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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

SUPPORT THREAD FOR THE PARTNERS OF ADDICTS

1000 replies

lemonstartree · 22/10/2007 09:26

having read all the posts on princesshobnob's thraet It struck me (prob because I am one of them) how may women are living with addicts/abusive men (does one cause the other etc etc!)

thought maybe we could do with our own support thread.

I have recently kicked out my cannabis head husband. It has been hard, but not as hard as livig with his dope smoking and verbal abuse (to me) and physical abuse of the children.

So much of what other women wrote reasonated with me; the wanting another chance; the lying; the erratic behaviour; the blaming me (you) for their problems; the financial mess; the wanting sex when high - when tbh you hate them and have never wanted it less; the messing with your head until you think its YOU with the problem.

I am a bit further on than some of you - its 2 months since my marriage ended,
but my H says he has now stopped smoking cannabis, he has found a job and starts this week and he is NOW thnking hes 'done enough' to be given a second (read 50TH) chance.
I am expecting trouble whan I make it clear that some thngs cannot be repaired however Sorry you are that they are broken....

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 11/11/2007 20:06

Apologies for the repeated post; blooming computer crashed!.

secretsquirrel1 · 11/11/2007 22:11

Hi everyone

It has been great to read such interesting perspectives on the behaviours of the addict and how it affects us too. Don't worry, Atilla, certainly haven't taken your posts the wrong way - I have 'taken some and left the rest' which will keep for future reference, I'm sure!!

I know that I am very much hoping that changes in my behaviour will ultimately help him seek sobriety. Because I know that he needs to do it himself, and I know that I am powerless over the illness, I have to know that I have tried. I still love my DH, and I married for better/worse, sickness/health.

I am detatching from the illness, not him (hard as it is). I do understand about enablement - unfortunately, my DH may have lost his job but managed to secure compensation, so until that runs out, there is not a lot I can do about that - though I have secured his share of the mortgage for the next year! I guess that is the reason why there appears to be no change on his side (though he is getting sicker). He sees the consequences of his behaviour as I've stopped covering up.

As yet there hasn't been a major crisis where I have had to take direct action - and indeed I would if his actions/inactions caused such a crisis, especially if it involved DD.

Thankyou all for listening, anyway!

zookeeper · 11/11/2007 22:40

Treating alcoholism as an illness is another thing I have difficulties with. If is is then how can we get angry with them? On bad days I am angry to think that my dp chose drink over me and the dcs; all he had to do was stop drinking;but then I think that he was ill and wish I'd done more.

I find it all so confusing and overwhelming really.

Sorry to ramble but these are the thoughts that go around in my head - should I have stuck it out and tried again to make him change - I accept that only the addict can do it but surely a bit of help and support wouldn't go amiss or should I have given up on him bevcause he continually chose to drink in spite of the numerous ultimatums I gave him.

I feel as though I'm never going to be happy again

secretsquirrel1 · 12/11/2007 01:41

ZK, big hugs for you - I wish, as I'm sure we all do, that we could make it better for all of us; so that we too could have what passes for a 'normal marriage/relationship' where the only grief was about who forgot to put out the rubbish, and who used the last of the milk!! Don't mean to sound trite, but YKWIM.

LST has made a bold start by starting this thread for us so we can get our thoughts down and glean from everyone else how they are managing to cope with the madness.

ZK, your partner IS ill, he can't stop unless HE wants to seek sobriety. He didn't choose to drink over you and the DC's - as someone posted earlier, some people just cannot handle it responsibly, and that could be due to genetics/family influences/low self esteem etc.

The detatching from the illness is the hardest part of all, because I find that the anger/bitterness/rage spills over into how I am with the part of DH that isn't sick. I try not to let it, but just a look is enough to convey those feelings and then Bang - that look is enough to make him feel even worse than he does already then he drinks more because then he feels so worthless.

I then re-read what Attila says and when I am on 'the pity pot' I do think, hang on, I didn't sign up for this crap. It can start eroding my feelings if I dwell on the unfairness/nastiness/verbal abuse/bad behaviour.

The fact that he is ill doesn't 'get him out of jail' - he is in blackout and has no recollection of the misery, which is what I try to cling on to....for now!

