He says it's not cheating...

[tiredofthisshit]

Warning - long.
Big back story to this. I've name changed too because I'm embarrassed and disappointed, mostly in myself but I'll get to that.

Been married for 2 and a bit years, together for five. Two children, DD2 yrs and DS8 months and our eldest son would have been 3, he was stillborn in 2017, he was our first child.

We've been through hell and back together, losing our first baby was the worst thing to ever have to experience and it did bring us closer together which is probably why I have forgiven things in the past.

There have been indiscretions on his part before, apparently nothing physical - I found images in his phone, photos of himself exposed, which he had sent to a supposed random woman he had found through a dating chat website sort of thing. At the time of me finding them, the messages were historical and there was no clear evidence that it was a long term thing. More of a photo exchange for kicks and to wank off to.

He claimed that this was something he had always done and viewed this as porn essentially. There was no intention of ever meeting said woman and she wasn't the first one he had done this with. He viewed it as just the same as going on a website and watching a porn video. I told him I didn't think it was the same at all and I wasn't comfortable with it.
This was in 2017 when I was pregnant with our first son who passed away.

After he was born, the relationship felt as if it had evolved and become something else. I was as dependent on him as he was me, for support more than anything. It felt as if no one else in the world knew our pain and so we stuck together. He proposed to me a month or so after our son was born and I said yes. We were married the following September. Nothing has happened since then to arouse any suspicions, however I've always had it at the back of my mind and I haven't been able to trust him 100%. I think I thought he would probably be doing something similar but I just didn't really think about it. Having two young children it was perhaps too painful and inconvenient if I was to discover anything more. I don't know.

Fast forward to last night.
We decided to set up a family app sharing thing on our phones. He was due to go on a work trip and I had an app that would be of use so we set it up so he could download it for free off my account. In doing this it gave him access to see all the apps I have ever downloaded on my phone. It gave me the same for his phone.

I was having an idle look through his to see if he had anything useful. We were sat next to each other at the time, it wasn't a sneaky thing, he was looking at mine too. Anyway, I see a dating and hook up app, downloaded 2019. Then another, downloaded in 2018 (just before I had our daughter). Then a secret file app for hiding photos etc, downloaded 2 weeks after our wedding.

I asked him to explain. He got mad, said he was "sick of this" and that he was "done". More claims of it "just being porn" and that I was somehow irrational. All the things you'd expect a found out guilty party to say. He didn't really explain very well and it didn't make me feel as though it was an ok thing to be doing. I didn't feel irrational, I felt pissed off. With myself for being stupid enough to think he'd stop and with him of course for being a nasty, disrespectful piece of work.

He's gone on his work trip. We haven't spoken since. He's away for three days and I'm taking the opportunity to get a feel of what being a single mum is like because I think that's where it's headed. I'm not worried about caring for the children by myself. I do that anyway pretty much as he works practically every hour that god sends. He doesn't do any night feeds, nothing during work hours. He's present for one hour between 6-7pm and that's it. Weekends vary, he sometimes works them too.

I am a SAHM, I have been since I had my daughter 2 years ago. She doesn't go to nursery yet and I have no job. My main concerns are financial as he holds all the money. I would like to hope he wouldn't be a bastard about paying for the kids but I don't want to rely on that either. I understand there are certain benefits etc but I don't really know what I would need to apply for. I have no family. My parents are abusive bastards and we don't speak. So he is literally the only other adult I have. I do have friends but none close by.

Don't really know what the question is here. Time to pack his bags? If I forgive him he's just going to carry on doing it and making me feel worthless. He didn't care last night he was just stomping his feet and trying to make himself out to be the victim, whilst crowing "I haven't cheated".

Im at the "I don't feel anything about this" stage.

I own the house as far as I have a mortgage on it a S I got that before we met. Now we are married though, isn't half of it his?

I have nothing much else. The cars are owned by the business, the laptop, even my phone is through the business.

@tiredofthisshit

That's the question *@TheStripes* - I don't know what I would be entitled to though, I've never claimed benefits before.

For further clarification, the apps were not on his phone yesterday, it showed that they had been downloaded in 2018/2019 and had been stored in the cloud. So he's not using these particular apps now but that's not to say there's something else going on, which I'm sure there probably is.

You can go online and put figures in to see what the calculation comes out at.

Is that when he originally downloaded them because you can leave things in the cloud and come back to them time after time again. It doesn’t mean he wasn’t using them the day before you found them.

Do you have legal cover as part of your house insurance? If you do, it would cover you for some time with a solicitor to give you some specific answers.

