Dating Thread 197 - Dating into 2021 and beyond

[Dancerinthemoonlight]

The Rules:

1. The first rule about the dating thread is don't talk about it with people you're dating.
2. Develop a thick skin.
3. Do not invest emotionally too soon.
4. It's all BS until it actually happens.
5. Trust your gut instinct.
6. People vanishing, lying & being generally weird is not your fault.
7. Know your worth.
8. If it's not fun, stop.
9. Loo update is mandatory.

10. No dating the thread. 11. Treat others as you'd like to be treated 12. Any relationship you have that could get ruined by having a conversation about your feelings, standards and/or expectations wasn't really stable enough to begin with 13. The things you choose to ignore/ tolerate now are the reasons you will break up in the future 14. OLD can get very time consuming. Keep doing other activities you enjoy.

Optional: Please give your irons (potential dates you are talking to) nicknames like Mr Scottish. Initials are allowed (Mr S) when you are an item

Sleeping with someone on date X is no guarantee of them not being a giant bellend. Better to get that out of the way early doors I reckon.

I'm slightly 🤔 and 🤨 about the whole asking loads of questions on a date and whether it is such a big deal for a few reasons.

1/ It's not an interview. You're not a candidate for a position. Ideally (for me) it is a free flowing fun conversation where you both hit some kind of flow state. This may involve no overt questioning whatsoever but where you still discover an awful lot. Open and decent people talk about themselves and listen in good measure. Keeping a scorecard about a date. UGH !!!

2/ You will find out who someone thinks they are, not who they are.

3/ It's too intense a requirement that someone has to learn everything about you in a short time frame. I feel a respectful need not to invade the privacy of the person I'm on a date with, especially when it comes to their internal ruminations, dreams, desires. Too heavy.

@HairyArsedMan I'm not filtering out on not asking loads of Qs I'm screening out on ZERO questions!

How many kids do you have? How old are they? What do you do for work? How long have you been single?

I only do a first date after a 'good' phone chat and can confirm that this has always been a hilarious two way chatathon with me offering info & them likewise

But this is where I've gone wrong. Because it felt like a good exchange I missed noticing they asked nothing and this dysfunctional theme persisted through the relationships which ensued.

For me (and again I stress you are all at liberty to form your own standards, boundaries, preferences and red/free flags) I will not tolerate anyone who isn't genuinely keen to find out who I am and where I've been and what I've done for my nearly 5 decades.
Again this is, as per @Dancerinthemoonlight dysfunctional dad situation, an attempt to break away from my comfort zone being with blokes who act like my dire selfish dad.

I might have a red flag with Mr K 🙁

We are nearly at 15 months, we were FB after meeting on Fab and discussed exclusivity/a proper relationship in June although we had been exclusive since Dec 19 but hadn't discussed it.

A bit of background on Mr K which might impact his behaviour, he was a typical lad when he was younger, ended up marrying a girl from college a few years later so she could live back in the UK (her parents died when she was early teens and she came to the UK to live with an Aunt but could only stay while she was in education so in her early twenties she was sent back to her birth country and Mr K felt it was only right to marry her and so she could be back with the family who brought her up), they were married 5 years and she cheated on him.
I know she stonewalled him a lot and no discussions about anything connected to her were permitted, stonewalling could last weeks until the issue was brushed under the carpet.

He had a year single (but playing the field) and then met a woman from a dating site, he was with her for 3 years and stayed there 5 nights a week roughly. He also had his own flat which he was sent to for 2 nights a week.
It transpired that on those other nights she was sleeping with her ex (father of her 2 youngest children), Mr K stayed the first and second time he found out because they had intergrated families etc but on the third he left.
By all accounts it was her way or the high way and nothing was up for discussion.

So this brings me to my issue, we have discussed good communication in relationships as my ex husband also used to stonewall or gaslight me and i wasn't allowed to ever discuss my emotions or stuff he did (hence brushing his emotional affairs under the carpet for 17 years)

Mr K and I meet on a Tues, Thurs and Fri, these are sleepovers at each others houses.
We also used to meet on a Sunday until recent - usually would be 3 out of 5 Sundays.
He has his son every weekend and sometimes he's so exhausted and spent he just wants time at home which I totally understand.
Sunday was always kept as a maybe for meeting and then plans would be firmed up or not around 4pm, if he wasnt clming round he would just text and say he is having the evening at home and abit about his day.
I've never had any issues with this and he has mentioned how easygoing I am and never complain when he isnt coming round.

