.

Oooof. sorry that went off on a rant about my situation
But I do think if it is creeping over into unhelpful behaviour around the kids then it is not simply that you've progressed and he hasn't?

I don't think its unusual to do different things with different people. If I want theatre I go with my mum and / or sisters. If I want a museum I take my son. If I want shopping I take my daughter. If I want a country walk I take my husband and son and drag along my daughter. I hate what he watches on TV and he hates what I watch. He doesn't read novels, he reads manuals. It's what happens in between that count, we get on very well and enjoy each others company.

But if I suggest taking to kids to - say - Tate Modern, DD would be quite up for it as she is doing ART GCSE but DS assumes it will be boring because his dad does a yawning gesture to him.

I think that's unacceptable parenting. The fact that it's a gallery isn't the point; the point is one parent undermining the other is not OK. I'd have his guts for garters just over that.

@shamalidacdak

Sorry to say but All men are like this. You're in for a rude awakening if you think you'll find another man who shares your interests. Unfortunately they morph into single interest species and it's usually watching sports , drinking and sex. It's a well known phenomenon that men would just sit on the couch for the rest of their lives if it wasn't for women dragging them out.

What utter nonsense.

There are a lot of people on this thread who think that I THINK I am superior because Art vs Football. This is not the case. As well as 'culture', as I have already pointed out, I look at instagram too much am obsessed with America's Next Top Model and sit on my arse eating chocolate at times. It's not about my hobbies being superior, it's about the fact that I actively engage in lots of things, whilst his engagement is with one thing and it's pretty passive. He has no appetite or willingness to even talk about anything different, let alone try anything different. He doesn't get even the most basic cultural references - for example if someone said something was a bit 'Stepford Wives' he wouldn't have a clue what they were talking about. Just stuff like that. So I find myself policing how I speak - especially in company - so as not to make him feel ignorant. And I'll sometimes jump into a conversation to save him from showing that he doesn't know what someone is talking about when it's something that most people would understand.

Now I sound sneery and I hate it. Fucking hell, it's really hard to articulate without sounding like a massive, superior wanker. I'm just fed up of everything being 'dumbed down'.

Yes, it's about attitude I think.
I am not well educated. I live rurally and am disabled and literally don't get out much. But I AM interested in the wider world and want my kids to be too. My exH not so much. It's not that I am right or he is wrong but I am more outward looking. And I don't sneer at him for being insular. I am a bit sad about it (it has got worse over the years) but it is just 'him'. But equally, I don't expect to be sneered at. Especially in front of the kids.
@Ginkpin
It's not 'art vs football' - that's just reverse snobbery.
Neither thing is better or worse, just different.
It's you feeling lonely that he won't bother to take an interest.
That's okay if you feel okay about having others to fill that gap / don't mind lots of your own company in your interests. But it's okay not to feel that way too and wonder how many years you'd feel lonely for, esp after the children have left home.

He doesn't get even the most basic cultural references - for example if someone said something was a bit 'Stepford Wives' he wouldn't have a clue what they were talking about. Just stuff like that. So I find myself policing how I speak - especially in company - so as not to make him feel ignorant. And I'll sometimes jump into a conversation to save him from showing that he doesn't know what someone is talking about when it's something that most people would understand.

I can totally understand this, having been in a marriage like this myself for 11 years. And I understand what you mean: its not about your pursuits being intrinsically superior to his or anything. The killer is the reluctance to engage or be open.

I really have no problem with someone who doesn't understand, for example, politics, being open about this in conversation, and saying: "I really don't follow this closely but this sounds interesting, please explain". But I would find it embarrassing if someone shrugged or shut the conversation down or changed the subject back to football.

Lack of knowledge or education is not the problem. It's lack of willingness to engage.

I don't really know what the solution is to be honest: I wasn't very successful at getting past this because my husband didn't think it was a problem and didn't want to change. I think if he'd been more open to it I might have been able to meet half way. But its very delicate to bring up someone's lack of education or knowledge.

Have you discussed it at all?

