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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

He says it's not cheating...

175 replies

tiredofthisshit · 23/11/2020 14:18

Warning - long.
Big back story to this. I've name changed too because I'm embarrassed and disappointed, mostly in myself but I'll get to that.

Been married for 2 and a bit years, together for five. Two children, DD2 yrs and DS8 months and our eldest son would have been 3, he was stillborn in 2017, he was our first child.

We've been through hell and back together, losing our first baby was the worst thing to ever have to experience and it did bring us closer together which is probably why I have forgiven things in the past.

There have been indiscretions on his part before, apparently nothing physical - I found images in his phone, photos of himself exposed, which he had sent to a supposed random woman he had found through a dating chat website sort of thing. At the time of me finding them, the messages were historical and there was no clear evidence that it was a long term thing. More of a photo exchange for kicks and to wank off to.

He claimed that this was something he had always done and viewed this as porn essentially. There was no intention of ever meeting said woman and she wasn't the first one he had done this with. He viewed it as just the same as going on a website and watching a porn video. I told him I didn't think it was the same at all and I wasn't comfortable with it.
This was in 2017 when I was pregnant with our first son who passed away.

After he was born, the relationship felt as if it had evolved and become something else. I was as dependent on him as he was me, for support more than anything. It felt as if no one else in the world knew our pain and so we stuck together. He proposed to me a month or so after our son was born and I said yes. We were married the following September. Nothing has happened since then to arouse any suspicions, however I've always had it at the back of my mind and I haven't been able to trust him 100%. I think I thought he would probably be doing something similar but I just didn't really think about it. Having two young children it was perhaps too painful and inconvenient if I was to discover anything more. I don't know.

Fast forward to last night.
We decided to set up a family app sharing thing on our phones. He was due to go on a work trip and I had an app that would be of use so we set it up so he could download it for free off my account. In doing this it gave him access to see all the apps I have ever downloaded on my phone. It gave me the same for his phone.

I was having an idle look through his to see if he had anything useful. We were sat next to each other at the time, it wasn't a sneaky thing, he was looking at mine too. Anyway, I see a dating and hook up app, downloaded 2019. Then another, downloaded in 2018 (just before I had our daughter). Then a secret file app for hiding photos etc, downloaded 2 weeks after our wedding.

I asked him to explain. He got mad, said he was "sick of this" and that he was "done". More claims of it "just being porn" and that I was somehow irrational. All the things you'd expect a found out guilty party to say. He didn't really explain very well and it didn't make me feel as though it was an ok thing to be doing. I didn't feel irrational, I felt pissed off. With myself for being stupid enough to think he'd stop and with him of course for being a nasty, disrespectful piece of work.

He's gone on his work trip. We haven't spoken since. He's away for three days and I'm taking the opportunity to get a feel of what being a single mum is like because I think that's where it's headed. I'm not worried about caring for the children by myself. I do that anyway pretty much as he works practically every hour that god sends. He doesn't do any night feeds, nothing during work hours. He's present for one hour between 6-7pm and that's it. Weekends vary, he sometimes works them too.

I am a SAHM, I have been since I had my daughter 2 years ago. She doesn't go to nursery yet and I have no job. My main concerns are financial as he holds all the money. I would like to hope he wouldn't be a bastard about paying for the kids but I don't want to rely on that either. I understand there are certain benefits etc but I don't really know what I would need to apply for. I have no family. My parents are abusive bastards and we don't speak. So he is literally the only other adult I have. I do have friends but none close by.

Don't really know what the question is here. Time to pack his bags? If I forgive him he's just going to carry on doing it and making me feel worthless. He didn't care last night he was just stomping his feet and trying to make himself out to be the victim, whilst crowing "I haven't cheated".

Im at the "I don't feel anything about this" stage.

OP posts:
SoulofanAggron · 23/11/2020 18:41

Of course it's cheating or probably indicates a desire to cheat in the flesh. He's on a dating site- which people join to find dates. So many men pretend it's 'just porn' if they're caught out, but I think it's pretty dodgy.

Baileysandcream · 23/11/2020 18:42

OP you can look up the company details on Company's House website to see what you can find out about it, particularly if it is a limited company or a partnership.

If Limited, then the company is a legal entity in it's own right. If a partnership then director's have more personal responsibility in terms of debt. Company's House website should state the names of directors so you can check if you're listed.

Take screen shots of everything you can find so you have a record of how things stand now.

jay55 · 23/11/2020 18:44

Are you a co director or company secretary (companies house will list you under people for the company, if you don't know)?
Either way you should be able to call up the accountant and ask for an overview of the tax situation and the latest long form accounts.

