DH extreme stress - acting like he’s drunk.

[Levithecat]

I’m hoping someone can bring some perspective or insight.

DH was an alcoholic - secret drinker - I found out just over a year ago and it was awful. We nearly broke up. His excessive drinking started when our first child was born 7 years ago. He stopped when I found out and insists he hasn’t drunk since.

However, he occasionally (varies from twice a week to twice a month) has ‘episodes’ where he is stumbling, incoherent, not there. Can’t be trusted with the kids, argues with me. Basically drunk behaviour. He suffers from anxiety and stress (was off work for six months this year) and his GP and counsellor have decided that it’s some kind of dissociative state.

I am really struggling - part of me feels, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it’s a fucking duck. However, we have had countless discussions, including me accusing him outright, and he insists it’s not alcohol (or anything else). He has been working hard on his mental health and is getting an assessment for dyslexia as I think this is a major factor in his anxiety, but clearly something else needs to happen. It’s got to the point that I’m considering leaving.

I’d love to know if anyone else has experienced anything like this? And if so, was it / how was it resolved?

I agree with the majority the most likely cause is alcohol.

If the GP thinks your DH is developing a dissociative disorder then he should refer to a psychiatrist for a full assessment.

GP’s have very little mental health training and personally I wouldn’t trust one with any mental health diagnosis.

The first thing a specialist would do is rule out another cause for these states - eg medications, drugs, alcohol, head injury etc. Until that’s done speculation about his mental start is pointless.

@oakleaffy

Substance abusers can and do change. It can take years, but if one really is genuinely sick of it...Change is always possible. NA/AA help many, but others give up under own steam.

It must be especially hard for ex alcoholics over Christmas/New Year.

Christmas hard? No my friend! Im so excited about my Christmas presents for the kids all being wrapped up already. Rather than me drunkenly wrapping them up Xmas eve. Ripping all the paper and not remembering what I've wrapped. I'm so excited to drink in their excitement and reactions Xmas morning whilst fully present. Rather than dragging myself out of bed wishing they'd go away so I could sleep. Ignoring them excitedly asking me to play with their toys. Sneaking off to the bathroom to neck wine. I can skinny dip in my hot tub on boxing day at 7am before everyone gets up enjoying the crispy cold morning and having bags of energy for the rest of the day! So I find Xmas hard? Hell no baby!!!

No worries at all, @Savourysenorita! I would say good luck but you're doing so well I imagine you don't need it

And just as a little sidenote to anyone else who is reading this thread that's wrestling with an addiction or worried about accessing help, there is a point to it all. You don't have to be in pain forever. Reach out and keep pushing for the help you need, because it will all be worth it in the end and you will look back and realise your strength. Blessings to all who are recovering or recovered.

state not start ^

I'm sorry OP but I'd lay a year's salary on him still drinking.

I went through this with my ex.

I don't want to be unkind, because I've been through this, but you do seem worryingly naïve about this. There's no such thing as an "ex alcoholic". And it beggars belief that he can have just stopped.

I wouldn't even bother with the breathalysers. You have to remove your children from this scenario. If he has genuinely stopped drinking the onus is on him to persuade you.

When you say he ‘stopped’ drinking - did he do AA or any other programme? It’s very hard to stop dead without help.

@Eckhart

If he told you he though you were drunk, and presented you with a breathalyser, what would you do?

If my (recovering) alcoholic brother demanded I take a breathalyzer test because he thought I was drunk, I'd happily comply. Why wouldn't I? I can control my drinking, therefore I have no need to hide when I've had a drink.

In fact, DH and I have breathalyzed each other a couple of times just to test what our legal limit was. I'm a lightweight!

Not read all the responses. Noticed that OP stopped replying at page 3 so possibly a waste of time, but hey ho!

Firstly, there is no such thing as an ex-alcoholic. As a child of alcoholics & someone who has given up drinking myself because I know what a slippery slope it is, I can tell you're deluding yourself, just like DM did until her own drinking escalated.

My dad was a pathological liar. He'd swear he hadn't been drinking when it was obvious. It was a horrible situation to grow up in & has ruined the lives of my siblings & myself. Please put your DC first & leave. He doesn't see an issue or want to change. Its hard enough when someone does want to change, but impossible when they don't.

OP please be wary of the (well meaning I'm sure) "internet clinical" advice on here. I work in alcohol treatment. There is no absolute clinical test to say if someone is drinking or not unless they happen to be breathalysed when they have alcohol active in their system. People can be drinking large quantities daily and have normal liver blood tests for example.