Last Sunday he text me at 4 and asked how my day was and we had a brief exchange about our days, no mention of whether he was coming round or not so an hour later I messaged and said 'I assume you arent coming round', he replied to say his weekend had been manic and he wanted to be at home and did i mind.
I replied,like i always do, to say of course its not a problem but then i added that i would appreciate a direct message about him not coming rather than vague messages from which i have to guess.

He immediately replied and said that we just wont meet on Sundays now so everyone is clear.

I just said ok and a bit later he messaged to say he missed me, cared for me a lot but just wanted some downtime.

I'm not sure if I'm overthinking abd my message was rude or whether he got on the defensive immediately.

Similar happened earlier this year, we used to meet most Mondays as well and despite me telling him that he never got time on his own (when he wasnt seeing me he had his son),he said it was fine.
Some Mondays he would message and say he wouldnt be round which was fair enough but then one day he did vague messages which hinted at him not coming round and i told him then i wanted him tobe upfront and not drop hints.
His reaction was to say not to meet on Mondays at all.

Part of me thinks its a red flag (and he has thrown his toys out of the pram) and part of me thinks that he needed time on his own but wasnt able to tell me as he is used to the women in his life moaning or ignoring him.

I haven't spoken to him yet about the most recent incident as I haven't had a chance to but the first one I did and he agreed to be upfront all the time, not just 99.9%.

Or am I being the twat in this?

Sorry for the huge post but wanted to include everything.

@HairyArsedMan and @Ruralbliss - I think i'm somewhere between the two really - I would like some questions but also a normal-ish flow of conversation.

What do we do with dates that cancel the day before because they're feeling unwell (Not covid) but has suggested a day later in the week?

@SortingItOut I don't think you are overthinking but right to think about this pattern you are seeing emerge.

My view is that text is bloody great but dire for this kind of communication and if the above exchange had taken place via phone you'd have more data as could have heard the intonation in his voice and therefore know for a fact whether it was a 'Screw you Sunday's are out then if you can't handle the ambiguity of a vague message' or instead you might have heard him putting this as a gentle suggestion as one solution to the problem of amibuois guesswork over text.

Hard to say but with his background I would suggest having a good chat plus bringing up the 'This happened with out Mondays too...'

Sorry this has happened. Seems like a shame and hopefully just a minor comms confusion rather than a red flag of weirdness.

@LongtimelurkerL I'd give them the benefit of the doubt if they've suggested an alternative day but would let them drive it to test their enthusiasm.

@SortingItOut does seem a bit odd - i'd hope that amount seeing each other would increase rather than decrease as time goes on - def worth a discussion I think

@Ruralbliss yeah good idea - when you say let them drive it what do you mean? Just say yeah I can do X day and say hope you feel better?

Yes @LongtimelurkerL exactly that then sit back, forget about them and see if they get in touch to (a) seal the deal (b) chat with you via text/phone in the meantime.

I had a guy bail on a phone chat last night but offered a new date so I just did the above 'No probs. Hope the situation gets sorted. Yes can do Tuesday if after 7pm'

Haven't heard a dicky bird back from him since (and had forgotten all about it/him until this thread) so he's not trying hard or has let me slide. Whatever

@Ruralbliss thanks - hope he gets back in touch!

@Ruralbliss - Yeah a zero question monologue would be very eyebrow raising but the two way chat-athon you reference but with zero questions sounds contradictory, if not impossible. Still, I wouldn't get hung up on the question count. It's about responding to conversational cues and exchanging thoughts, ideas, experiences etc.

All those questions you posit as examples are usually done and dusted by the time you get to meet in person or chat on the phone. They are fundamental in the sense of knowing where someone is at in life and covering logistics but for me are mostly discardable when it comes down to figuring out whether you will get along together.

