Calling out this man for his shitty behaviour is a terrible idea isn't it.

[VotNow]

Casual relationship. We agreed to be FWB. This was preceded by a couple of months heavy flirting during which he gave every impression of being very attracted to me. He even told someone else he fancied me (who then told me.) All the body language, the catching him watching me when he thought I wasn't looking, the finding excuses to be around me and stand close to me, the playful flirty joking around.

He said he only wanted sex from the start. Fine. I wanted sex with him too. But he was a dreadful FWB. The first time we hooked up he basically told me it was time for me to go after we were finished. I put my foot down and told him I expected to be treated with respect and kindness, even in a casual relationship, and he seemed to get a little better. The second time we got together he made me food and we spent more time talking etc. I was happy enough with that. But he reverted back to being disrespectful and rude again. Ignoring messages when it suited him. Texting at 11.45pm at night (which to be fair, I ignored because I'm not going round at that time.)

The last time we got together was after I had backed off a fair bit. We bumped into eachother and one thing led to another. I still fancied him a lot. But this time he came really quickly (unlike him) and then basically announced - like the first time we got together - that he was done and it was time for me to go now.

We talked and I made it clear that this was unnacceptable to me. That I had been looking forward to some hot sex with someone who would be my friend. I told him that although I was happy with casual and knew we would not be serious, that I thought we had real chemistry. He shook his head and just said we should call it a day. Basically said that I had only been a willing vagina rather than someone he felt an actual connection with.

Well of course I agree that if it's going to be like this then we should call it a day. But I remember back to when we were flirting and how he couldn't do enough for me - getting me drinks and making me coffees at our shared hobby. Always finding excuses to hang around me. The flirting. The staring as I walked past. You don't fake that sort of body language - I now feel so confused. How could I have got it so wrong? It stings and humiliates like buggery.

And I feel furious. With myself for not dumping his arse far sooner, but also with him. I feel he has treated me like shit. The only decent thing he has ever done is end things definitively rather than just ghosting me.

What I want to do is tell him off. Send him a message telling him he's a shit. That decent men are able to treat casual partners decently while maintaining the necessary boundaries. I want to tell him he's immature and that I deserved better.

But this is a terrible idea isn't it. He will probably just tell himself I'm crazy and that I lurve him (I don't.) And considering I haven't contacted him in any way for almost a week since he ended things, if I message now I'm just going to look like I'm still thinking about it (I am but perhaps he does not need to know this.)

How to handle. We're not strangers and are still going to see eachother about.

he made it clear that’s what he wanted

After the first time OP also stated clearly what she wanted:

I put my foot down and told him I expected to be treated with respect and kindness, even in a casual relationship

He chose to ignore that and treat her in a way he knew would violate her boundaries. Why is the OP expected to respect his wants/boundaries but not the vice versa? Very worrying mindset for women to have, according to you if I clearly tell a man not to treat me a specific way and he does it anyway, that's my fault?

You don't fake that sort of body language - I now feel so confused. How could I have got it so wrong? It stings and humiliates like buggery.

Well now you know that they DO fake that kind of body language so that's a good bit of info for the future!

Don't contact him. You don't need to - you got the last word. You made your point, he didn't really accept it and was a bit sulky child about it - I don't want to continue - then by the time you were back at yours, he'd clearly had time to think and thought 'Hey, I'm cutting off my nose ot spite my face here' - so tried the backtrack question hoping you'd say 'Ok we'll try again'.

But you didn't and you told him where to go plainly, after making it clear why.

You don't need to say anything else. You handled it well. He KNOWS why you dumped him.

If it ever comes up, if you ever see him again, a light 'Well, like I said at the time, there's good quality FWB with grown ups then there's rude booty calls with men who don't quite get how to do it properly' will suffice.

I'm another one who thinks you both have a different definition of FWB.

For a lot of people, the emphasis on FWB is on the benefits rather than the friend element. It's totally normal to get a booty call late at night, hook up for sex, and then head back home.

Hanging out for the evening and definitely spending the night way exceeds anything I've seen described in a FWB set-up before. I would say that is more of a casual relationship, not FWB.

