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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

He says it's not cheating...

175 replies

tiredofthisshit · 23/11/2020 14:18

Warning - long.
Big back story to this. I've name changed too because I'm embarrassed and disappointed, mostly in myself but I'll get to that.

Been married for 2 and a bit years, together for five. Two children, DD2 yrs and DS8 months and our eldest son would have been 3, he was stillborn in 2017, he was our first child.

We've been through hell and back together, losing our first baby was the worst thing to ever have to experience and it did bring us closer together which is probably why I have forgiven things in the past.

There have been indiscretions on his part before, apparently nothing physical - I found images in his phone, photos of himself exposed, which he had sent to a supposed random woman he had found through a dating chat website sort of thing. At the time of me finding them, the messages were historical and there was no clear evidence that it was a long term thing. More of a photo exchange for kicks and to wank off to.

He claimed that this was something he had always done and viewed this as porn essentially. There was no intention of ever meeting said woman and she wasn't the first one he had done this with. He viewed it as just the same as going on a website and watching a porn video. I told him I didn't think it was the same at all and I wasn't comfortable with it.
This was in 2017 when I was pregnant with our first son who passed away.

After he was born, the relationship felt as if it had evolved and become something else. I was as dependent on him as he was me, for support more than anything. It felt as if no one else in the world knew our pain and so we stuck together. He proposed to me a month or so after our son was born and I said yes. We were married the following September. Nothing has happened since then to arouse any suspicions, however I've always had it at the back of my mind and I haven't been able to trust him 100%. I think I thought he would probably be doing something similar but I just didn't really think about it. Having two young children it was perhaps too painful and inconvenient if I was to discover anything more. I don't know.

Fast forward to last night.
We decided to set up a family app sharing thing on our phones. He was due to go on a work trip and I had an app that would be of use so we set it up so he could download it for free off my account. In doing this it gave him access to see all the apps I have ever downloaded on my phone. It gave me the same for his phone.

I was having an idle look through his to see if he had anything useful. We were sat next to each other at the time, it wasn't a sneaky thing, he was looking at mine too. Anyway, I see a dating and hook up app, downloaded 2019. Then another, downloaded in 2018 (just before I had our daughter). Then a secret file app for hiding photos etc, downloaded 2 weeks after our wedding.

I asked him to explain. He got mad, said he was "sick of this" and that he was "done". More claims of it "just being porn" and that I was somehow irrational. All the things you'd expect a found out guilty party to say. He didn't really explain very well and it didn't make me feel as though it was an ok thing to be doing. I didn't feel irrational, I felt pissed off. With myself for being stupid enough to think he'd stop and with him of course for being a nasty, disrespectful piece of work.

He's gone on his work trip. We haven't spoken since. He's away for three days and I'm taking the opportunity to get a feel of what being a single mum is like because I think that's where it's headed. I'm not worried about caring for the children by myself. I do that anyway pretty much as he works practically every hour that god sends. He doesn't do any night feeds, nothing during work hours. He's present for one hour between 6-7pm and that's it. Weekends vary, he sometimes works them too.

I am a SAHM, I have been since I had my daughter 2 years ago. She doesn't go to nursery yet and I have no job. My main concerns are financial as he holds all the money. I would like to hope he wouldn't be a bastard about paying for the kids but I don't want to rely on that either. I understand there are certain benefits etc but I don't really know what I would need to apply for. I have no family. My parents are abusive bastards and we don't speak. So he is literally the only other adult I have. I do have friends but none close by.

Don't really know what the question is here. Time to pack his bags? If I forgive him he's just going to carry on doing it and making me feel worthless. He didn't care last night he was just stomping his feet and trying to make himself out to be the victim, whilst crowing "I haven't cheated".

Im at the "I don't feel anything about this" stage.

OP posts:
FudgeDrudge · 23/11/2020 15:29

If stops paying you he will have to take his own wage and therefore won't be a zero earner.

tiredofthisshit · 23/11/2020 15:30

Yes that's true @FudgeDrudge

OP posts:
WitchesBritchesPumpkinPants · 23/11/2020 15:33

Cross posted with several of your posts.

Great that you're already a qualified vet nurse, with experience!!! Good start!! Now you need to see what there is that you could upskill in while at home with the kids.