I'm not after pity, I just need to sound off too. I cope as best as I can, and it is easier with help from you guys, thankyou!

ginnedupumpkin · 12/11/2007 15:00

ZK you really hit the nail on the head there. By staying with them we are 'enabling' them, so common sense dictates that if we leave them / throw them out the enabling will stop, they will hit rock bottom and face up to themselves and so on.
The reality of it is so much harder, how long will it take till they hit rock bottom? Will that definitely make them stop? How long till you can trust them again? What if they still go back to it again once they've given it up? What affect will this have on their loved ones in the meantime, I could go on all day.
Dp has been very good all weekend, but I can't ever relax. I worry whenever he goes out the door or the phone rings, I constantly check the bin for cans/bottles, cross examine him about every part of his day when we're not together. Its no way to carry on, but I love him so I do it.

ginnedupumpkin · 12/11/2007 15:03

ZK - I really think you couldn't have done any more than you did for your dh. He is ill its true but that doesn't excuse anything. You reached your 'rock bottom' and as far as I can tell you had no choice, but to end it, for your own sanity if nothing else.

zookeeper · 12/11/2007 17:02

thank you all - I keep meaning to write fuller messages to include you all as I can relate so much to parts of what you all say!

I'm off to Relate tonight - I've emailed exdp to tell him of the time and place but he hasn't responded so I'll most likely be there alone.In some ways that's best as I feel I need to try to make sense of my own confusion about the end of our relationship. If he turned up and was contrite and open to discussing chamge as he was a couple of yers ago when we last went I am sure I would find it dificult not to hold onto him and never let go.

But the trust would never come back and I couldn't ever again live with the disappointment of smelling drink on his breath, finding the empty tin hidden, nor do I want to return to wondering if he really is just popping to the shops to buy milk rather than to get a quick top-up of lager. Before we had the dcs I used to follow him to the shops to check what he was buying. Often I would see him with a can and he would still deny it. I really would think I was going mad.

I have marked the spirit bottles, hidden the wine, looked for the empties. I have convinced myself that a bottle of wine only contains three glasses becasue I would have one glass, the bottle would be empty and DP would insist that he had only had two. I used to hate the way he would gulp down wine hungrily. I have congratulated him omn dry periods andd screamed and aged at him when i have found him drinking. I just can't do it any more. I wish I could in some ways as I miss him.

He still blames me for ending it - even now I think he has no idea of the real harm his drinking and lying did.

I'm free of it - but why do I feel so low?

Sorry to go on - how is everyone today? Please keep posting

zookeeper · 12/11/2007 17:03

thank you all - I keep meaning to write fuller messages to include you all as I can relate so much to parts of what you all say!

I'm off to Relate tonight - I've emailed exdp to tell him of the time and place but he hasn't responded so I'll most likely be there alone.In some ways that's best as I feel I need to try to make sense of my own confusion about the end of our relationship. If he turned up and was contrite and open to discussing chamge as he was a couple of yers ago when we last went I am sure I would find it dificult not to hold onto him and never let go.

But the trust would never come back and I couldn't ever again live with the disappointment of smelling drink on his breath, finding the empty tin hidden, nor do I want to return to wondering if he really is just popping to the shops to buy milk rather than to get a quick top-up of lager. Before we had the dcs I used to follow him to the shops to check what he was buying. Often I would see him with a can and he would still deny it. I really would think I was going mad.

I have marked the spirit bottles, hidden the wine, looked for the empties. I have convinced myself that a bottle of wine only contains three glasses becasue I would have one glass, the bottle would be empty and DP would insist that he had only had two. I used to hate the way he would gulp down wine hungrily. I have congratulated him omn dry periods andd screamed and aged at him when i have found him drinking. I just can't do it any more. I wish I could in some ways as I miss him.

He still blames me for ending it - even now I think he has no idea of the real harm his drinking and lying did.

I'm free of it - but why do I feel so low?

Sorry to go on - how is everyone today? Please keep posting

AttilaTheMeerkat · 12/11/2007 17:03

Hi GUP

Re your comments:-
"ZK you really hit the nail on the head there. By staying with them we are 'enabling' them, so common sense dictates that if we leave them / throw them out the enabling will stop, they will hit rock bottom and face up to themselves and so on".

