Calling out this man for his shitty behaviour is a terrible idea isn't it.

[VotNow]

Casual relationship. We agreed to be FWB. This was preceded by a couple of months heavy flirting during which he gave every impression of being very attracted to me. He even told someone else he fancied me (who then told me.) All the body language, the catching him watching me when he thought I wasn't looking, the finding excuses to be around me and stand close to me, the playful flirty joking around.

He said he only wanted sex from the start. Fine. I wanted sex with him too. But he was a dreadful FWB. The first time we hooked up he basically told me it was time for me to go after we were finished. I put my foot down and told him I expected to be treated with respect and kindness, even in a casual relationship, and he seemed to get a little better. The second time we got together he made me food and we spent more time talking etc. I was happy enough with that. But he reverted back to being disrespectful and rude again. Ignoring messages when it suited him. Texting at 11.45pm at night (which to be fair, I ignored because I'm not going round at that time.)

The last time we got together was after I had backed off a fair bit. We bumped into eachother and one thing led to another. I still fancied him a lot. But this time he came really quickly (unlike him) and then basically announced - like the first time we got together - that he was done and it was time for me to go now.

We talked and I made it clear that this was unnacceptable to me. That I had been looking forward to some hot sex with someone who would be my friend. I told him that although I was happy with casual and knew we would not be serious, that I thought we had real chemistry. He shook his head and just said we should call it a day. Basically said that I had only been a willing vagina rather than someone he felt an actual connection with.

Well of course I agree that if it's going to be like this then we should call it a day. But I remember back to when we were flirting and how he couldn't do enough for me - getting me drinks and making me coffees at our shared hobby. Always finding excuses to hang around me. The flirting. The staring as I walked past. You don't fake that sort of body language - I now feel so confused. How could I have got it so wrong? It stings and humiliates like buggery.

And I feel furious. With myself for not dumping his arse far sooner, but also with him. I feel he has treated me like shit. The only decent thing he has ever done is end things definitively rather than just ghosting me.

What I want to do is tell him off. Send him a message telling him he's a shit. That decent men are able to treat casual partners decently while maintaining the necessary boundaries. I want to tell him he's immature and that I deserved better.

But this is a terrible idea isn't it. He will probably just tell himself I'm crazy and that I lurve him (I don't.) And considering I haven't contacted him in any way for almost a week since he ended things, if I message now I'm just going to look like I'm still thinking about it (I am but perhaps he does not need to know this.)

How to handle. We're not strangers and are still going to see eachother about.

This sounds like mismatched expectations and that not being made clear at the start. He had different ideas about what the arrangement entailed than you did. Neither are wrong, just not compatible.

Ok maybe a base level of respect should be expected, and the sex to not be totally selfish, but again, it’s down to expectations

I think put this one down to experience. Not his fault so you’d be wrong to tell him off. Not your fault either.

The flirtation did go on for quite a while (a couple of months or so) before anything happened Greenland. And I was very surprised to discover quite how rude he could be.

I don't accept that he didn't behave badly. A minimum of politeness and respect are due everyone we interact with: the woman serving us in Tesco, the bus driver, the casual acquaintance, and the friend. What is it about putting your dick in someone that means all this no longer applies?

NotPrude the OP already said she wouldn't have agreed to it if she'd known she would be treated disrespectfully. Their was no friendship in his actions although he promised a FWB situation, not a few casual sex hook ups.

Very few people (not just women) would agree to that. It's such awful behaviour that you would have to be devoid of normal human emotions to agree to it.

All the flirting beforehand through the shared hobby was to lead her into a false sense of security. This man knows perfectly well that he would barely get sex at all with anyone if he said "when you come over, I'll have sex with you then I want you to leave as soon as possible afterwards as I just want to satisfy myself and don't care about you".

That's not even FWB.

Don't worry about him, you need to work on your self respect.

Honestly, there's more to life than a shit shag with some bloke who doesn't even like you enough to talk to you.

And do you think he's staying up all night or getting on a forum to ask advice on how to maintain your friendship? OR whether he should have treated you better seeing as you will still bump into each other?

