SUPPORT THREAD FOR THE PARTNERS OF ADDICTS

[lemonstartree]

having read all the posts on princesshobnob's thraet It struck me (prob because I am one of them) how may women are living with addicts/abusive men (does one cause the other etc etc!)

thought maybe we could do with our own support thread.

I have recently kicked out my cannabis head husband. It has been hard, but not as hard as livig with his dope smoking and verbal abuse (to me) and physical abuse of the children.

So much of what other women wrote reasonated with me; the wanting another chance; the lying; the erratic behaviour; the blaming me (you) for their problems; the financial mess; the wanting sex when high - when tbh you hate them and have never wanted it less; the messing with your head until you think its YOU with the problem.

I am a bit further on than some of you - its 2 months since my marriage ended,
but my H says he has now stopped smoking cannabis, he has found a job and starts this week and he is NOW thnking hes 'done enough' to be given a second (read 50TH) chance.
I am expecting trouble whan I make it clear that some thngs cannot be repaired however Sorry you are that they are broken....

ZK - so sorry. I think it's worse when it affects the kids too. Like when he's been barricaded into a room and dd is knocking on the door calling out daddy. It breaks my heart. And hardens my heart against him too.

GUP - I don't think you're going mad. My theory is you've reached a stage when you're feeling like something has to be done, and the reason you feel like you're going mad is you've put up with things so long, believed them, supported them... now you're standing up for yourself, and your thoughts are totally different.

I am trying to keep to boundaries. Refused to give him money for a takeaway, even portion of chips, as explained that if he didn't have me, he would have no money for such things. Provided him with cheap home cooked stew, and no more. A small thing, but felt empowered. The amount of money he's spent on drugs makes me sick. Never a thought to buying nappies or food for us, just him him him.

And GUP - you're not being cynical. Of course they look for excuses. Dp does it cos it's new year, christmas, birthday month, feeling down, celebrating.... probably cos it's Tuesday or the sky is blue for all I know.

Hi everyone, wouldnt it be easier if they all just decided who they were and stayed that way. jekyll or hyde? just pick one and stop messing with our heads!! it easier to live without a drunk but its when the drunk is sober that the doubts set in and you start wondering whether you have done the right thing.

i felt happier when he was gone - but only so long as he was drinking. i actually liked it being just me and ds as there was nobody to resent for me being worn out. (although i only have 1 dc and cant imagine what its like on your own with 3!!) i knew when he was drinking that we were better off and i was doing ok.

but now dh has been sober for 4 weeks and seems like his old self again. he wants to come home and to be honest when hes like this i want him home - the love i have for him has taken an almighty battering but for some reason its stil there. he is staying over. he is funny and caring and really great with ds again.

i told a friend that despite everything he has done, i cant end my marriage because i cant stand the idea of my dh recovering only to be walking round town with someone else.

but theres that nagging doubt that if i give in and let him home for good - what happens if it all starts again. i know that if that happens i will make him leave again and then i will have to end it for good.

LST - you are not selfish or self centred and i am sure everyone on this thread would agree with me there.

you did love him - a hell of a lot - or you would never have stayed so long. it was more than he deserved and you know that!!

i hope for your dh's sake that he stays clean and can rebuild his relationships with his kids. but its ok for you to say you are not part of the deal. xxx

MickeyLOu I SO know where you are coming from. It IS hard to decide what to do/ I dont know if I can love him again, or if I do love him really or if actually he has killed it. I know I am exhausted and very stressed caring for 3 kids with a FT job on my own; but I am trying not to let the thought of an extra pair of hands influence me.
part of my problem is the violence. He swears that he was violent because he was either high, or craving drugs, or worried because he couldnt get them. I am not so sure. I know there are no guarentees but a man who could hit his kids?

The children are, of course, desperate to have him home, and our 9 year old is clearly haveing some problems. I dont think that is a good enough reason to have him home either.

It seems to me that unless I can love him then there is no point.

There are so so many issues that we need to address. He says they all come fomr his drug use, but again I am not sure. His refusal to ever discuss 'decisions' such as where the dc would go to school; his frittering of money and no interest in discussing a family budget; his total disinterest in my job/business; his possessiveness; his constant anxiety and agression about stupid trivial things. all these thigs are big big issues that cannot just be swept under the carpet because he has been clean for 8 weeks.... and who knows if he will stay clean ?