Exactly. Without you they haven't got you as their crutch. An addict would need then to start dealing with the consequences his actions cause. It bears repeating - there is a fine line between supporting and enabling.

"The reality of it is so much harder, how long will it take till they hit rock bottom?"

Hmmm. How long is a piece of string? You can wait many years to find out. What would this do to you in the meantime. He will likely drag you all down with him.

"Will that definitely make them stop? How long till you can trust them again? What if they still go back to it again once they've given it up? What affect will this have on their loved ones in the meantime, I could go on all day".

As I have written before ad nauseum alcoholics are some of the most selfish people in the entire world. Hard as it is to take, their primary relationship is with drink. Everything, absolutely everything else comes a dim second.

Again there are no guarantees that many such people can or want to stop. Some alcoholics do manage to address their addiction, many though do not or ever do. Ultimately you can only help your good self.

"Dp has been very good all weekend, but I can't ever relax. I worry whenever he goes out the door or the phone rings, I constantly check the bin for cans/bottles, cross examine him about every part of his day when we're not together. Its no way to carry on, but I love him so I do it".

You're right - that's no way to live at all and I feel for your children as well as you having to live like this. What are you and he teaching them about relationships?. The "I love him so I do it" comment breaks my heart to be honest with you, you are worth so much more than that and so are your children.

You love him of that I have no doubt but he is not showing you the same consideration is he?. He knows you'll always be around for him to use because he knows you'll never give him the heave ho for good. You may also be subconsciously acting out relationship patterns you saw in your own childhood.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 12/11/2007 17:09

Hi Zookeeper

Good luck with Relate tonight; go on your own if you have to.

You may feel low because you may feel like you've failed. You may be thinking how did my judgment let me down?. You have not failed, he took your relationship and tossed it aside.

He made a conscious choice - no-one forced a glass into his hand and you did not drive him to this. It appears he has long standing drink problems which may have begun long before you came into his life. He still blames you for ending it - he is so mired in denial and thus blames everyone but his own self.

Would suggest you talk to Al-anon as well if you have not done so already.

(((((Zookeeper)))))

Good luck

Attila

mickeylou · 12/11/2007 19:08

Thinking of you all. ive had a good day today - work was a pain but nice to have normal everyday complaint for a change!! xx

ginnedupumpkin · 12/11/2007 21:33

Thanks Attilla. Straight and to the point as usual . What you say makes perfect sense and if we all listened to our heads instead of our hearts we'd know exactly what to do.
ZK - I am in that place you described (especially relating to the wine situation!) but you have taken that step that I'm too afraid to take and I have such admiration for you. Good luck at relate - I hope it helps you find some peace of mind.
Tomorrow is dp's doctors appointment and I've just printed out his 2 week diary for him. It makes interesting reading!! I don't know what the doctor will say, or whether he will even listen. I wish I could have a word with the doctor and tell him what to say!!! I hope to God that the doctor takes it seriously and tells him he has got a problem.
Glad you had a good day Mickeylou. I did too - well uneventful anyway, which in my life equals good
Hope everyone else is doing OK too.

lemonstartree · 12/11/2007 22:18

hi guys...

((((((zk)))))) you sound low, but you know that you could not have changed anything, and that the courage to leave was the greatest gift you could have given your dc's

my h is banging on about another chance. Hes like a batttering ram , on and on and on... eventually I said to him tonight that 'if he would do anything at all for me' then could he please respect MY feelings and accept that now, at this moment I do not want him back. its still all about him - Im so miserable, I love you, I miss the boys etc etc.

As if somehow I could just forget everything. Forget the lying and abuse and endless paranoia... I have said to him that I have no respect for him at all......but still he ges on abut another chance....

bloody men. bloody addiction. bloody hell

sorry not to be more suppportive but feel like sh*t myself right now.....