I agree with pp who suggested that these type of symptoms are concerning and should be investigated including a breathalyser during an episode - this may be tricky to organise as mainstream NHS services do not routinely use breathalysers. A&E can test for blood alcohol levels but he would require to be acutely unwell enough to be seen at A&E (and blood alcohol levels would fall during a long waiting room delay).

If it was me I'd buy a breathalyser and use it during the next episode but I'd also be aware as pp that other sedative drugs could also cause same symptoms.

Lastly, my respect to all those on the thread sharing their own experiences with alcohol issues and maintaining abstinence.

DH has a friend in a very similar situation to your DH. Friend phoned him and confessed. According to him he'd been having a few too many beers over lockdown of an evening but was now sober.
He was slurring as he said all this. Then DH found out he'd been drinking vodka at work.
Alcoholics lie.

Do you know what? I don't think it matters whether he is drunk, or 'acting' drunk really does it? You know he has issues with alcohol, and now he insists he isn't drinking but appears drunk. So either he is lying, or he has serious mental health issues to behave like that. Ask yourself if you really want to live like that. Worried every day, not trusting him with the children, not sure if he's being truthful, being his carer because he is 'ill'.

FWIW my money is on him drinking, and/or using drugs. The denial is incredibly strong with alcoholics and drug users as they are often ashamed of themselves. He's getting a lot of attention from you and medical professionals by claiming this behaviour is not because he's drunk. That he is welcoming the attention for such odd behaviour, whether he is lying or it's real, suggests serious mental health issues, possibly depression.

I have lived with an alcoholic drug user, I know all the tricks. I'm with you on 'if it walks like a duck...' Seriously though, get out before it gets worse. He has the support of professionals. You need to think of yourself and DC in all this. It will get worse. You cannot fix him and at the moment he doesn't want to be fixed anyway.

I’ve suffered from anxiety and stress and to be honest to a certain extent it can feel like you’re drunk! I struggled to remember what people had told me 5 minutes before, I got confused, couldn’t focus, had a terrible temper and put things in weird places where they didn’t belong (think toothpaste in the fridge type of thing). I’m not saying he’s not drinking, I’m just saying that the body and brain can react in very strange ways when you’re under severe and or long term stress.
This was years ago for me and my cognitive skills are still not completely back to what they once were.

I don’t think most ( if any ) posters are saying addicts never change and there’s no point in seeking help.

I think most posters are saying they find it implausible that

1. The Ops husband stopped drinking overnight the day she first found out
2. That his account of how much he drank and how long he had been drinking for was accurate
3. That her husband was then and therefore is now 100% truthful and everything he says is reliable
4. That the most likely explanation of these behaviours is a serious mental illness diagnosed by a GP who has offered no treatment or referral to a specialist.

I think posters are also concerned that if it’s NOT substance misuse, it could be other things which don’t seem to have been investigated.

None of this is the same as “ there’s no hope for someone with addictions “. Clearly there is but it’s tough, requires a lot of hard work, determination and support and is in some some senses the work of a lifetime, not something that happens overnight.

Much respect to those who have shared their stories here. It’s hard to tackle your own addictions and it’s a hell of a lot harder to live with an alcoholic.

@C0NNIE

I’m confused.

So for 6 years he hid his drinking from you - he lied to you and stole your family money, he opted out of his responsibilities as a father and husband in favour of alcohol.

So he’s an expert at lies and deception.

You say he was an alcoholic, so dependent mentally and probably physically, yet he stopped overnight as soon as you found out.

Surely you know that doesn't happen ?

But now you regularly see the signs that he’s drunk. Yet you know he’s not drinking because you don't think he’s a liar. The man who lied to you for 7 years. The alcoholic who stopped overnight with no ill effects.

I’m sorry but you are in complete denial if you think you can trust a word that comes out his mouth. Addicts lie. They lie all the time. They will say anything to get around you and to their drug of choice.

As he has seen his GP, she will have ruled out any undiagnosed medical a conditions that could be causing this, such as diabetes. So yes it may indeed be one of the many psychiatric conditions that are linked with alcoholism.

Or he might just be drunk. If he’s drinking less now then his tolerance will be reduced.

Have you been to al Anon ? I think you’d find it helpful.

This

Thank you to everyone who has replied - I am reading and mulling every point over.

To answer a few questions,
He seemed relieved when I found out about his drinking in 2019. He said he’d been working with his counsellor on stopping. I took the approach of - if you want to drink then drink, just don’t hide it. Not that I wanted him to drink, but the deception, secrecy etc were the biggest issues, and no alcoholic will stop just because someone else wants them to. He has always had a habit of hiding anything that might upset others - had a difficult childhood where he had to be good/no bother.

The episodes come at the end of a busy day or week, where he’s been rushing around. We have kids, jobs etc so I don’t know where he is all the time. We are open with our phones and stuff like that though.