Princess hobnob and Ginnedup pumpkin I so hope you are OK...and your dp/dh are soberish...

zookeeper when did you kick your h out ? I know he has carried on drinking , but when he went did you know it was for good??

Hi Everyone - i'm at work so can't really reply now but am following the thread still!

Lemontree, I think you are me!

I am on an up at the moment congratulating myself on having washed my hads of it all but in an hour's time could be upset again. I feel a bit like I felt when I gave up somking - totally euphoric to be free of it one moment but desperate for a drag the next.

Maybe it's us that are the addicts.

Lemontree, ex (how strange that feels to write)dp and I had a massive argument in May which he responded to by getting drunk at 9am which was my rock bottom. He finally went at the end of July after a two month stand-off. Ironically, during that time he didn't drink but neither was he apologetic about the pain his drinking caused. At the time I felt that even if he stopped drinking I couldn't live with possibility of him starting again but subconsiously I thought that if he could stop drinking for , say a year and get a job etc then I would reconsider but I didn't tell him that as I didn't want to feel responsible for him.

Even now he accepts no responsibility for what has happened. Yesterday he emailed me and said that I had finished our relationship for my own "utterly selfish reasons" It makes me so angry when he says that. If he could have stopped pouring Special Brew down his stupid neck then we would still be together.

If ending a relationship because I couldn't live with his alcoholism and the ensuing arguments and their effect on the dcs is "utterly selfish" then I suppose I am.

If he was being nice and begging forgiveness and trying to make amends I would find it very very hard and I can understand the mixed feelings that we all have so well.

Although it's painful for me that he met another woman so soon in a way it has helped me to stay free of him becasue if he didn't have her I am sure he would be phoning me every day as he was when he initially left.

How are the rest of you? Will get back later this weekend

I find this thread such a support. Thanks everyone

ZK - your ex telling you how selfish you are sounds so familiar. My partner says I am selfish for wanting to split up, and that it's because my parents split up so I have that mentality.
I suppose they have to blame everyone else for the consequences of THEIR actions, and they are angry that you're putting others (like yourself and kids) before their needs.

LST - I know what you mean about finding it difficult to know what can be attributed to the addiction, and what is just a problem in the relationship. Partner always swears he loves me - something I find it impossible to say back to him at the moment - but he calls me stupid, puts me down, creates arguments out of everything, prefers lying around watching films to taking an active part in the household, is basically lazy and selfish. Yes he's charming, and he can almost always make me laugh even when I'm angry, and he has some other good qualities, but at the moment, even if he stopped taking drug, and the obvious problems went, i would not want to be with him unless lots of other things changed too. And I have no idea how different he'd be if he was clean.

He says he hasn't taken anything since Monday nearly 2 weeks ago, but he certainly behaved like he did on Wednesday night - locking himself in his room, watching porn, waking me up at 5am wanting sex, and claiming he'd just woken up himself rather than still being awake 5 hours after getting in (this from a man who i can barely stir to get up for work at 7am, or even 9/later! Watching porn / heavy breathing / sweating afterwards so duvet drenched....
He denies it all, but the fact that he wanted sex at all is a bit of a giveaway. He has no interest in sex at all unless high as far as I can tell, and then he's obsessively interested. Before he went out, he'd commented on how he really has no libido these days..... and he cannot understand why I don't believe him!!!!!

Sorry for rant. Just needed to let it all out.

I get the selfish comment as well.

Selfish to want to separate when there is a DS in the middle... Selfish to not hand over all my hard earn money to pay for his debts, selfish to not let him touch me, selfish to enjoy my friends' company and selfish to ignore him!

I am not posting often but I'm reading this thread and I'm comforted by the lack of imagination from the addicts in our life. If one was to listen to them everything is OUR FAULT and obviously it isn't.

Mickeylou - I could have written that post, its exactly the situation I'm in. At the moment he's sober, he's lovely, making tons of effort, but its spoilt by the underlying threat that tomorrow, or the next day, or whenever he could turn back into the drunken pig I hate so much. I too wish he could be one or the other, then I could decide once and for all to stay with him or not.