OP posts:
mickeylou · 13/11/2007 07:43

morning zookeeper, i hope that today is a better day for you and that going to relate helped some.you have made the right decision for you and your family - i am sure.

gup - good luck with the doctors appointment. why dont you call the doctors and speak to them before the appointment. i went in to speak to my dh's gp before he did - she obviously couldnt discuss my dh with me - but i told her it from my persepective - that way she knew there was a major problem even if he downplayed it all.

i will say that dh's gp has been great. she has been extremely supportive of him, seeing him 3 times a week, now 2. this has been really good as he wont use the local alcohol and drug service as he knows people who work there and as he has a professional job he doesnt want the whole town knowing about his problem.

his gp hasnt been judgmental when he has admitted to drinking again and i guess thats helped him be completely honest with her - even when he was lying to everybody else. she has advocated getting sober out in the real world and wasnt suprised that the detoxes in hospital didnt work.

i dont know what your dh's doctor is like but if they arent helpful today its probably worth going to see someone else. we had an incident with another gp who saw dh when his own was on holiday. he changed his whole prescription (including meds for epilepsy which hes been on for years) and really wonud him up as he took the "its not an illness and you should not have been drinking in the first place" sledghammer approach - needless to say this did not help and dh was drunk and incapable by tea time.

anyway, i hope that your gp is a goodun!!!
let us know how it goes.

lst - it does still sound like its all me me me with him. until its kids kids kids you are doing the right thing.

take care all. ML xx

AttilaTheMeerkat · 13/11/2007 09:12

Hi Mickeylou,

Re your comment:-

"he wont use the local alcohol and drug service as he knows people who work there and as he has a professional job he doesnt want the whole town knowing about his problem".

Are you okay with him not accessing such services due to those reasons?. I wonder what his GP's response to the above was if he has indeed told her?.

They are his excuses not to use such a service even though they could possibly help him further. The details of people who use such services are kept confidential. If he's that worried why can't he use another service in a nearby town?.

zookeeper · 13/11/2007 09:28

Morning everyone

I'm ok today thanks.

Relate was helpful - I went in feeling alright and then the minute the counsellor opend her mouth I wept and wailed and basically ranted for over an hour. She will probably need counselling now!

One of my main frustrations is that dp who is in complete denial about his drinking has shown his anger by refusing to communicate with me at all - if I phone him he hangs up, if I email him he ignores me , but he does send me tha odd message telling me I am selfish for ending the relationship, usually with some abuse attached. He has seen the dcs very very sporadically - three times in four months and before he went he was a very involved dad, so it has come as a complete shock to me. and yet I hear from his family that he is heartbroken and wants to come home which, even though he has been a complete pig and as latched himself onto another woman (who seems to live in pubs) upsets me.

Talking to the counsellor made me see things with a bit of perspective. She made me think that for the moment at least I should leave well alone and wait for him to approach me about the children and that as he is drinking still I am not dealing with a logical person.

We all know addicts are the most selfish people out there!

I don't feel brave for having ended it - I simply had reached my rock bottom with him.
Actually its probably been very good that he has been so awful since he left because it has made it easier for me to hold onto my aim, which is to create a carefree, happy home without the shame, suspicion, arguements and friction that addiction brings. I want to be able to bring friends home without wondering if I'll find him drunk or worse for wear and I want that for the dcs too.

I admire you GUP for trying to support your dh. I can recognise so much of my own behaviour in yours. I always had dp back before becasue he would be nice and apologise but this time when that didn't work he became nasty which is why I am still alone - I would probably have caved in had he been kind . I hope that your dh stops for good or that if you are going to reach your rock bottom, you do it soon. I think a letter to the doctor telling her what's going on would help.

Lst, keep going. I tend to get really down when I am tired and you must be so tired most of the time. It must be so hard to resist taking him back, especially if he is being his old self. If you thinkk thatif you took dp back the whole miserable cycle of addiction would start up again then don't do it. If you can't bear the thought of sepaerating, then it might be an idea to think in terms of months, so that you could think that if he is still the same by , say, February, you will think again about reconciling. By that time you will have a bit of distance and perspective and be able to think more clearly. I wouldn't tell him that though!

Secretsquirrel, I loved your "I didn't sign up for this crap" comment. That makes such sense and is my new mantra.

Mickeylou - my exdp was a professional and lost a few jobs over the years. His drinking was raised each time bt I always made excuses for him ("what's wrong with having a drink at lunchtime?") I wonder how many people already know. I have started saying to anyone who asks that I couldn't live with his drinking and nobody is surprised. It's liberating to lose the secrecy. It's difficult to know when support turns into enabling someone to carry on drinking. I hope your dp can do it, I really do. You sound much stronger than me.

notso farnow - are you still seperated form your ex? YOu must be further down the line than me. How are you feeling? Are you glad you separated? Can you inspire us?