You need a SHL (shit hot lawyer) we can probably help you find one!!! A shit hot lawyer will help you keep the house.

Good news he won't go for 50/50!!

MyMajesty · 23/11/2020 15:38

All the profits go 'into the business'? Or maybe some go into an account you don't know about?

'Why not just use porn?' I'd guess it's because he gets a kick from contacting individual women and having them respond.

'He's sick of all this' because he's been aware all along of how unhappy you'd be if you knew and feels aggrieved about how sneaky he's had to be to hide it.

Baileysandcream · 23/11/2020 15:39

OP, if I were you, I would try to find out a bit more about the business side of things if you can.

What type of business is - sole trader or limited? Is he sole director or are you also named as a director/company secretary or anything?

If the business accounts show that you are paid a monthly salary, you need to be aware of this, as it may be that according to the authorities - HMRC etc, you are officially employed. Is any NI paid on your behalf? You need to know this because if you're applying for any kind of benefits, I would imagine you'll be asked about any income you've received within the financial year.

Any solicitor acting on your behalf could delve into all of this for you, but any information you can find and take copies/photos of while he is away would be helpful for you.

Woahisme · 23/11/2020 15:40

Urgh he sounds awful OP. Sorrybtoubare going through this. I think you would be entitled to universal credit, but use a benefits calculator to work this out. It will ask for your income though so if you know what h is paying you via the business use that figure.

I think the house is a marital asset now, but it worth getting yourself some legal advice. Before you do, I would try to find out as much as possible about the business in terms of money. It sounds like he is evading tax which looks dodgy as hell.

Also if you can screen shot anything on his phone that shows he has been unfaithful I would do that.

Best of luck x

Jobsharenightmare · 23/11/2020 15:41

OP. I want to direct you to do a google search for Mumsnet thread by Coatsprotectionleague.

Several of us here supported her with advice about how to get as much money from her soon to be ex as possible, knowing that he too would be a position to hide money from her when she confronted him about his "it's only photos" cheating.

He will move his money the second you mention divorce.

I'm really sorry this has happened to you. As others have said, you will be better off without the hurt and stress of this man. One person doesn't get to decide what boundaries protect the relationship; that is a task for the couple.

m0therofdragons · 23/11/2020 15:43

Is the business registered with companies house? You’ll be able to see details that will provide rough idea re income from tax paid.

Visit entitledto.co.uk for an idea re benefits. You do not need to put up with this bs.

knittingaddict · 23/11/2020 15:48

@Woahisme

Urgh he sounds awful OP. Sorrybtoubare going through this. I think you would be entitled to universal credit, but use a benefits calculator to work this out. It will ask for your income though so if you know what h is paying you via the business use that figure.

I think the house is a marital asset now, but it worth getting yourself some legal advice. Before you do, I would try to find out as much as possible about the business in terms of money. It sounds like he is evading tax which looks dodgy as hell.

Also if you can screen shot anything on his phone that shows he has been unfaithful I would do that.

Best of luck x

I'm wouldn't put the amount he pays the op as income for benefits purposes. It's not income and op isn't earning it. The chances of him continuing to pay this amount if they break up is probably nil. The op only needs to put in income she has earned in a paid job.

Given the ages of the children, the op will not be pushed into getting a job just yet, although that's up to her.

I agree with others that you gather as much paperwork as you can and strengthen your position.

I haven't read the whole thread so I'll go and do that now and see if anything else would be helpful.

8obbingabout · 23/11/2020 15:51

What a rat bag!

Don't let him try to convince you that this is ok. Because it is not.
Him getting mad and shouting and deflecting is typical behavior from someone being caught out and trying to control how you react. He doesn't sound great to be honest. I am really sorry.

How would he feel if you had been up to the same things you have found him doing?

knittingaddict · 23/11/2020 15:51

@tiredofthisshit

I own the house as far as I have a mortgage on it a S I got that before we met. Now we are married though, isn't half of it his?

I have nothing much else. The cars are owned by the business, the laptop, even my phone is through the business.

