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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Still hasn't popped the question

265 replies

gettingfrustrated21 · 23/11/2020 13:08

DP bought an engagement ring well over 18 months ago. We've talked about getting married but he still hasn't popped the question. Ring still sat in its box in his cupboard.
This is odd isn't it? Given when he bought the ring. Is it a case of he's waiting for the right moment or does he have cold feet? Surely if you want to marry someone and have bought a ring, you give it to them?

OP posts:
Grobagsforever · 26/11/2020 13:46

You're going to make him more coffees?

OP my heart is breaking for you.

ChippyPickledEggs · 26/11/2020 14:36

Any proposal that happens now is going to be because he knows eventually you'll leave otherwise. Whether you go now or in six months time, if he proposes, that's why.

It's your choice, of course. And you obviously love him and want to give him that last chance. That's fair enough. But he's dragging his feet and no proposal is going to feel good now I think.

RantyAnty · 26/11/2020 14:56

You do sound lovely! You deserve much better but I understand why you're doing this. 3 of the most popular proposal dates are coming up so he really has no excuse!

How old is he?

AttilaTheMeerkat · 26/11/2020 15:00

How many chances has this man already had here?. Doing the pick me dance like this is in my view the wrong decision entirely along with being a triumph of hope over experience.

I would also suggest you read about the "sunken costs fallacy" in relationships because it could be that you're also getting bogged down by that too. It also enables people to keep on making poor relationship decisions.

Dontbeme · 26/11/2020 15:15

I know it sounds like I’m doing the ‘pick me dance’ which in a way I suppose I am, but I’m doing it under my terms. There are no other contestants. And I want this man to want to marry me, so of course I am going to make an effort with him

I hope it works out for you OP, but I fear this tactic will end up with you being broken hearted and him losing respect for you. Are you sure you are not just showing him that you will be placated with the right words with no action from him behind them? You sound so lovely and deserve better than his is offering, I would use the next few months getting myself in a financial and practical position to leave after your trial period, think about where you would like to live, to do, what will make YOU happy as a single woman and work towards that.

MacbookHo · 26/11/2020 17:02

Doing the pick me dance like this is in my view the wrong decision entirely along with being a triumph of hope over experience.

This.

Come on, gorgeous one! Time to get TOUGH. Leave him so fast that he can’t help but admire your guts. It doesn’t have to be mean or cruel. Just say a simple “These 3 years have been amazing, the best of my life, but I deserve a commitment. I’m worth a commitment.”

I know he’s been married before but that makes his current foot-dragging even more annoying, IMO. This isn’t a commitment-dodging bachelor. This is a man with a history of committing.

I fear you’ve been too nice to all these BFs and that’s why they haven’t stepped up.

Read “Why Men Marry Bitches”. Read it tonight, on your phone, in the bath.

MillieVanilla · 26/11/2020 17:04

I waited 19 years
You're fine

NataliaOsipova · 26/11/2020 17:30

And I want this man to want to marry me,

This is going to sound harsh - but this is the problem. At the moment, he pretty obviously doesn’t.

In my experience, men are actually pretty simple creatures. You don’t have to agonise over whether a man is really into you or not; if he is, it’s obvious. And if a man really thinks that you are it, “the one”, he won’t worry that he’s “not ready”. As a pp said, this isn’t a serial commitment phone; this is a man who has been married before and who is happy enough to be in a long term, cohabiting relationship.

I agree with the pp who said that the best way to get him to want to marry you is to walk away. Nothing is more likely to get him to come to his senses and realise that you’re “the one” than actually having to face the consequences of being without you. Seeing what his life is like without you there. And if he doesn’t realise that, then you are truly and honestly better off without him and getting on with your life. You deserve to be with a man who wants to marry you; if he doesn’t, he doesn’t deserve to have you.

gettingfrustrated21 · 26/11/2020 19:26

I understand what you’re saying but if I leave, I leave. Full stop. If he comes begging me to marry him it’ll be a no. Because when I go, I stay gone.
He well and truly knows now what an absolute mess he’s made. So I’m giving him a chance to right it without the drama of me going and making him beg. It’s lockdown anyway, so not like I’ve anywhere else to be right now.
I am not going to throw away all the good stuff he does over one massive thoughtless huge mega fuckup. Its not like he’s cheated on me or anything. And he does now realise, and he realises that he needs to fix this and fast.
He knows I was ready to walk away.

So before I throw everything away, and before I walk out the door I will give him this chance. If he steps up and proposes (it’d better be mind blowingly bloody good mind) I know I can be happy with this man for the rest of my life.
If he doesn’t do that, then I am fine with that and will move on and know he was just full of it. But I actually don’t think that’s the case. I think he was just a stupid idiot who didn’t think.
Men are simple creatures and sometimes they are thoughtless and stupid.
I don’t think he did this out of some mean kick to hurt me. He didn’t realise I knew about the ring. He thought he was being thoughtful by buying one that fitted and I liked without thinking about me actually assuming he was going to give it to me imminently.