Princesshobnob what are you up to?

Attila, are you a counsellor? You manage to say things that are quite hard to hear becasue they are so true but it's very helpful to read your comments.

princesshobnob · 13/11/2007 13:46

Hello everyone. My computer is going at the sepeed of a 90 year old snail today, v frustrating.

ZK - I'm glad you found Relate helpful, it must have been good just to let it all pour out to someone supportive.

LST - your h does sound like he's still seeing things from his perspective, but you sound like you're being strong - it must be hard when he keeps on at you though. He's not respecting how you feel at the moment, just trying to wear you down by the sound of it.

I went to the family support group at the local centre. They've just finished a 10 week long programmme, so that's good timing -also I'm the only 1 so far on the nexr 10 week lot, so I got to speak to the counsellor 1 to 1 for about 1.5hrs. She was very supportive, and I found it helpful, almost like I'd shifted a bit of the burden.

She suggested that if I want him to move out, just to say calmly "I'd like you to leave on Saturday, what are you doing towards that happening" and whatever he says, not to get into any discussion with him, just keep saying the same thing all the time. She said it will be difficult for him to deal with it if I change my behaviour and response.

It's difficukt, because he's going through a good period, he's a normal person, so it's hard to stay resolute. She pointed out to me that even if he was to get clean next week, there would still be all the damage to our relationship to repair.

I got quite upset because she pointed out that he sounds a bit desperate, that I am probably his rock, and that his life could get a lot worse if we separate... she also said that that is not my responsibility. But it is hard for me to take a step that is good for me, but potentially so bad for him, even though LOGICALLY I know that it is his reponsibility / his choice etc.

Sorry for the long ramble. Hoe you're all doing OK today

mickeylou · 13/11/2007 14:24

hello, i'm back again. i understand that you shouldnt enable an alcoholic but at the same time i do think there is a point where you have to do some enabling - because not to is to shoot yourself and the family as a whole in the foot.

we do live in a very small town and both have professional jobs. i agree that his family and i have covered up for him and kept his business going through the bad times when the correct thing to do was probably to shut up shop, tell everyone what was wrong and sell the whole lot.

Rightly or wrongly we wanted him to have a business to come back to when or if he got better.

i also didnt want it all becoming public knowledge as it may affect my reputation/ career - and with that my ability to provide for ds. perhaps thats why i tell you lot everything as i cant really tell anyone around me!!

i met up with dh at lunchtime. he is doing well; hes taking pride in his business and really keeping it together -looking at him now i am glad we didnt just shut up shop.

attila - i actually explained to the GP our reasons for avoiding this service - which are really that an old friend works there as a counsellor. my dh doesnt want this person to know about his problem and to be honest i agree with him - this person was his best friend in his teens and early twenties and has over the years been the person he would go out drinking most with.even though he has told him he no longer drinks (for other medical reasons) - the invitations to go out on the pi** are still coming thick and fast. i completely understand why dh doesnt want him to know. if he did he would tell him as a friend.(he has confided in another male friend and this seems to help)

i believe the gp took the view that as long as dh is going to AA - which he is regularly - and seeing her often then it was ok not to use the service. he was also seeing a private counsellor although stopped as he said he was getting more from AA.

zookeeper - when i first got dh to leave he was exactly as you describe yours to be - either ignoring me and the existence of ds completely or when he did see me he was nasty and telling me everything was my fault. he was still drinking which i assume your dh is and that was my fault too as he had no reason to stay sober if he wasnt living at home. it was only when he stopped drinking that he started being a reasonable human being again.

until he gets sober and stays that way he will continue to be horrible to you and i agree you should cut all ties (i know its far easier said than done and i know i havent always followed my own advice!!!)

i hope you are ok and home is a quieter, happier place without him. you are probably feeling lonely but i guess thats preferable to angry and upset. lots of love, ML xxx

zookeeper · 13/11/2007 14:29

Hi Princesshobnob

I think you will feel so much better when he goes - I did - and do overall in spite of my down days. do you think he will go?Has he got somewhere to go?

zookeeper · 13/11/2007 14:34

thanks ml I hope you didn't think my earlier post was patronising or judgemental; I was trying to empathise and can understand why you are suporting your dh. He sounds as though he's doing brilliantly.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 13/11/2007 14:50

Hi ML,

Re your comment:-

"But at the same time i do think there is a point where you have to do some enabling - because not to is to shoot yourself and the family as a whole in the foot".

