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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

He says it's not cheating...

175 replies

tiredofthisshit · 23/11/2020 14:18

Warning - long.
Big back story to this. I've name changed too because I'm embarrassed and disappointed, mostly in myself but I'll get to that.

Been married for 2 and a bit years, together for five. Two children, DD2 yrs and DS8 months and our eldest son would have been 3, he was stillborn in 2017, he was our first child.

We've been through hell and back together, losing our first baby was the worst thing to ever have to experience and it did bring us closer together which is probably why I have forgiven things in the past.

There have been indiscretions on his part before, apparently nothing physical - I found images in his phone, photos of himself exposed, which he had sent to a supposed random woman he had found through a dating chat website sort of thing. At the time of me finding them, the messages were historical and there was no clear evidence that it was a long term thing. More of a photo exchange for kicks and to wank off to.

He claimed that this was something he had always done and viewed this as porn essentially. There was no intention of ever meeting said woman and she wasn't the first one he had done this with. He viewed it as just the same as going on a website and watching a porn video. I told him I didn't think it was the same at all and I wasn't comfortable with it.
This was in 2017 when I was pregnant with our first son who passed away.

After he was born, the relationship felt as if it had evolved and become something else. I was as dependent on him as he was me, for support more than anything. It felt as if no one else in the world knew our pain and so we stuck together. He proposed to me a month or so after our son was born and I said yes. We were married the following September. Nothing has happened since then to arouse any suspicions, however I've always had it at the back of my mind and I haven't been able to trust him 100%. I think I thought he would probably be doing something similar but I just didn't really think about it. Having two young children it was perhaps too painful and inconvenient if I was to discover anything more. I don't know.

Fast forward to last night.
We decided to set up a family app sharing thing on our phones. He was due to go on a work trip and I had an app that would be of use so we set it up so he could download it for free off my account. In doing this it gave him access to see all the apps I have ever downloaded on my phone. It gave me the same for his phone.

I was having an idle look through his to see if he had anything useful. We were sat next to each other at the time, it wasn't a sneaky thing, he was looking at mine too. Anyway, I see a dating and hook up app, downloaded 2019. Then another, downloaded in 2018 (just before I had our daughter). Then a secret file app for hiding photos etc, downloaded 2 weeks after our wedding.

I asked him to explain. He got mad, said he was "sick of this" and that he was "done". More claims of it "just being porn" and that I was somehow irrational. All the things you'd expect a found out guilty party to say. He didn't really explain very well and it didn't make me feel as though it was an ok thing to be doing. I didn't feel irrational, I felt pissed off. With myself for being stupid enough to think he'd stop and with him of course for being a nasty, disrespectful piece of work.

He's gone on his work trip. We haven't spoken since. He's away for three days and I'm taking the opportunity to get a feel of what being a single mum is like because I think that's where it's headed. I'm not worried about caring for the children by myself. I do that anyway pretty much as he works practically every hour that god sends. He doesn't do any night feeds, nothing during work hours. He's present for one hour between 6-7pm and that's it. Weekends vary, he sometimes works them too.

I am a SAHM, I have been since I had my daughter 2 years ago. She doesn't go to nursery yet and I have no job. My main concerns are financial as he holds all the money. I would like to hope he wouldn't be a bastard about paying for the kids but I don't want to rely on that either. I understand there are certain benefits etc but I don't really know what I would need to apply for. I have no family. My parents are abusive bastards and we don't speak. So he is literally the only other adult I have. I do have friends but none close by.

Don't really know what the question is here. Time to pack his bags? If I forgive him he's just going to carry on doing it and making me feel worthless. He didn't care last night he was just stomping his feet and trying to make himself out to be the victim, whilst crowing "I haven't cheated".

Im at the "I don't feel anything about this" stage.

OP posts:
BunnyGardener · 23/11/2020 14:23

Didn't want to read and run and I have no real advice for you but I just wanted to say that I am really sorry for the situation you are in. You and your children deserve a lot more than this.

Don't be too afraid to leave because of him and the way he might react. If you are unhappy then you have options. You deserve to be happy and loved and treated with respect.

qazxc · 23/11/2020 14:26

I wouldn't view it as " just porn". He is interacting with others, it's not like viewing a video.
He knows that he is hurting you by doing this and still does it to get his sexual kicks.

notapizzaeater · 23/11/2020 14:27

I'd be packing his bags tbh. He's not bringing anything other than money to the relationship.,

Meruem · 23/11/2020 14:28

It's not up to him to unilaterally decide what constitutes cheating in the relationship. That's not how it works.

You are correct in thinking that if you let this go, it will just continue. You'll never have any peace of mind and over time your self esteem will end up on the floor.

The "entitled to" website is often recommended here at working out your financial entitlements. I certainly wouldn't let finances stop you leaving him, and it sounds like he is of very little practical help as well. I'm sorry you're going through this. It's shit and you've been through a lot. But you come across as strong and capable so I am sure that you can make a better life without him Flowers

tiredofthisshit · 23/11/2020 14:31

Pretty much all he brings is money.

The time we do spend together is filled with him moaning about the jobs I haven't done or him napping because he's tired from work. He's of the opinion that I have it really easy being home all day, despite the fact that the youngest is a terrible sleeper and I'm often up until 4am with him and then up again at 7am to start the day with my daughter.

He has no respect for how much I do. He only sees the bad and it's pretty depressing to be honest.

OP posts:
Sparklfairy · 23/11/2020 14:31

It's not up to him to decide if it's cheating. The "victim" of cheating gets to decide that, whatever their boundaries are. Also I doubt he would be ok with it if it were you sending naked pics to strangers.

category12 · 23/11/2020 14:32

Why doesn't he just use porn instead, knowing this is an issue between you, if it's just the same? Hmm

I'd get some legal advice and think about whether you want to keep doing this.

tiredofthisshit · 23/11/2020 14:33

That was my question @category12 - by that point he was just shouting and not listening so I didn't get a definitive answer.