I stand by my thoughts that asking questions can be seen as too intense, and too much too soon, and of limited usefulness as everyone is presenting their best early doors. This is all me projecting of course - I'm a gentle self effacing soul and never ever want to be the centre of attention so I'd be very happy to go on a date and not face a single question !

@Ruralbliss
Thanks for commenting, i really want it to be a comms issue rather than a red flag because he is great and we get along brilliantly and want the same out of our relationship (not living together, no merging families or finance).
I also know I'm on high alert due to my emotionally abusive marriage and I'm never sure whats normal or not.

@LongtimelurkerL
I actually dont mind not seeing him on Sundays as I already see him 3 evenings.
We actually used to see each other every night just for a few hours as our relationship was all about sex but now its a proper relationship i feel 3 times a week is fine and it gives him time on his own (previously he had no nights on his own) as well as everyone needs that.

That makes sense @SortingItOut - I hope you can clear up any miscommunication easily

@SortingItOut do you think he's a bit scared to communicate that he wants a bit of time to himself at times? I think given you've been together so long now, it's worth a discussion to say how you are feeling about how he's reacted. To me it sounds like he feels you are annoyed at him and he's just throwing his toys out of the pram.

@LongtimelurkerL I'd be annoyed personally but would probably go with the rearranged date and give them the benefit of the doubt. This happened to me when I got food poisoning and although the guy was ok with rearranging, he later backed out because I think he thought my food poisoning was an excuse!

Just back from seeing Mr Yoga this weekend. We had a really wonderful time together as always. It was his birthday and I'd really put a lot of thought and effort into his presents and making the day special as I knew a lock down birthday didn't feel very fun to him. He loved it all and sent me a note saying he had an amazing time, better than anything he could have imagined and I was really pleased I was a part of that. We will now try and socially distance till Xmas but might do a walk again at some point.

Aww @Eesha that sounds lovely!

Thanks, hoping it's not an excuse and he's actually feeling poorly and the new date goes ahead. Fingers crossed for me

@Eesha
Thanks for your thoughts.
I definitely think he is scared of saying he wants time on his own, not because of my reaction (because I'm not too fussed if communicated properly and I'm slwsys fine with it) but because in past short term relationships the women have complained about the amount of time he spends with his son and they always wanted to see him as much as possible and when he couldnt they moaned a lot.
He told me that they used to plan things for weekends and he felt bad so he would not see his son and go and do this thing instead and then feel guilty about his son.
Luckily these relationships didnt last much past an occasion like that as he finished with them over it but I think it does show that he doesn't seem to be able to speak up for himself and actually say what he wants or needs.

I will raise it but its tricky to find the time, our evenings are so busy due to my hectic life and my kids are at home, my ideal time to discuss things is in bed but he finds that the worst as he stews on it (even if resolved) so then doesn't sleep all night.

Mornings are fine apparently but i wouldnt want to do that as he works and then might be distracted all day.

After work could work but then he has his son 2 evenings in the week so i dont want to intrude on that and weekends he has his son also so not much time at all really.

Oh bugger, might need to suggest a meet up quickly on Thursday after work before our normal meet time so we can chat about it and if he then wants the evening to himself he can.....

@HairyArsedMan and that's exactly the point it should be eyebrow raising that there are zero Qs but they've gotten through due to loose screen standards in the past and I know it sounds utterly ridiculous but we are verging on the vitctim shaming so I'm not going to be taking the flack for letting unsuitables into my life but just glad I've worked it out now & not later.

I just braved looking at mine & Mr VWs first excited text exchanges when we matched - clearly both found mutual attraction in pics & profiles then we were straight on to music and sharing pics of various things we had in common. A couple of meaningless Qs like favourite city and books etc but ZERO Qs from him to me. He just didn't care.

That night we had an hour of chat but by chat I do recall it being a monologue notably memorable because in first minute he'd realised he has same condition as me but I had to butt in slightly awkwardly ages into the 'chat' to reveal I knew what he was talking about as I too have had it since a child.