My response to the above is that you are shooting your own self in the foot by enabling him anyway. You cannot rescue or save him from his demons; he has to want to do this for his own self, no-one else can do this for him. Past actions by people around him have enabled him to carry on because he's never been made to fully see the consequences of his actions. Its all been shielded from him. Am glad the business is still going but you cannot keep the consequences of his problem from him, you cannot and should not keep rescuing and or enabling. What happens the next time he hits difficulties, what do you do then?.

An enabler can become more entrenched in the problem. The addict sees this, this turns into more chaos in the home which gives the addict a perfect excuse to just keep using.

I can see why he does not want to access the service in his locality but there is nothing to stop him using these services in another location. He could do this as well as attend AA meetings.

Do you have firm knowledge that he is attending AA meetings regularly?. I sincerely hope his GP is carefully watching his progress because these people are very good at both manipulation of others and denial (they often underestimate both the amount they drink and their problem itself).

You need support for your own self; I would suggest you talk to Al-anon if you have not done so already. They're very good from all accounts.

Your main priority should be your good self and any children you have. You are ultimately not responsible for him, he is responsible for his own actions.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 13/11/2007 14:59

Hi Zookeeper,

(((((zookeeper))))).

Hope the Relate session was somehow cathartic for you. You will hopefully gain more emotional strength over time. I have faith in you!!!.

You cannot reason with an alcoholic; they are truly the most selfish people. I note still although he professes to be miserable he is still at heart all selfishness i.e me, me, me. His primary relationship is still with drink, not unfortunately surprised to see that he now has a female drinking companion.

You can make a good life for you and your children without him in it, I know you can do it.

No, am not a counsellor; just the average joe.

Attila

mickeylou · 13/11/2007 15:36

thanks attila for your advice - as far as i know he is going to AA as he gets a lift from his dad and a lift back by another member. the meeting he goes to is out of town. he sees the gp every monday and friday morning. wednesdays have been dropped as she thinks he is doing better. i am impressed by the GP and dont think she is fooled by his manipulation/lying as i have been in the past.

when he starts drinking he cant stop and what starts with sarcasm descends into nastiness and temper. i am not seeing any of that at the moment so i do think he is vodka free for now atleast. i hope for his sake it continues.

i do love my husband and am seriously considering letting him come home. however it may be very cold of me to say this - i wont hesitate to kick him out if he takes another drink. i deserve and more importantly my son deserves better.

have just re read my post and i sound very serious!!!!!! i guess i just mean that if he gets one more chance it will be exactly that and if he messes up it will be time for me and ds to move on for good.

ginnedupumpkin · 13/11/2007 16:37

Hi all.

What do you think of this?

Doctor looked at list and said "I can see you are drinking heavily at times, but you aren't drinking heavily everyday. Its clear from this you will never be a "x units per week man" but there is definitely a problem here. Go away and keep the diary going for a month and come back to me and we can prescribe some tablets to stop your craving" ... or that's the jist of it anyway.
Apparently dp made a joke and the doctor gave him a bollocking saying this isn't a laughing matter and to go away if he was wasting his time, so dp apologised and that was that.
What's the point of keeping another bloody diary? Surely its giving dp the green card to carry on.
Am I being too impatient, I feel like the doctor isn't taking this seriously enough.
Dp says he will still keep the next appointment and see this through which is good I suppose, but I feel quite let down by the whole system today.
It's crap.

ginnedupumpkin · 13/11/2007 16:40

Glad the relate went well ZK. I think I might look into the counselling again. Its so blooming expensive though and I've already used up my 6 free NHS sessions.
Mickeylou - sounds like your dh is really making the effort. If you have him back please stick to your word and make it one strike and he's out, or all this hard work will have been for nothing.
Hark at me doling out advice - I should listen to myself!!!

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