@shamalidacdak

Sorry to say but All men are like this. You're in for a rude awakening if you think you'll find another man who shares your interests. Unfortunately they morph into single interest species and it's usually watching sports , drinking and sex. It's a well known phenomenon that men would just sit on the couch for the rest of their lives if it wasn't for women dragging them out.

Either an unfunny joke, or poster is an idiot

Hmm quite a lot of people wouldn't necessarily get that cultural reference though. I suspect it would go over the heads of (for example) a couple of people I know professionally who have Oxbridge law degrees because they have no interest in pop culture (their interests are strictly pre 20th century ). Also anyone in my office under 30, although if you ask them about reality TV they would be on fire!

Do you never discuss politics or current affairs, the economy, that kind of thing?

But are you asking him to be something he's never been? Maybe he's always been like this? Your job is in broadcasting, so it kinda goes without saying that your interests would be aligned with that. He's a company director - golf or football/rugby, or gym seem to be what would spring to mind there.
He could maybe do with pepping up a bit, we've all got dragged down this year, sounds like he needs more exercise - joint walks together ? It's finding something you can both engage with and share to bring you together. Food usually gets a man interested, or if he likes a drink, maybe wine tasting ( still cultural). So cooking together, maybe planning healthier diet, perhaps some form of exercise together. He may just need some encouragement to get started.

I was feeling similar about my DH, that we'd outgrown each other as our interests are very different now, and I felt unfulfilled and disappointed, and that maybe I could have chosen better and found someone who shared my interests.

But then I moved away from feeling like this. Not sure what happened as our interests are still different. I think I've just moved into accepting that now, rather than being annoyed about it.

Before the pandemic started, I'd resolved to make an effort to find more friends locally (my three closest friends have all moved away), and to make sure I do the things I enjoy doing, even if he doesn't want to. The pandemic has put a pause on some of that, but for some reason the anger and frustration and disappointment have just melted away.

And I'll sometimes jump into a conversation to save him from showing that he doesn't know what someone is talking about when it's something that most people would understand.

But then you are acting as if you are ashamed of him in front of other people. That is overstepping and quite insulting. Let him join in or not, make a fool of himself or not. Let him be who he is and navigate social occasions himself. Maybe he feels OK about showing he doesn't know what they are talking about, or if not it is his problem to solve, not yours. There's no shame in asking "what's a Stepford wife" but you are talking as if not knowing is some kind of social crime.

@AmaryllisNightAndDay

And I'll sometimes jump into a conversation to save him from showing that he doesn't know what someone is talking about when it's something that most people would understand.

But then you are acting as if you are ashamed of him in front of other people. That is overstepping and quite insulting. Let him join in or not, make a fool of himself or not. Let him be who he is and navigate social occasions himself. Maybe he feels OK about showing he doesn't know what they are talking about, or if not it is his problem to solve, not yours. There's no shame in asking "what's a Stepford wife" but you are talking as if not knowing is some kind of social crime.

Of course there's no "shame" in this, but when you get to the point when you're having to dumb your conversation down to make yourself understood by a partner there's a problem. If you are routinely limiting your own potential to prevent someone else feeling threatened, its a dead end.

@AmaryllisNightAndDay

And I'll sometimes jump into a conversation to save him from showing that he doesn't know what someone is talking about when it's something that most people would understand.

But then you are acting as if you are ashamed of him in front of other people. That is overstepping and quite insulting. Let him join in or not, make a fool of himself or not. Let him be who he is and navigate social occasions himself. Maybe he feels OK about showing he doesn't know what they are talking about, or if not it is his problem to solve, not yours. There's no shame in asking "what's a Stepford wife" but you are talking as if not knowing is some kind of social crime.

If I don't jump in and 'cover' for him, I KNOW he will feel embarrassed. I used to just things roll, but he would come away saying things like "I don't fit in". I try to do it in a way that means nobody - including DH - realise it's happened and just think I"m a bit 'interrupt-y'.

If you are routinely limiting your own potential to prevent someone else feeling threatened, its a dead end.

Good point, but it depends on whether it is him who feels threatened when other people see his lack of cultural knowledge. I got the impression it was her. Perhaps I got that wrong and he feels threatened and then takes it out on her?