I have first hand experience on this OP. My DH. Yes he still is my DH. Did this to me In the first two years of our relationship then into one year of our marriage.
Endless pictures, sexting. Apps where he could contact random women for what ever kicks he wanted at the time. He also told me it was “personalised porn” and I also disagreed. It is cheating! It always is when there is a third party involved. I did it for 3 years and then enough was enough for me I reached my lowest point and my self confidence and self esteem were shot. I threw him out. I thought I was well rid and I actually really really enjoyed being a single mum in fact I flourished and gained everything back I’d lost in myself . After many many months of heart ache and some very painful conversations we did end up reconciling. And you know what I don’t believe in once a cheat always a cheat anymore. Our marriage has turned out to be much much stronger and better. Do I trust him now... Yes. But it’s taken many years of hard work on both parts and quite honestly there were times where I thought is this really worth it, and I would do it again in a heart beat.
I’ll probably get flamed for this, but I do believe that relationships can survive this. But it needs 100% commitment, transparency and some difficult conversations.

Go the CAB to see what you would be entitled to (though advice can be hit and miss from advisors tbh).

There is a website - what am I entitled to - which will help you with benefit calculations.
Some divorce solicitors do an initial free session.

I have to say he sounds like the type of guy who will try to screw you in a divorce.
Is there any possibility he would agree to just leave, so that you get the house even if you don't get anything else? You could just not divorce for now which would save the cost of this. If you think he will screw you and give you nothing anyway, it may be easier if he just pisses off and leaves you to get on with things yourself.

Whether or not the house is half his is a bit of a grey area. You’ve not been married for long so possibly not. He has a business and as the Sahm I imagine you’d more likely want to get custody... or would he go for 50/50 to spite you? If the house is half his. The business is half yours. Can’t have it both ways.

I'm not sure Stripes.
I'll check.

I tried to get him to explain - I can't understand why signing up to a dating hook up site, going through all the form and process, then having to find someone's profile. Then establish a connection, then wait for a picture, how is that more convenient or better than flicking porn hub on? There has to be more to it. I'm not stupid. He couldn't give me an explanation. He just said "it's all porn" - erm, no, it's not, not in my experience.

He just said I was mental for suggesting that he might have been unfaithful how dare I that all he does is work to "keep you lot" (meaning me and the children, again another "you're lazy" dig), like I just produced all these children by myself without his input at all. He then stormed off and told me to fuck off.

I wonder if he will try to apologise or if he really means that he's done. To be honest it would be much easier if he would just go away. It would save me some effort and I don't actually think I would try to stop him.

He absolutely would not fight for custody. He doesn't want the children for longer than an hour as it is, I highly doubt he'd fight for 50/50.

Of course it is cheating.
If you were sending explicit pictures to men and on dating and hook up sites he would not think that it was ok or liken it to porn.
He'd leave you for being a cheater!

I think the possible cheating is the least of your problems here. Yours seems like a very unequal marriage and I'm concerned that you are being financially abused.

I think this might be one of those occasions where marrying has fucked you over. Sounds like he's the sort of guy that will evade paying anything and take half your house . But definitely get legal and financial advice on the quiet.

I would be planning to go back to work. Do you have a career you could go back to? If not, would he support you retraining or studying in normal times? If so, I might hang on and get ready for the workplace as part of a long term plan to exit the relationship.

Do you have any pension provision?

He checked out long ago.
Get your copies of everything ready, get some proper legal advice. If you get everything ready before you go it should be quicker.

Say nothing and just organise your life, so when the moment comes and you are ready you can deliver the news knowing you have covered all of the bases. You have children so you need to be on it.

If in the meantime you can retrain or find a job in your field, I would do so.

There is nothing left for you; only more of the same. Set yourself free and be happy. It is a cliche but true. You deserve much more than the disrespect he is showing you day in and day out.

The main issue I would have with this is that you expressed your feelings about this when you first caught him out. Whether or not he believes he is cheating is irrelevant because if he cared about your feelings and saving the relationship then he would stop. Sending one off images to faceless random women on the internet is gross but it's not an affair. Regardless, you understandably don't like it and he has ignored that and continued to do it anyway.

Stick by your judgement. The chances are this won't stop because he doesn't feel like he's done anything wrong.

Yes if you're married now I'm sorry to say half of the house is his, however you've not been married long and I would hope a judge would look fairly upon that. You should be able to buy him out hopefully at not too high a cost and come to a full and final settlement with a divorce.

It would mean a huge change for you possibly with going back to work full-time and two kids in care for you to pay for the mortgage alone and the nursery fees and kick him out.

It's either work through his cheating - which probably could be done if you have enough self-esteem to understand it's about him - not you - or else otherwise go full-time working and not see your kids so much.

An awful choice.

It sounds like it's just wank material, nothing more. He just gets off on the excitement of someone new and he's got away with it until now. Look at that actor in the news Dominic West - if they think they can, they will.

Unfortunately once you have children it's much harder to walk away, especially with young ones. I see Catherine West is staying. Good luck to her.

Watch some Ester Perel to understand infidelity more, she's a fantastic relationship therapist. It's not about you that he's cheating, it's about him being someone else. That's not to excuse it - but it's to see it for what it really is. I think people who cheat are very insecure and need that moment to feel loved and adored, not seeing that the very place that love and adoration should come from is from themselves but that's a life's fucking lifetime of learning and your DH is so far away from that journey I don't know where to begin.

but it might give you some peace to hear Ester Perel talk. Look her up on YouTube.