That's why I like this thread (and the fab and glam thread), there's no judging, nobody says "why have him back when he did such and such?". Because nobody can understand until they are in this situation.

How is everyone else?

GUP - i do so agree! In theoy I knew what an addict was like, but until you live in close proximity to one you can have no idea how awful it is. there is no judging here because we have all been there...... and may be again....

i think now that i would never again get involved with anyone who took illegal drugs or about whom I had the slightest concern about their alcohol intake......but to me it begs the question why did i do this the first time??

zk- I know what you mean about YOUR rock bottom. I think mine was when my h hit our 5 year old son around the head, and when I challenged him said 'He spat at me' as an excuse for hitting ds. I looked at ds and he said 'I didn't mummy'.... and I KNEW he was telling me the truth. so im looking at my husband who is teaching my child that hitting, lying and manipulation are ok. That as a powerful adult you can lie and get away with awful behaviour...... and I think a large part of any love I had for him died at that point.

princess - His lying is wearing isn't. you find yourself hoping/trying to catch him out and prove that he is lying - but then he lies more so you start doubting your own sanity...and trying to catch your partner out is hardly what we signed up to is it????

big supportive hugs to all

lst xxx

oh LST you have sooo done the right thing x

LST, Thankyou for starting this thread - I have only just found it, as I've been away from MN for a few weeks. I am just about to finish work so will have to join in later this evening (grrrr)....It is good to hear from MickeyLou, Attila & Motheroftwoboys again . And hearing from everyone else. It is lovely to be having support from people who know what it is like to be living with such godawful shitty behaviour!

Hi there secretsquirrel.... welcome

hope everyone has had a good day. My H took out the younger two boys today, really he is so much better. When he brought them home he made me laugh again (in a good way) for the first time in I don't know how long.... for the first time tonight since he left (August 25th) I kind of wish he was here......

this is hard.

I thought kicking him out was hard but this is harder...

Stay strong LST. That's how he wants you to feel. Remember how good they are at manipulating us?
Its hard to remember the bad things when they are all nice, but try and focus on why you split, not what he's like now.
It is good though that he is spending time with the dc and sorting himself out. I hope it lasts and he has changed, I really do. It would be great to see a happy ending on here

PS Welcome Secret Squirrel!!

Yes, I'm back now...
My DH (of 5 years)is an alcoholic, still actively drinking and although I have been going to Al Anon for nearly a year, there are no signs of him admitting to having a problem or seeking help.

I have tried my damndest to not react to his behaviour, to detatch from the sickness and not the person (with love - so hard as I'm sure you all know).

We have a DD who is nearly 4, and of course, she is more than aware of the fact that 'Daddy is very sick' - I find this part the hardest of all. He tries very hard to carry on as normal but his behaviour is anything but.

And of course, he has lost his job and I'm doing the plate spinning. His parents also deny that there is a problem but it's all a bit close to home as they are very heavy drinkers themselves.

Anyway, that's me and I am 'so glad to be here' - if just to know that I'm not alone. Those of you who have taken the decision to get out - you are so very brave and I salute you. I'm not quite at that stage yet, but it is getting harder to carry on when there doesn't appear to be any change for the better coming from him....as usual I seem to be give give giving!

Welcome Secretsquirrel, hope you find the thread helpful

LST - it's really great that you ex is doing well, and able to spend time with the dcs - that must help in giving you a bit of a break as well. The fact that you're getting on is very positive too, as it will be much better for the dcs. But it's still really early days.

My dp has been much more pleasant lately amd I've caught myself thinking maybe we can live together even if we're not exactly together romantically, but I'm trying to remember that there have been loads of occasions when I've sat crying thinking if only I'd thrown him out last time, I wouldn't be in this situation yet again.

He seems so confident he's "cured", I only wish I was as certain.

Hi Secretsquirrel - sorry, I cross posted - may not look like it from the times, but I went down to snack in the middle of typing.

I think leaving is very hard, and i think that the partner of the addict has to reach rock bottom in their own way before they make this decision.