The thing is OP, it doesn't really matter. What he wanted and what you want are different. We're arguing over semantics really - you're not compatible. I had a FWB set-up once many years ago - there were intense sparks between us, like nothing else I've ever experienced. Hot sex, brief chat afterwards and then on our way. Sparks don't really mean anything in the FWB context other than great sex.

I don't do FWB very well as I get emotionally involved. But some people, including women, absolutely do just want to hook up and have sex, and nothing more. You ask "who would want that??" - you'd be surprised. And it's totally fine if you're both on the same page and understand what's on offer.

FWIW, I absolutely think he'll be back when he fancies a shag. And I hope you're sufficiently strong enough to politely tell him to fuck off. You made it clear from the start that you wanted more than just a hookup albeit not a full relationship - he clearly knew that's not what he wanted but still carried it on.

I do find it ironic that the OP is being criticised, but it's sadly predictable on here. As these sort of threads seem to invariably be taken over by posters who are so cool, they can have sex and leave immediately afterwards, with no feelings or expectations of even the slightest morsel of affection. I do think that's very niche.

I also don't think this would have suited this man either as I suspect he is one of those ones who get a thrill out of the actual discarding. And for that he needed the build up, the expectation of more, so the let down could be all the bigger. He's a fake

I’ve done a FWB and a fuckbuddy thing.

Friends WB is chat, take away, sex, cuddles and home in the morning.

Fuckbuddy is just a shag and home straight after.

I’m not blaming either party - they just want different things from the arrangement, which is fine. It isn’t working for the op so move on. No drama.

[quote NotPrude]@VotNow

I think you need to brush this off as experience. You've not actually explained what he did that was rude and it could be there is a lot of detail you've missed out, but the reality is you had different expectations.

If you enter into a FWB relationship again, you will know to be clearer and firm in relation to what you want.[/quote]
Wow, you get the reward for most patronising comment ever! OP has explained very well what he did that was rude, as you well know.

Well done OP for understanding that you deserve to be treated with respect and that you're wants are just as important as a guys. It's not your fault that a lot of women here are happy to be treated like crap and if they really don't understand why this behaviour was so callous then all we can do is feel sorry for them.

@GreenlandTheMovie Yep, this thread has certainly been a painful read. How dare a woman think she should have a say in how she's treated! The audacity!

Google 'friends with benefits vs casual dating' and you get heaps of different responses. a lot of people saying that if you're hanging out in public, or going for dinner etc, then it's casual dating, not fwb. well, i don't know what you do with your friends, but we do more than just watch films at my house (in normal times...).

anyway, for me personally, it's pointless trying to label these things and fix the expectations of what that label means. much better to have a clear discussion at the start about what you actually want from your relationship (and I mean that word in the broadest of terms). you want something casual, with no expectations of each other but that doesn't just have to be 'come round, have sex, hop off home again'. He just wants someone to have regular hook ups with.

I don't know that there's really any point in getting angry at him - he said what he wanted, you said what you wanted, and at some point you tried to do what the other wanted and it didn't work. Look for someone else.

I would honestly suggest (if you're not looking for someone exclusive right now) looking for someone who's got some experience in non-monogamous relationships. They can be better at having these conversations about exactly how you want the relationship to look and an open discussion about boundaries and expectations right at the start.

If you enter into a FWB relationship again, you will know to be clearer and firm in relation to what you want.

Talk about victim blaming. But in this case the man portrayed a different image of himself, because he knew the way he really wanted to behave wouldn't get him anywhere. Once he got what he wanted he reverted back to type. So he's lied. It wasn't part of the Fwb details that the op told him she wanted. That's the massive problem with it. He could have walked away and looked for someone who was happy to simply be a useful walking vagina. But he didn't, probably because not many people would put up with that. He chose to violate her boundaries instead. To simply say hes an arsehole is understating the situation. The op has every right to feel upset and angry about this.

[quote IJustWantSomeBees]@GreenlandTheMovie Yep, this thread has certainly been a painful read. How dare a woman think she should have a say in how she's treated! The audacity![/quote]
My issue isn't that she shouldn't expect to say how she's treated. My issue is that she is asking an apple to treat her like an orange.

(Bit of a tortured analogy there, but you get my drift.)

@IJustWantSomeBees

Nope, can't see where he was rude...What did he say? How did he act? She hasn't explained that. She just keeps saying he was rude to me, but how?