Baileysandcream · 23/11/2020 18:51

@jay55

Are you a co director or company secretary (companies house will list you under people for the company, if you don't know)? Either way you should be able to call up the accountant and ask for an overview of the tax situation and the latest long form accounts.
I'd be very cautious about contacting the accountant at the moment if you don't want your DH to know that you are looking into things just now.

There is a a possibility the accountant could mention to him that you've asked for this.

tiredofthisshit · 23/11/2020 18:55

I mentioned above - I am a shareholder in the company. Not a director in any way shape or form.

It's a LTD company. Husband owns it. No other people involved, it's just him. No employees, other directors or anything.

OP posts:
tiredofthisshit · 23/11/2020 18:56

I won't be contacting the accountant. I doubt they would give me much and they are pretty tight knit as far as I can tell so wouldn't trust them

OP posts:
SortingItOut · 23/11/2020 18:59

There may be issues with you being a shareholder of a limited company and claiming Universal Credit.

Once you end your marriage you need to get this changed otherwise it can have consequences.

Palavah · 23/11/2020 19:09

I agree emphatically that you should spend the rest of the time that he's aways focused on gathering copies of all the paperwork you can get your hands on relating to the business's income and costs.

I realise the emotional pull will be to see what he's been doing on the apps but this is secondary to securing the right outcome for you and your children at this point.

SortingItOut · 23/11/2020 19:10

My husband was similar to yours apart from he didnt download dating/hook up sites, instead he used to message women on Facebook.

I dont believe he physically cheated but he had numerous emotional affairs.

He didnt see it as cheating but no doubt if i did the same he wouldnt have liked it.

Each time i found out he would shout and argue, stonewall me, threaten suicide and then eventually gaslight me.
Eventually i would sweep it under the carpet and life continued.

The next time i caught him he would deny it, shout, argue and stonewall me again but would admit to what he did on the last occasion.

After 17 years i left, I'm 2.5 years down the line and couldnt be happier.

He told me he did all the emotional affairs for an ego boost and he never expected me to leave. He thought i would just put up with him doing it.

He too had an awful childhood, full of abuse and suffered with his mental health but that is no excuse to treat a person badly or to disrespect them.

I hope you can get through this, you deserve so much moreFlowers

CaraDuneRedux · 23/11/2020 19:18

How much do you feel you actually understand about the inner workings of the company?

If as various people on this thread have suggested, he is financially controlling, is it possible he's got you to sign up on documents such that you now have a financial liability you didn't completely understand at the time of signing? I'm worried he may have stitched you up financially such that you are now jointly liable for any financial mismanagement (and from what little you've said it does sound like he might be in trouble with HMRC). This will make it harder to disentangle yourself from the marriage.

tiredofthisshit · 23/11/2020 19:23

I haven't signed anything regarding the company. That's not to say he hasn't signed it for me...

OP posts:
CaraDuneRedux · 23/11/2020 19:40

@tiredofthisshit

I haven't signed anything regarding the company. That's not to say he hasn't signed it for me...
That would be fraud on his part, and he'd be looking at quite a heavy sentence for that one!

But good to know you haven't signed anything.

Baileysandcream · 23/11/2020 20:55

If it's a Limited company, then that means limited liability for directors - ie. not personally responsible for debt. The company is a legal entity in it's own right.

Its fairly standard for directors to pay themselves a minimum wage and pay themselves dividends as it can be much more tax efficient. However, it would seem very strange for a director to not take out any money, because I'm pretty sure this would mean the company pays more in corporation tax as there would be higher profits.

Might be worth keeping an eye out for other bank accounts that you're not aware of in case he is taking money out and not telling you about it.

If you've been paid a regular "wage" to cover the bills, you could be on the books as an employee, or some kind of contractor where invoices are sent to the business. Unless it's share dividends but I can't offer much advice on that. Hopefully someone with more accounting knowledge might pick this up and be able to give some better advice.

Baileysandcream · 23/11/2020 20:58

Sorry - posted too quick.

Sorry to derail and focus on his busness, but you're already getting lots of great advice on the cheating aspect.

Do you still have access to the apps he's downloaded? Check for bank accounts that you're not aware of !

Febo24 · 23/11/2020 21:29

I found this article really helped me understand my feelings on whether it is cheating or not.

www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/love-and-sex-in-the-digital-age/201610/cheating-it-was-just-webcam

For me, it is an infidelity. Something that was kept from me and was part of our relationship without me knowing it.

I did find stuff before, but I was led to believe it was no longer happening but lo and behold it was and progressed to camming.

We have separated. It's early days but I'm feeling better, but it took me a while to get to even this point. He'll minimise it, maybe blame you. But it's not about you, it might not even be about sex.