Not half necessarily. He will probably get a share of assets, but you are the primary care giver, so could end up with a bigger share. My daughter is getting 70% for instance.
knittingaddict · 23/11/2020 15:56

I'm fairly sure that the business assets would form part of the financial settlement too op. He can't just keep money in the business and expect to ring fence it, although he may try to hide it. See if you can get a copy of the business bank account statement too.

knittingaddict · 23/11/2020 15:59

Sorry keep remembering things. It would be classed as a short marriage and that means that you may be able to keep a bigger share of the house if it was yours before the relationship/marriage.

tiredofthisshit · 23/11/2020 16:02

Thank you everyone for the advice so far.
In terms of things I should be looking for - where do I start?! What sort of documents etc should I be looking for? Do I need photocopies or is a photo of a document enough? This all feels quite overwhelming but now would be a good time to start getting things in order whilst he's not here.

OP posts:
Allergictoironing · 23/11/2020 16:02

@knittingaddict

I'm fairly sure that the business assets would form part of the financial settlement too op. He can't just keep money in the business and expect to ring fence it, although he may try to hide it. See if you can get a copy of the business bank account statement too.
This^

Business assets don't just mean the value of the buildings or equipment either, I think depending on the type of business they can include things like existing contracts with customers and client lists, and typical income.

m0therofdragons · 23/11/2020 16:10

Anything he owns - car, property, business assets.

If you can get bank statements to demonstrate income that would help. If he ever got a mortgage he’d need to show income. I assume this income would be dividends. Do you have proof of those dividend payments?

Benefits don’t take maintenance into account but they will take cash savings into consideration.

yesterdaystotalsteps123 · 23/11/2020 16:10

I'm so sorry for everything you are going through. It's good to focus on the practicalities first. But take care of your emotions. He is minimising his behaviour. As you untangle yourself from him it's important to focus on you and your life not him. My xh behaved in a similar way and when he was caught would be raging I was"overreacting" and it was just like porn. After I kicked him out I was stunned for about a week, then I used the online chat women's aid offer. Then I sorted out my finances. It's been a year and I can't tell you the difference in my mental and physical health. A man like this will destroy you and then move on, so take control, end it and get your happy life back with your DC.

Whatabambam · 23/11/2020 16:10

Tou sound brave and strong and brilliant. Don't be fooled by his anger and his childish antics to deflect the attention away from the truth. You already know the truth deep down.

He might not pay himself a wage but if he has a limited company then it's very likely that he is paying himself dividends. After all, he can't run a business without providing some sort of income.

I think you need a SHL who understands how business accounts can be manipulated to reduce liabilities including those from a divirce. You can claim Universal Credit, Child Benefit and council tax reduction plus the single person's discount. Sray strong and sending hugs

diddl · 23/11/2020 16:11

If he pays you a wage with which you pay mortgage & bills, would he have much of a claim on the house at all?

loutypips · 23/11/2020 16:13

I asked him to explain. He got mad, said he was "sick of this" and that he was "done".

He's turning it around on to you, to make you feel like you are in the wrong.
Tbh, after the first time, I wouldn't have given him another chance.

TurquoiseDragon · 23/11/2020 16:14

@Jobsharenightmare

OP. I want to direct you to do a google search for Mumsnet thread by Coatsprotectionleague.

Several of us here supported her with advice about how to get as much money from her soon to be ex as possible, knowing that he too would be a position to hide money from her when she confronted him about his "it's only photos" cheating.

He will move his money the second you mention divorce.

I'm really sorry this has happened to you. As others have said, you will be better off without the hurt and stress of this man. One person doesn't get to decide what boundaries protect the relationship; that is a task for the couple.

I remember this, some useful advice on the thread.
tiredofthisshit · 23/11/2020 16:14

I don't really know anything with regards to the wormholes he navigates running the business. I know I am a shareholder, I'm mentioned in the paper work deep down somewhere. I have been paid dividends from the company before. I don't know if that will give me much

OP posts:
QuentinWinters · 23/11/2020 16:16

Many solicitors do 30 mins free, might be worth contacting one and finding out from them what docs u need about his finances/what can be done

PatriciaPerch · 23/11/2020 16:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Unsure33 · 23/11/2020 16:27

firstly I would say he has no right to get angry with you .

If you find it unacceptable - then that's your opinions and your feelings and he is being extremely selfish and arrogant not considering them at all .
you don't trust him and I don't see how you can go on like that.

Also about the way he runs the business does not sound good at all - are you SURE an accountant is on board with that? Sounds to me like you will need a free hour with a family law solicitor .

Hope you get some good advice on benefits etc.

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