So please don't care how he'll react if you call him out. He didn't care that he might hurt the feelings of someone in his friendship circle, did he? Please don't let a man dictate how you should and shouldn't behave. Own your upset - unless you're an actual crazy person - your feelings are valid.

@GreenlandTheMovie I disagree. Sometimes you need that friendship / attachment basis to have a relationship like that, hence the flirting over a period of 2 months. But you can still have a strictly sex relationship.

OP says she wouldn’t have seen him if she knew, but she did know and she carried on seeing him. The very first time they had sex he made it clear that’s what he wanted. She said she wanted more, so he actually respected that for a while. It then went back to him expecting her to leave after sex when he went back to his old ways, and in fact him only texting to come round for sex is again clear that’s what he wanted. But she carried on seeing him again and again after that. So she says she wouldn’t have if she knew, but once she did know she did, but lied to herself that it would be more.

The way she’s reacted is perfectly human, but she can’t act like a victim here.

And I actually agree with Jurassic that calling people out on their bad behaviour can help you move on. It's so British to think ignoring and blocking is the best way. I was discussing this with a French friend and she told me that she finds a number of men here quite badly behaved, as no one ever corrects them,so they keep doing it. Effectively, they get off Scot-free. And France is the country that pretty much invented gigolo, but there's a way of letting down women and still making it a pleasant exierience for both.

She saw him 3 times NotPrude. After the first time, the OP told him his behaviour was unacceptable to her and so the second time he cooked her dinner and was presumably not rude. Then she saw a third time, when he reverted to bad behaviour, and it ended. Hardly seeing him "time and time again"!

Can we please move on for blaming women for having sex with men?

Your expectations are entirely reasonable OP but he clearly doesn’t share them or care how you feel. No amount of carefully worded or rehearsed ‘tellings off’ will change this.
He gave you the Tesco value version of FWB, try to go up a brand next time.

I didn't see him again and again Prude. I saw him four or five times. I called out what I felt was the rude behaviour on the first hook up. He improved slightly. He only reverted back completely the last time we saw eachother. So I wasn't putting up with this endlessly and I also made my expectations clear.

He texted late in the evening twice. Neither time did I go round because I wasn't happy with being texted for a quick bunk up at that time. The first time I said no, the second time I ignored him completely.

@GreenlandTheMovie

And I actually agree with Jurassic that calling people out on their bad behaviour can help you move on. It's so British to think ignoring and blocking is the best way. I was discussing this with a French friend and she told me that she finds a number of men here quite badly behaved, as no one ever corrects them,so they keep doing it. Effectively, they get off Scot-free. And France is the country that pretty much invented gigolo, but there's a way of letting down women and still making it a pleasant exierience for both.

But this presumes that he will take the criticism on board and improve himself. From the Ops description he seems pretty rude and self-centred, quite unlikely to reflect on his behaviour. I wouldn’t bother ‘calling him out’ mainly because I know it would be wasted energy.

I expect a minimum of respect from anyone I interact with. This does not make me unreasonable

Absolutely you do! I'm glad you're not listening to anyone trying to convince you that his behaviour was acceptable! I fear a lot of women here have dangerously low standards for how they expect to be treated by men. FWB does not equal no respect or regard for the other human that you are interacting with.

@wimhoffbreather

Why does everything revolve around the lense of making him care, making him change, making him better??

You call out bad behaviour to make YOURSELF feel better - because it is proven that voicing upset, anger and disappointment is better for YOU. Repressing it means you'll stew for months/years and then have the narrative that all men are arseholes because you never had the chance to confront the ONE man who was.

He matters not one bit. The point of this is for the OP to make clear his behaviour was unacceptable and to let him know she won't have any part of it, and actually thought he was flaky, and disrespectful in the way he came across. Then she can delete/block, whatever.

But she has spoken her truth. If she doesn't, I can guarantee she'll still be thinking of him a few months from now. Or feel wary of every man after this.

I'd go over, we'd have a drink, maybe something to eat, have sex, and perhaps I'd stay the night. There would be an amount of warmth and respect.

This is more of a date night than FWB.