No one says OP shouldn't be treated with respect, and yes, good for her that she's realised this is not what she wants and she's put a stop to it, but lots of people seem to be ignoring the fact that OP kept going back. She willingly went back several more times.

Well now you know that they DO fake that kind of body language so that's a good bit of info for the future!

YoniAndGuy for two months?? That's quite a feat. Sometimes I would be walking past, happen to look up, and I would catch him staring. So he would have to be fake staring deliberately every time I walked past just so that occasionally I would happen to look up and catch him? Sounds exhausting.

I don't think I could keep up with that level of fakery for two months for a lottery win. Why on earth would anyone do it for sex with someone they're not even that attracted to? Why? That makes no sense at all.

He said he only wanted sex from the start.

He was honest from the start. He tried to do what the op wanted and it didn’t work out for him or her.

Adults just draw a line and move on.

Don't ever message him again. As you said, anything that you say will be taken by him as you hankering after him. If you ever are in a position where he brings this up with you, at your shared hobby or whatever, suggest that his performance didn't meet your needs so you called it a day.

@VotNow

It sounds like he was attracted to you. I don't think he was fake flirting or fake staring...he wanted you, no question about that and you probably had good chemistry too.

Please don't think you've been played...you just had very different expectations on the outcome you were both looking for. That's all.

I think that friends with benefits relationships rarely work out because one or the other party invariably wants different things. He only wanted a shag, which personally wouldn’t be for me either, and you wanted more, and judging by the fact you took notice of his flirting etc I think there was a chance you were falling for him, and regardless of how things had panned out in the casual sense there was a risk you were going to get hurt.

I certainly don’t think anyone should settle for purely a shag if that’s not what they feel, I certainly wouldn’t, but I think the risk then of having an FWB relationship is that you have to have too much discussion and agreement on what you want beforehand, and at that point it becomes too much like getting into a relationship.

I would just not speak to him again,and maybe think about what you do want from a relationship, and whether anything casual would really work for you. It’s not for everyone.

Would would you not tell him straight? Of course you can give him your opinion on him then decline to ever speak to him again. You don't need permission to say what you like. But I wouldn't bother as he doesn't care in that way.

'Friends with benefits' is a misnomer btw. Calling it friends just sounds nicer. In reality, people in real friendships don't fuck each other. He wanted to scratch a physical itch whereas you wanted emotional intimacy. His signals were all about lust. You just weren't compatible that's all.

@NotPrude All your questions can be answered by reading the thread. Like I said, it's fine if you're a cool girl and don't mind being treated like this, but don't expect other women to have a low bar just because you do.

If you have so little respect for yourself to get into this agreement in the first place, then you can hardly expect any respect from him.

@Lavenderfieldsofprovence

If you have so little respect for yourself to get into this agreement in the first place, then you can hardly expect any respect from him.

In what way do I not have respect for myself when I have a fuckbuddy thing with a hot bloke I want to shag?

@IJustWantSomeBees

And there we have it...someone slut shaming me because they disagree with me.

Shame on you and your hypocrisy.

Goodness me - you have a total lack of respect for YOURSELF, never mind what he's doing. At least he's been consistent - you've chosen to accept what he's offered from the start

It's time to work on yourself and don't allow yourself to be treated in this way. Oh and be honest with yourself too - it's ok to want a relationship - you don't have to convince yourself you're cool with a FWB thing when you're clearly not

@NotPrude What on earth are you on about now? I'm talking about respecting people's boundaries and listening to others when they communicate their needs, something that you have been trying to tell the OP she was not entitled to expect because she 'kept going back'. Again, if you think it is fine for someone to ignore you when you tell them how you expect to be treated then you do you, but don't tell other women that they don't have the right to expect their boundaries to be respected.

Oh please no, Lavenderfields. You may have an opinion that sex is something that women trade in return for love and commitment, and that any woman who does not hold out for these things is selling herself short and unworthy of respect, but you can keep it to yourself as far as I'm concerned. It's archaic and it doesn't interest me.

The way this man behaved didn't suit me. At all. In hindsight perhaps I could have made some different choices. But I do have fundamental respect and liking for myself, and I would still consider a FWB relationship.

He told you he wanted a shag. You said you wanted a shag. That's what you got. Stop trying to make more of it.

Lisalemon is correct.