Now obviously light of this thread and my new view of this situation it sounds implausible that anyone would agree to go on a date with someone like this but I promise you it's not obvious unless you're looking for it and don't forget it's tangled up in the giddiness of a match which looks like a good one & this last time (fourth of five I ignored the No Qs Red Flag 🚩) was easily obscured due to tales of fame, fortune and his utter hotness.

Happy he was the one who showed me the light. As much as I fell for him and still trying to get him out of my head on waking and throughout the day I was never anything other than a warm body to him.

Now I'll know that next time I'm swept up if everything is one sided

It's like trying to explain an abusive marriage to someone who hasn't had the misfortune. How could you not see he was being an utter shit to you and the kids for twenty years? I dunno I thought it was a good marriage and he was my soulmate.

My dad has a lot to answer for I now realise.

I've been on 3 lovely dates and a 4th planned for this week but I'm trying to chill about things! Easier said than done! Any advice?
I don't want to be the one to message him first but sometimes I wish he'd message me in the day but he doesn't and then I spend all day wondering when he'll message!!
Crazy really as I'm super busy with work, family and Christmas preps but I'm constantly over thinking and not wanting to come across like a nutter - I don't think I am!
I know I just enjoy it, which I am but wish I knew where I stood argh!!

@Eesha
Forgot to say I'm so pleased Mr Yoga enjoyed his birthday and he thanked you.

I don't think you need to worry about what he did with his ex as he is clearly making really great memories with you and yours are different memories.

And while I'm sharing with you my new rules I'm verging on not messaging blokes who make the match but then don't write a message.

If I'm the one to match I always write a brief hello intro and something funny (and a question! 😂) but beginning to think of they're not interested enough to get in touch then whatever. Bye 👋 take care now.

Hey everyone,still lurking.
SortingItOut personally I wouldn't say anything. To me he sounds a very sensitive soul and obviously has spent previous years trying to please ex girlfriends,being a wonderful father and at the same time being conscientious trying to keep everyone happy. As long as you dont feel a pang of rejection ( and to be honest,I would but I'd understand) and you know how much he cares then I probably wouldn't bring it up?
Tinder has suddenly sprouted some great guys! Not sure from where but I'm having some really good chats.
One is very keen to meet so hopefully that's next week. He has no kids and I'm kind of wondering how he has absolutely no time to meet for a quick hour? He was busy all weekend whilst I sat around watching TV and baked a cake.He is busy all this week too?! I need a cat in the hat who is up for meeting and can fill his diary full of old dates 😊 He asked to call me but I said I'd rather meet up first. I just dont want to invest in someone I dont know anymore,apart from odd message until a meet.
I had a walk in the woods two weeks ago with someone on my fb who I went to school with and havent seen I years. Was fun.attractive.Then we had a co op coffee in the car park and he went on to say tonight would be messy as he was getting drunk and taking coke 🤷‍♀️ So that's a no. Was so nearly there as well!

@LongtimelurkerL in the past I wouldn't have agreed to a rearranged date until I actually got sick myself! It can happen!

@SortingItOut I think it's hard for anyone to say they need time apart to do other things as they don't want to upset the apple cart. I think you just have to explain that you'd be ok with this as you both have busy lives and sometimes you need that time. For what it's worth, Mr Yoga sometimes needs the odd weekend to sort his place out/life admin and I've gotten used to this but I have tried to insist he gives me notice at least instead of telling me last minute (after I've washed my hair!)

With Mr Yoga, I really wanted him to have a lovely birthday whether I saw him or not so I got the cake and gift etc. I think we are making nice memories together in these weird times. His ex is a bit of a shadow with the obvious impact it had on him, mainly him almost losing everything he had, but I think we both have had our share of complicated situations and feel comfortable just simply enjoying each other's company.

@Eesha yeah I’m trying to reserve judgment until day Thursday when he will have either not sorted anything or cancelled again I guess. Or ghosted!!

@Ruralbliss what do you advise doing if he responds to my initial message but doesn’t ask any questions or anything. Thinking I just leave it and see what happens? Urgh I hate dating

I'd keep swiping @LongtimelurkerL and make matches with other guys as well as this one as will help to keep an open mind and not pin hopes on someone you don't know. Then see what happens next with him and all of them.

Yeah I’m doing that @Ruralbliss don’t worry