Yes, he should ask you yo leave politely and not be rude, but the deal was clear FWB- just sex

No @GreenlandTheMovie, you don't get to accuse me of shaming women just because you don't like what I said. What on earth have I said that has shamed women for wanting sex...Extremely disappointing that you use a serious societal problem in that way for cheap shots to someone you disagree with. Please grow up.

(P.s. I enjoyed a FWB relationship for a number of years which was strictly sex and go, and as both our intentions were clear AND we were on the same page, there was no hurt with each other)

OP has now admitted she met him 4 or 5 times (I genuinely suspect more from the way she described her interactions him in her original post). I am all for women sleeping with whoever they want how many times they want, but he made his intentions very clear...he always only wanted sex, said that, and acted in that way.

Maybe you should stop your natural man hating as he never led her on...OP clearly wanted more, he didn't.

IJustWantSomeBees I know, it's so depressing listening to these posts excusing the man and blaming the OP. And then any criticism of a man is "man hating". It's like some kind of warped 1950s view of any woman who isn't married as deserving what she gets.

@JurassicParkAha ok if it makes you feel better than great! Just saying it’s not for me. I’ve called people out when I know they’ll ‘hear’ me as it were. I don’t bother arguing with people who always think they’re right.

And anyway my response was to Greenland who included a bit about her french friend talk about how they call out men there.

I find some of these responses bizarre. Imagine - a man says he wants to go out for a burger. He and OP go out for a burger. OP then complains that she didn't get a three course meal. This happens four or five times

All that "I would go over there, we chat, have dinner, I stay the night" etc is far more than most people want or expect from FWB!

NotPrude and Tigger your failure to realise that your own personal bar is set differently from many other womens' is really sad to listen to. I'd say what you found acceptable is fairly unusual and niche and I can't think of one single friend who wouldn't find it odd. Thats not me saying there's anything wrong with it, just that it's you who are out of kilter. So don't go trying to impose your views on someone else

2 people are involved. Not only 1 of them gets to set expectations.

@1stDecember

I know! And pointing that out is somehow slut shaming and victim blaming! He never once said he wants more, he was always clear, yet some how we're meant to act like OP has been messed around. She wanted a casual relationship, he wanted FWB / FBs - they wanted different things. Nothing wrong with that but let's not act like OP has been played.

@GreenlandTheMovie Equally, I know many many women who are happy with such an arrangement. So you're also imposing your views on those who disagree, and resort to cheap shots when they see things differently... Don't assume everyone is the same as you either...

Both of them set expectations. That's what you are missing. His expectations were clear, so were hers. They were mismatched, end of.

Ok 1stDecember let's go with your analogy. A man says he wants to go out for a burger. Op would also like this - she likes burgers. However, they get to the restaurant and the man is rude to the waiting staff and refuses to pay for his half of the bill. Op feels man is rude and out of order. This is because he's rude and out of order.

"Just sex" doesn't mean callous. It doesn't mean rude. It doesn't mean treating your partner worse than you'd treat anyone else.

You don't fake that sort of body language - I now feel so confused. How could I have got it so wrong? It stings and humiliates like buggery.

Actually there are some men that do exactly this. They play the game, do the actions, mirror your body language and be the perfect man you want them to be. Of course its not real, it's part of the game. And the end fun part of that is to do exactly what he did. There was a thing, some years ago, of men doing the above, sometimes for months, taking the relationship slowly. And then when it gets to the point where the relationship has naturally progressed, and they would have had sex, the abusive male rapes the woman, just before she's at the the point of consent. Pretty appalling is an understatement. It's worth being aware that these people are out there.

@VotNow

I think you need to brush this off as experience. You've not actually explained what he did that was rude and it could be there is a lot of detail you've missed out, but the reality is you had different expectations.

If you enter into a FWB relationship again, you will know to be clearer and firm in relation to what you want.

@VotNow

Ok 1stDecember let's go with your analogy. A man says he wants to go out for a burger. Op would also like this - she likes burgers. However, they get to the restaurant and the man is rude to the waiting staff and refuses to pay for his half of the bill. Op feels man is rude and out of order. This is because he's rude and out of order.

"Just sex" doesn't mean callous. It doesn't mean rude. It doesn't mean treating your partner worse than you'd treat anyone else.

Sure. But don't then do it four or five times, and still complain!