I’m not sure how long the episodes last - when I notice he isn’t right I extricate myself/the children or ask him to go away. Usually happens around kids bedtime so easy to separate. Then I tend to avoid him for the evening. However, I have seen it pass within 30mins.

No, I haven’t been on a call with his counsellor or GP. I could easily eavesdrop but I haven’t.

We’ve discussed today that he needs to get a new GP appointment requesting investigation. His counsellor is consulting a clinical psych. I’m in two minds about a breathalyser - it won’t necessarily answer my worries and may make him more secretive. I’m also going to seek some counselling again.

I understand those giving quite hard replies, especially when they’ve lived with addicts. I’m not yet convinced he is doing something (whether or not you think I’m mad - I need time to process) and I have seen people behave in very odd ways for reasons other than intoxication. I think his mental health is precarious at the moment, and unless he focuses on his well-being all the time he quickly slips. He’s not built a good or resilient foundation yet.

Thanks to people for sharing stories/advice and very best wishes to those who are managing their abstinence or have lived with addicts.

So, you only have his word for it that the gp says it's dissociative episodes?

Id also ask him to take a breathaliser. Explain that you need proof because pf his past lies but once it shows there no alcohol in his system you will be behind him 100%.

If he takes it you have your answer.

If he refuses then you know he has been drinking. He may then turn this on you being untrusting but you can say "well prove me wrong."

I'm afraid I think he is lying to you ☹ my mum is alcoholic and drinks in the middle of the night when no one else can see her. You can tell (and smell) that she is hungover the next day, but she downright denies it.

A GP should not be diagnosing dissociative episodes until all other possibilities are rules out via medical investigations.

We’ve discussed today that he needs to get a new GP appointment requesting investigation. His counsellor is consulting a clinical psych. I’m in two minds about a breathalyser - it won’t necessarily answer my worries and may make him more secretive. I’m also going to seek some counselling again

You wouldn't be worried about him becoming more secretive if you didn't already know, in your heart of hearts, that he is drinking and hiding it from you.

You don't want to breathalyse him. You don't want to eavesdrop on calls. You are respecting his privacy, but frankly he used your respect to hide years of alcoholism from you. You are also, perhaps, protecting yourself. Which is understandable but not safe for you or your children. It happens in other medical conditions too. My grandfather was almost completely out of touch with reality before my grandmother accepted his diagnosis of.dementia. A family friend, tragically, had a huge black wound on her breast that she and her husband had been strategixally

Ooh, posted too soon, she and her husband had been strategically 'treating' with an antiseptic lotion before her child saw it and took them straight to A&E, the woman did not live long after. It's what happens to slim women who are 'shocked' to have a baby arrive. Denial is really powerful.

Are you seeing your own counsellor? You need support too.

"Usually happens around kids bedtime"

The fact that it happens at a very similar time of day is unusual.

Thing is OP, you have children. You don’t really have the option of hoping this isn’t alcohol, hoping he isn’t still deceiving you, trying to convince yourself that this is a mental state that will pass with help and support.
You really do need to buy a breathalyser and test him when he is acting drunk, because if it is negative, then he needs to go straight to A and E.
The chances of this being a mental issue rather than a physical one are not high, given the information. The most likely thing by far is alcohol. Alcoholics lie so well and so frequently that they look believable, lying is what they do. Lying and deception is what he spent seven years doing.
You sound intensely focused on him, but you should be putting this energy and focus into your children. Test him. Then face the truth, whatever it is, for the sake of your children. Take him straight to casualty if it is negative.

I’m in two minds about a breathalyser - it won’t necessarily answer my worries and may make him more secretive

His knowledge of you having a breathalyser won't change anything at all unless he's drinking. If he becomes more secretive, you'll see a change, won't you? He'll avoid you more, or something. So, it will answer your worries, but perhaps not by actually breathalysing him.

It’s a chicken and egg situation.

I suspect his poor MH stress and anxiety is related to the physical and emotional toll of at least 7 years of secret drinking.

Also your recent update has clarified some details of the situation which maybe you sub consciously left vague in your earlier posts.

I'm sorry I haven't read the thread OP but I completely get what you're going through as DH is the same. In fact I've been through almost identical situation lately. He is drunk. My DH lies. He makes up shit to get out of telling the truth when I outright ask him if he has had a drink. He is very convincing. But things never add up. So I breathalised him. And he was well over the limit. Every time. I made him call the GP on Monday and sort out counselling. I have told him I will breathalise him randomly and also before he goes out in the car. Because he is a liar. I don't know how long he has been a liar. I suspect the entire 17 years I've known him.