I'm so sorry. Was sort of in a similar boat when mine were little. I think a lot of marriages get rocky at this point as there's too much drudgery and boring life and no excitement. And there's no one to blame for this, it just is what it is.

When you discover why people cheat it's a revelation. Ester also has a podcast. It's fascinating to hear and listen to others' stories. It made me realise that humans are so horribly complicated. It's a mess frankly but we have to struggle through somehow.

But surely if he’s entitled to part of the house then you’re entitled to part of the business?

I'm a qualified veterinary nurse with over 10 years experience. The main problem I have is the childcare. As I say, my daughter doesn't go to nursery yet and due to covid, no local ones are accepting new admissions until January at the earliest, although that is not so far away now. It's something else that I will have to pay for though on potentially low income as she would attend a private nursery until we get the free hours at 3 years of age.

Oh ignore that, as a short marriage it's more likely you'll hang on to your house OK.

I don't understand the financial side of things.

He pays you a wage but doesn't claim anything for himself at all? What does he do with the money after he's paid you, then? Isn't he even paying himself the £12,500 to allow him to pay no tax? What about national insurance?

As far as the other issue's concerned, if at all possible I'd tell him to get out. It sounds as though it's a pretty short marriage so he shouldn't be entitled to anything from that.

You have 3 days to get his stuff put in bin bags and the locks changed. Job done. You and your children deserve so much better than this.

I think he makes voluntary contributions to NI but no, he takes zero wage. All the moment he earns sits in the business account, apart from the "wage" I get for bills

I'm so sorry. I'm sorry about DS1 & I'm sorry you're going through this now.

It's so hard when you find out that the person you should be able to trust is the very one acting like this. I disagree with his 'same as porn' defence the first time, but can see why you chose to tell him it's NOT & try to move past it.

However, he's definitely shown you now that he does not care how you feel

& I very much doubt he hasn't met up with anyone at all.

I KNOW it's hard to leave someone when day to day to get on & live them & they're your kids Dad and the additional connection with DS1 & all you went through.

But look at how he's acting!! Your life will be miserable if you stay with him. You'll feel all kinds of negative things about yourself, as well as not being able to trust him. He's not someone you can trust to have your back & be there for you

At some stage you will separate, honestly, it might as well be now while you're young. It's much easier to 'start over' young with small kids than in 10 years time.

I understand your worry about money, but our benefits system will support you and you can use the time to upskill to whatever career you fancy once the kids are at school.

I KNOW it's not how you pictured your life...but you have to look at where you are at and the best way forward, not how you'd like it to be. You cannot change him & sadly he's not worthy if you and your kids.

If it was me (after sobbing a lot!!). I'd (sadly) pack up his stuff and get on entitledto to start having a look at what you would be entitled to!!

I really am sorry you're going through this & don't seem to have any RL support.

We are here though! X

Sorry should have said money, not moment

Dating apps are for dating, not sending porn pics, so if he was on the usual ones he is looking to dupe someone into having an affair with him. His defensiveness is because he knows he's been caught, not because he feels he's doing nothing wrong. His nastiness and put downs are to convince himself you deserve it.

Get as much info about the business as you can and speak to a recommended lawyer who has experience in divorce where businesses are involved. You'll need a very good overview of the business accounts in order not to get shafted here. Start collecting as much paperwork as you can about your personal and business finances, get copies of everything you can and hide them. Make the most of him being out of town to do this.

@tiredofthisshit cheating doesn't start with a meet up. It's the texting, face timing.
Stop asking him why? He will come up with all the excuses he can and reason that will sound real but aren't. He does it cause he wants too.
He knows it's not simply, you will leave. You have all this added stuff to consider. And if you do leave he believes your be worse off.

This guy messaged me for two weeks while he worked away, begged me to meet. He has a gf and baby which I found out. ( he behaviour to me mirrored my ex

I'd say most the men I match with on apps having dp's. Lots tell me that do, ask to face time while they are in bed or work. It's so gross. My block list is a joke!

My ex every couple of month sext other women, he didn't get many meet up due to them not wanting to or because he got want he wanted to feel important for the night. He repeatedly claimed it was MH, but after the first time I caught him I made a plan to leave.
Took 9 months, lots more sexting from him etc, but I was fully aware that I wouldn't go back cause I planned it.

I have gone no contact for 11 months now, it got that bad at the end due to him believing I wouldn't leave,

I am so sorry to hear of the loss of your first baby and that you are going through this.

As others have said, getting some legal advice is a good idea and finding out what financial information you can is also vital.

Here’s an excellent source of advice - it’ll help you think things through,
www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/ending-a-relationship/

All the very best with your decision making. My experience of a bumpy few years is that I discovered I am made of stronger stuff than I ever realised.

Good luck.