Viviennemary · 23/11/2020 21:35

It's not just s question of what is on his phone which is bad enough. You sound quite unhappy. So you actually own the house you live in. I agree you need legal advice to sort this out.

Lamppostcat · 23/11/2020 22:17

So he is fine with you exchanging the same type of pictures with men online ?
What does he say when you put this too him considering he sees this as ‘ only porn ‘
Not saying you would do that but he surely doesn’t have a leg to stand on if you chose to
He’s a sexist who sees women as Witt Madonna or whore . He has you nicely slotted in your role and the wifey ‘ in his mind ‘ and assumes you won’t or can’t rock the boat
He has no idea the strength women possess . Is there someone close to you who can help you escape this abusive situation ? You’ll need somewhere to stay temporarily and a way to get access to your half of the money he is locking you out of . A good solicitor will make it happen but it’s a process . So sorry all this is happening

tiredofthisshit · 23/11/2020 22:46

I said to him last night "so it's ok for me to go on dating sites like this" his response was "as long as you're not meeting up with people, because that's different"

OP posts:
tiredofthisshit · 23/11/2020 23:02

I don't even know what sort of relationship he thinks we are in.

He text earlier to ask if the kids were ok (which I know he doesn't actually really give a fuck about), probably just testing the water to try and see where my head is at. I replied with a simple "they're fine". I don't believe in using children as weapons and I have always said to myself that I wouldn't try to manipulate any relationship or situation with them.

I have been really down and miserable for quite a while. I do get occasional depressive episodes so it's not unusual. I have been very harsh on myself recently, judging my own parenting as I have gone from one baby to two. Micromanaging myself, being overly critical with how I have handled difficult situations with the tantruming toddler. I think I have come to the realisation the in fact all along I have been alone. No support, no willingness to help, me having to ask if he would mind settling the youngest because he won't if I don't say something, (even though I've been up all night). I am very preoccupied with not being terrible like my parents were with me. I don't want to damage my children, so this is where the harshness on myself comes in. I have found today though, knowing he's not coming back, has been fine. I haven't felt stressed or anxious about the children, I have just got in bed and I feel quite relaxed.

Sorry, rambling. But trying to make sense, I suppose.

OP posts:
SandyY2K · 23/11/2020 23:30

My view is that it doesn't have to be cheating, for the behaviour to be inappropriate and unacceptable to you.

I don't personally consider sending dick pics to be cheating, but I absolutely find it disgusting, Immature and just stupid, so it would be a dealbreaker if my H sent them to anyone.

The dating sites just confirm he's been up to no good.

I'm sorry he's treated you like this.

ExhaustedFlamingo · 24/11/2020 02:59

I’m pretty relaxed about porn but for me, any kind of personal interaction crosses a line. We all have our boundaries and for me, his behaviour is totally unacceptable and no different than cheating.

In a way though, it doesn’t matter whether it is or not. He knows you find it unacceptable and I’m sure he knows deep down that it’s not a normal part of a relationship. He’s not contrite, he got aggressive with you for calling it out. His reaction is as bad as his behaviour.

Plus it sounds like the relationship is over anyway. He doesn’t value you, there doesn’t seem to be any positives. You might have to muddle through on benefits for the next 18m but you have a qualified career to return to. Your reaction plus all you’ve said makes me think this is the push needed to get out of a deeply unsatisfactory relationship with an uncaring and disrespectful man.

You deserve so much better.

tiredofthisshit · 24/11/2020 08:19

Yes I am the same in all honesty. If I was videos, pornhub, whatever, I wouldn't care. That doesn't offend me in the way that this does.

With this it feels more personal. Seeking out another woman to have an actual interaction with. It's a step further, which in my mind will lead to something else another step along and it won't stop. If he had graduated from videos to this, what is the next way to get his kicks when this one becomes obsolete?

I was thinking of writing him a letter. Not necessarily to give to him but perhaps to get out how I really feel. Putting it down on paper might make me see how I have been really feeling all this time.

OP posts:
picklemewalnuts · 24/11/2020 08:27

It's so much easier to manage when you stop hoping he'll step up. You'll feel a lot better, you won't be thinking/worrying about how he feels, you'll be able to concentrate on yourself.

tiredofthisshit · 24/11/2020 08:35

That's exactly how I felt yesterday Pickle. I wasn't worried or anxious or stressed out at all. If anything this has probably done me a favour. It's shown me how capable I actually am. I probably knew that all along really. I knew I didn't need him.

OP posts:
GabsAlot · 24/11/2020 10:59

no its not the same as porn its a dating app

god why do people do this and try and pretend theres nothing wrong
i agree with others try and get as many documents as you can expecialy proving how much there is in the business so you can prove it

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