OP posts:
Coriandersucks · 26/11/2020 20:20

Nah sorry it’s not going to make a blind bit of difference whether he proposes now or in six months time - if he does it you are always going to wonder whether he’s done it out of guilt.

It’s fine to say you’ve got no intention of leaving him, you certainly don’t have to justify it to any of the ltb crew here, and I don’t actually think you will leave him if he doesn’t propose because your day to day life will have to change so drastically when other than a proposal, everything is fine.

BUT you would be better off admitting that to yourself now and making peace with maybe not getting married at all, then you can just get on happily with your life, with the man you love, regardless of a fancy proposal or wedding (cos this isn’t about marriage).

lynsey91 · 26/11/2020 20:28

Well considering we are probably not really going to be out of some sort of lockdown by June I am not sure he can make the proposal mind blowingly good.

What would count as mind blowingly good anyway? I don't get why proposals are meant to be some mega production at the top of a mountain with an orchestra.

I can't even remember DH's proposal. I think he said something like "how do you feel about getting married?" That was in his parents' living room about 2 months after meeting.

Ardenon · 26/11/2020 20:34

If he does propose don't expect an easy ride to the wedding.
I just don't understand how or why you would try a cajole someone into a massive, life changing event that should be straightforward, exciting and dare I say romantic

MacbookHo · 26/11/2020 20:51

I love that line from When Harry Met Sally - “When you realise you want to spend the rest of your life with someone, you want the rest of your life to start as soon as possible.”

(He realises that after Sally stops talking to him for weeks, just sayin’. 😊)

Do read that book. Why Men Marry Bitches. It’s all in there.

timeisnotaline · 26/11/2020 21:21

Op there is an angle you are completely missing here in all this focus on will he propose. He’s been pretty colossally thick in this talk about rings and actually buying one. During your ‘ trial period’, think does he mean what he says? Is he there for me when it’s not convenient for him? Does he visit my aged relative he hates with me? Or does he have communication failures like the wedding one because he hasn’t really thought of you like a person, just an object belonging to him who needs a certain amount of nice words to keep his life comfortable and convenient?

AttilaTheMeerkat · 27/11/2020 09:36

gettingfrustrated21

re your comment:-
"He well and truly knows now what an absolute mess he’s made. So I’m giving him a chance to right it without the drama of me going and making him beg. It’s lockdown anyway, so not like I’ve anywhere else to be right now.
I am not going to throw away all the good stuff he does over one massive thoughtless huge mega fuckup. Its not like he’s cheated on me or anything. And he does now realise, and he realises that he needs to fix this and fast.
He knows I was ready to walk away.
So before I throw everything away, and before I walk out the door I will give him this chance"

You did not walk away though and even though he has not cheated here (you write that as some sort of consolation) that does not make what he has done here any better either. And no, he still does not realise also because you have not shown him loss, the loss of you.

This is really the sunken costs fallacy and it basically causes people to keep on poor relationship decisions. You are being further bogged down here by sunk costs. You're merely avoiding things and you are not being true to your own self.

There are two ways to understand this process, both involving avoidance. One is an avoidance of disappointment or loss when something doesn’t work out. When a relationship doesn’t succeed, especially after a long period, especially after many shared experiences and especially after developing a hope that the relationship would be a good one, it is a loss. It is a loss of what might have been and an acknowledgement that a part of one’s life has been devoted to this endeavour.

Another angle to evaluate is that focus on “sunk cost” creates a distraction from one’s inner truth. The sentence often goes like, “I’ve already invested to much, so I can’t notice my thoughts and feelings that are telling me to end or change this relationship.”

This is a type of insidious defense against noticing yourself. You enter into a neglectful relationship with yourself which divorces you from your inner thoughts and the quiet feelings that might guide you in your life. In other words, thinking about what already has been may prevent you from deciding what you want your life to be.

The key is to clear away the distractions to rational and emotional clarity. Getting stuck in your “sunk cost” prevents you from this clarity, whether in your relationships or your investments.

What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up?. I cannot help either but feel there are some layers here that need to be unpicked and otherwise unlearnt.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 27/11/2020 09:42

"Men are simple creatures and sometimes they are thoughtless and stupid".

Actually they are not all simple, thoughtless and stupid - but this man of yours certainly is. Why try and move past thoughtless and stupid behaviour as well?.

What basis is there for marriage anyway given your relationship with each other to date?.

OhDearMuriel · 27/11/2020 13:44

He will not respect you for staying, but he will think that he easily got away with it.

Respectabitch · 27/11/2020 13:47

I hope this works out for you, but what you're proposing just sounds so sad and like slow, painful soul-death.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 27/11/2020 13:56

Men are simple creatures and sometimes they are thoughtless and stupid.

I'm sorry but this is the kind of silly statement that allows men to blame bad behaviour on their sex rather than their character.

They aren't more 'simple' than women, they are socially conditioned in a way that allows them to behave more selfishly without judgement.

Good men (which there are plenty of) don't use this social conditioning to their advantage, they do the right thing regardless of being able get away with more selfish behaviour in the eyes of society.

I'm not saying this directly about your other half either way, but the kind of statement you made is similar to 'boys will be boys' being used in defence of shitty behaviour by young men.