OP posts:
Babdoc · 23/11/2020 14:35

The only good thing this bloke has done is marry you. Because that means you are financially safeguarded, and entitled to half the marital assets. Plus he will have to pay maintenance for the children. So you may be better off, post divorce, than you think.

See a solicitor and get some advice on your position. Then you will have the facts you need to make your decision.
He really doesn’t sound like much of a partner - you rarely see him, he’s either working, or sending dick pics to other women. Are there any reasons to stay with him?

TheStripes · 23/11/2020 14:36

Do you have access to the money?

I’m really sorry about what you have been through. One of my babies died and I always feel I would be more angry with DH if our relationship ended because he is the closest person to me who knows what we went through and how we keep her memory alive so I would be very lenient compared to others. However, what you are going through would be too much for me end I would end things.

I’d make preparations now for the relationship ending and ensuring as much as possible was prepared for and planned.

Gilda152 · 23/11/2020 14:37

OP he provides but his actual primary relationship is with his phone and where it can lead him. That's not a life. Usually I can see both sides of most issues but it's pointless to try with this one. Yes if you stay with him he'll continue to conduct his sex life online and not with you or certainly not exclusively. You can be amicable co-parents and go find a bette more fulfilling relationship than this.

tiredofthisshit · 23/11/2020 14:38

No access to any money at all. He runs his own business and he's the company director. He doesn't take a wage either and has no taxable income, so if he doesn't willingly pay for the children, going to the CMS will be pointless because he will be judged as a zero earner

OP posts:
TheStripes · 23/11/2020 14:39

How about benefits? If you don’t get any child support, can you get by with any benefits you would be entitled to?

MostDisputesDieAndNoOneShoots · 23/11/2020 14:40

I think that you need to have a conversation. But I would feel the same way that you do. I’m sorry that you’re going through this. For what it’s worth you sound very sensible and switched on and kind. He doesn’t deserve you, that’s for sure.

tiredofthisshit · 23/11/2020 14:41

That's the question @TheStripes - I don't know what I would be entitled to though, I've never claimed benefits before.

For further clarification, the apps were not on his phone yesterday, it showed that they had been downloaded in 2018/2019 and had been stored in the cloud. So he's not using these particular apps now but that's not to say there's something else going on, which I'm sure there probably is.

OP posts:
BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 23/11/2020 14:42

He doesn't take a wage or have income? So how does he finance the family home and bills? Is he putting these through the business?

You need to fine toothcomb the house today and take photos of every document you cab find relating to the house and the business.

user1514310137 · 23/11/2020 14:43

I left my husband. I put up with it for 11 years and one day he left the PC open. He didnt even try to hide it anymore.
I survived on benefits until my youngest went to school. It was hard but not as hard as living with someone who disrespects you so much

My thoughts are with you

QuentinWinters · 23/11/2020 14:47

He was angry because you've got him bang to rights and he's trying to deflect/distract you. No doubt he's had time to think of a good story while he's been away.
I'd be leaving if I was you.

category12 · 23/11/2020 14:48

@tiredofthisshit

No access to any money at all. He runs his own business and he's the company director. He doesn't take a wage either and has no taxable income, so if he doesn't willingly pay for the children, going to the CMS will be pointless because he will be judged as a zero earner
Ugh, is that legal? He sounds dodgy af.

Sounds like you're going to need a good solicitor and forensic accountant to get your share financially.

tiredofthisshit · 23/11/2020 14:48

As it works currently, he pays me a "wage" for bills and such. Before we were married the house we live in was mine, so all bills etc go out of my account, so that's where the money needs to go for the direct debits.

He has no outgoings from his account so he doesn't take a wage and therefore doesn't pay tax, everything goes through me essentially.

OP posts:
tiredofthisshit · 23/11/2020 14:50

Yes it's legal category. He's got a good accountant on board.

So what I said was not really true - I do have access to money but only what he gives me, if that makes sense. I can't access the business account where all the profits go.

OP posts:
RantyAnty · 23/11/2020 14:51

You get to decide if it's cheating, not him.

Try to find a legal counsel who will give your a free 30 minute session. He may not pay himself a salary but he has to classify the money he gets somehow. Unearned income, dividends. You may be able to get part of his business.

ProfessorPootle · 23/11/2020 14:51

If it’s no big deal how would he react to you having dating apps and apps to hide what you’re up to? And like a pop said if it’s ‘just porn’ then why not use porn rather than trying to hook up with other other women?

Access the entitled to website and you can find out what benefits you’d qualify for, as a company director he can totally screw you over and never pay anything with his zero salary job. Do you own the house? Any other assets? Rather than speaking to him first get some financial advice, speak to solicitor about divorce settlement and then perhaps email him saying it is cheating and you’re done. Then he can stomp and shout as much as he likes but he’ll have at least have read your message and understand your point of view.

category12 · 23/11/2020 14:55

I expect he thinks he's incredibly clever to avoid the tax man, and that arrogance also plays out in his rules-lawyering about how "it's not really cheating".

Gigheimer · 23/11/2020 14:56

Yes it’s cheating, he is also using these unsuspecting women (who granted should be aware this could happen), so he’s generally an awful person.

You need a solicitor, it may be his company but as you are married you’re entitled to that too. He must pay himself dividends, or he’s simply breaking the law to “employ” you. Either way I suspect you will be financially entitled to more than you think, benefits will take you the rest of the way and with childcare payment support you can start to investigate your own ability to earn and become independent and strong.

Otherwise he will drive you into being a shell of yourself with no trust or self esteem. Flowers

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