I think that it's the children that make it hardest. If it was just me, I'd be long long gone. But children can be both a motive to stay, ad the best reason to go.

It seems like children often end up in relationships with addicts when they've grown up with 1, or go on to have addiction problems themselves. When partner is nice, and normal, I think how hard it is to split up the family, to deprive both him and dd of living together. Other times I dread how my dd's life will be affected if we stay.

It's so hard. I'm sure people not in this situation just go, get out ffs, how can you stay. But it's not that simple when you're in it, is it.

Yes, you're right about that, PHN!

Though this past couple of months DH has been very ill which has tested me to the limits...I could just leave myself with DD but then I have a 'reality check' of the different kind. Perhaps he is nearer to rock bottom than I imagine?

I know that once he does, and he finds AA, that it will be another round of challenging behaviour, but in the meantime I find the situation I have now just intolerable. I'm struggling to stop myself getting out (if that makes any sense!).

I've been looking at the Families Anonymous website, and I have found that quite helpful. It's about changing the way you react to an addict, and realising that YOU matter, and YOU have your own life to lead.

I find that so much of my life revolves around him, and the choices he makes, and that's all wrong.

I'm hoping to be able to attend a family support group on Monday - I think there's a bit of me that is expecting to be presented with a magic answer!

Anyway, it is comforting to know that there are other people out there stuck in a similar situation, feeling the same thing, being told the same thing by our partners, because being with an addict is pretty lonely and isolating I find

Hi Secret Squirrel

Why are you struggling to stop yourself getting out?. Perhaps you feel that if you go you will have somehow failed him. No, that is not the case at all. He made a conscious choice.

I have said it before and it bears repeating - alcoholics are some of the most selfish people in the world. Their primary relationship first and foremost is with drink , absolutely everything else comes and dim and distant second.

There are no guarantees - your DH may not find AA or even want to be helped by them or anyone else. A person cannot act as a rescuer in a relationship or save someone who does not want to be saved.

I would agree with comments that Princess Hobnob made in one of her previous postings. Some children of alcoholic parents can go onto meet alcoholic partners themselves in adulthood. When I have asked other posters whether they themselves saw alcoholism or alcoholic parents/relatives in their childhood, the response often given is yes. These people become super responsible for the alcoholic.

This is no way for either of you to be living. We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents - what's your daughter learning here?.

Am sorry if any of this comes over as hard to stomach or harsh, it is not meant to be thus.

There are many people who suffer from addictions, and in some cases their loved ones actually enable the addiction because they want to help. Sure, you want to help the one you love to overcome addiction, but you definitely to not want to enable the addiction any further.

Take a minute to think about an addict. They intend to continue what they are doing no matter what. Why not go ahead and get someone to help him with the addiction? You see, without someone to enable him, an addict would need to start dealing with all the consequences that his actions cause, which could actually bring the addiction to an end. Unfortunately many well intentioned enablers actually help to protect the addict from the problems that are a result of the addiction.

In some cases family members actually help the addict get the drug in a safe manner to try to protect them. They are afraid that they will get hurt or that they will go with withdrawal and so they go on to help their loved one keep using, which does not fix the problem at all. Some of the actions that may signal you are acting as an enabler include making excuses, lying, and helping your loved one to get what they need. This means you are no longer helping them, you are enabling them to continue in their addiction.

Usually this type of behaviour starts out quite slowly over time and in the beginning is just behaviour that is used to help smooth things over. People want to keep their family problems a secret so they keep their mouth shut. Also, many times denial of the problem actually affects the enabler and they rationalize things away to try and avoid the problem that is occurring. Sadly, the problem will not just go away.

Once a person starts enabling an addict, it turns into a cycle. The person who is addicted never has to deal with consequences, and so they continue in their addictive behaviour. Since their addiction becomes even worse, then the enabler gets drawn deeper and deeper into the problem. Soon this turns into more chaos in the home, which an addict will use for an excuse to continue using.

So, how can you get this cycle to end? Well, while the person who is enabling the situation may be fearful and full of shame, at some point this will probably turn into anger. While they may try to bottle it all up, at some point it is going to come out in an explosion. They will be sick of excuses and they will need to decide to lovingly detach themselves from the situation.