Taikoo · 27/11/2020 13:59

Awful.
I would have ditched him long ago.
You can do a lot better than this.

MacbookHo · 27/11/2020 15:22

Men are simple creatures

They certainly are about marriage. If they want to marry you they WILL propose, and usually quite soon. Usually within a year.

If they stall, faff, or make excuses, it means they don’t want to marry you (but don’t want to hurt you with the truth, or risk you dumping them).

SnowdogFarts · 27/11/2020 15:47

So if he gives you a big grand gesture proposal you'll sweep the nagging doubt you now have on his commitment to you under the carpet? Nah, you're settling for less than you're worth. If he wanted to propose he would have by now, something was stopping him from giving that engagement ring to you and I'm not sure I could feel any genuine joy or contentment if a proposal then materialised after knowing he'd spent so long 'making sure'. I think after that kind of conversation I'd be evaluating where I was in the relationship and wouldn't even consider accepting a proposal until I knew for sure that it was meant and not as a means to pacify me.

Good luck with whatever you do.

BitOfANameChange · 27/11/2020 16:12

"He well and truly knows now what an absolute mess he’s made. So I’m giving him a chance to right it without the drama of me going and making him beg. It’s lockdown anyway, so not like I’ve anywhere else to be right now.
I am not going to throw away all the good stuff he does over one massive thoughtless huge mega fuckup. Its not like he’s cheated on me or anything. And he does now realise, and he realises that he needs to fix this and fast.
He knows I was ready to walk away.
So before I throw everything away, and before I walk out the door I will give him this chance"

Actually, he knows you didn't walk away, so there's a very high chance he'll reckon you suck up anything he says/does. Because so far that is what you demonstrated to him.

Others have mentioned the Sunken Costs Fallacy, and this really does apply to relationships.

I still don't believe this man will marry you. Oh, he might come out with a proposal, but that means nothing unless he's immediately into planning, setting dates, etc.

I was naive when I met my ex. He proposed withing a few months, yes, but we never got to arranging the wedding, he always had an excuse. I wasted 30 years on that arsehole. (I do have my lovely DC, but ex is abusive and I wish I'd left much, much earlier and found someone who actually cared about me.)

nowishtofly · 27/11/2020 19:52

If everything is as you perceive OP he will have had a bit of a fright and will make the grand gesture soon. I am a bit jaded like many posters here and I think he won't. When you told him you'd been waiting for 18 months having seen the ring, he should have been saying it's just a timing thing, I never found the moment, but of course I love you and of course we are getting married, what sort of wedding should we have? Etc etc. Instead you're left with this wishy washy nonsense where he has to be sure. Which means you'll never now be sure if he really wants to get married even if he does propose soon. Anyone in this situation would be thinking 'did he do that just to keep me around'?

Waiting before you make your next move gives you time to get your head around moving on. Think about what you really want and need and deserve in a husband, if you put your needs higher, it is likely to mean that you will move on, even if he does propose in the end. I suspect he has blown it. It should take a pretty spectacular proposal and display of love and commitment to convince you after recent events. Don't settle for less than that.

skycloudwind · 27/11/2020 20:31

@AttilaTheMeerkat

gettingfrustrated21

re your comment:-
"He well and truly knows now what an absolute mess he’s made. So I’m giving him a chance to right it without the drama of me going and making him beg. It’s lockdown anyway, so not like I’ve anywhere else to be right now.
I am not going to throw away all the good stuff he does over one massive thoughtless huge mega fuckup. Its not like he’s cheated on me or anything. And he does now realise, and he realises that he needs to fix this and fast.
He knows I was ready to walk away.
So before I throw everything away, and before I walk out the door I will give him this chance"

You did not walk away though and even though he has not cheated here (you write that as some sort of consolation) that does not make what he has done here any better either. And no, he still does not realise also because you have not shown him loss, the loss of you.

This is really the sunken costs fallacy and it basically causes people to keep on poor relationship decisions. You are being further bogged down here by sunk costs. You're merely avoiding things and you are not being true to your own self.

There are two ways to understand this process, both involving avoidance. One is an avoidance of disappointment or loss when something doesn’t work out. When a relationship doesn’t succeed, especially after a long period, especially after many shared experiences and especially after developing a hope that the relationship would be a good one, it is a loss. It is a loss of what might have been and an acknowledgement that a part of one’s life has been devoted to this endeavour.

Another angle to evaluate is that focus on “sunk cost” creates a distraction from one’s inner truth. The sentence often goes like, “I’ve already invested to much, so I can’t notice my thoughts and feelings that are telling me to end or change this relationship.”

This is a type of insidious defense against noticing yourself. You enter into a neglectful relationship with yourself which divorces you from your inner thoughts and the quiet feelings that might guide you in your life. In other words, thinking about what already has been may prevent you from deciding what you want your life to be.

The key is to clear away the distractions to rational and emotional clarity. Getting stuck in your “sunk cost” prevents you from this clarity, whether in your relationships or your investments.

What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up?. I cannot help either but feel there are some layers here that need to be unpicked and otherwise unlearnt.

Very nicely explained!