This means that now there are no more excuses being made by the enabler, and suddenly the addict has to deal with the consequences of their addiction. In some cases this may lead them to try and find treatment for their addiction. Usually people who go for treatment either get tired of the addiction or they end up experiencing a dramatic crisis that leads them to seek out treatment for the problem.

It is important that you never protect a loved one from this type of crisis because you may be keeping them from finding the treatment that they need for their addiction problem.

Hi all, LST i think its very easy to blame everything an addict has done to our families on the addiction. with my dh's drinking came alot of insecurity/accusations about my fidelity, bad language/ aggression against furniture, windows doors etc (thankfully not people)as well as ALOT of gambling. i think its convenient for him to say i was drunk when i did all of these things - and his favourite is everyone makes mistakes - i cant change the past.

i feel like theres a brick wall between us which will only come down when i believe hes genuinely sorry for all the pain hes caused.

yesterday he was great - helped about the house, played with ds and then ruined it by switching on the laptop and starting playing poker. i am positive it wasnt for money but it wound me up like mad and made me doubt that he actually thinks his behaviour was that bad! if he will play poker in my home for "fun" whats to stop him doing it at work for real money.

i guess there is just a underlying mistrust that has come from months of discovering poker debt and empty vodka bottles. i wonder whether that will pass and if it doesnt how do you continue like that?

hi secretsquirel - lovely to see you on this thread. i am sorry you are still waiting for your dh to hit rock bottom. maybe you stopping being there for him will be just that. (although only you can decide this).

when my dh took the very bad overdose he begged me to let him come home and i did not let him. dont get me wrong there was alot more drinking after`and it gave him the perfect "justification" for the binges that followed but i do think that in the end it was knowing his family had gone that made him stop. (for now at least) i think he knows if he starts again i wont hesitate to show him the door again. but as you can tell from my post we still have a long way to go!!

i wonder how we all ended up here. there is no way of spotting a potential addict. the boyfriend i had in my early 20s was a cannabis smoker - i ended it because he wouldnt/couldnt lay off it. the stupid thing is i saw my dh as the complete opposite to this boyfriend. he was well educated, hard working, and we were soo happy together.maybe i just have a talent for picking them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

take care, love ML

Hi everyone - hope you're all having a good day

Attila you said
"Sure you want to help the one you love to overcome the addiction but definitely do not enable the addiction any further"

That sounds so sensible and simple but then what form of help or support to an addict other than detachment wouldn't be enabling?

Isn't our difficulty that we want to help our dps/dhs through their addiction but any form of help other than walking away from them is enabling them.

How can you help an addict to overcome adcition without walking away? Is there a way?

ZK - I know what you mean.
The Families Anon website talks about detaching lovingly, being, rather than helping, allowing the addict to take the consequences of their actions.

But that is all very hard to put into practice, unless you separate.

If you help pay rent / mortgate, feed them, wake them for work in the morning rather than letting them sleep off what they've done, use any of your money to pay for them to travel to work etc, if they have spent all their money on drugs/alcohol... I guess you are enabling.

If you live with someone you don't want them to lose their job, even if they would do if you left them to it, but if they do lose it, you suffer too.

I think it's pretty tough to manage. Perhaps the reality is that you cannot live with someone who is active addiction without enabling them to some extent.

I certainly don't have any answers. Dp has been much more pleasant, even helping out a bit round the house, which is making it hard for me to stay resolute about him moving out.

Hi Zookeeper

You write a very interesting post and I think you hit the nail on the head with regards to the many difficulties.

Ultimately though we are only responsible for our own actions, not those of others.

Sometimes a person has to walk away if the spouse/partner has no firm intention of seeking help for their addiction or trying to address why it came to be that they chose that particular path. The only person who can ultimately help the addict is the addict.

Hi Zookeeper

You write a very interesting post and I think you hit the nail on the head with regards to the many difficulties.

Ultimately though we are only responsible for our own actions, not those of others.

Sometimes a person has to walk away if the spouse/partner has no firm intention of seeking help for their addiction or trying to address why it came to be that they chose that particular path. The only person who can ultimately help the addict is the addict.