Dating Thread 196 - Winter Wonderland Walks

[Dancerinthemoonlight]

The Rules:

1. The first rule about the dating thread is don't talk about it with people you're dating.
2. Develop a thick skin.
3. Do not invest emotionally too soon.
4. It's all BS until it actually happens.
5. Trust your gut instinct.
6. People vanishing, lying & being generally weird is not your fault.
7. Know your worth.
8. If it's not fun, stop.
9. Loo update is mandatory.

10. No dating the thread. 11. Treat others as you'd like to be treated 12. Any relationship you have that could get ruined by having a conversation about your feelings, standards and/or expectations wasn't really stable enough to begin with 13. The things you choose to ignore/ tolerate now are the reasons you will break up in the future 14. OLD can get very time consuming. Keep doing other activities you enjoy.

Optional: Please give your irons (potential dates you are talking to) nicknames like Mr Scottish. Initials are allowed (Mr S) when you are an item

Anyone read 'the rules'?

@TheCatWithTheHat I think your outfit sounds perfectly nice and normal, but also remember just because one date judges on clothes to her own (subjective) taste, not all will so it's hard to gauge. I am personally put off by men who are TOO image conscious, and me and my male BFF (aka once an iron called Mr Media) didn't fancy each other because he found me too casual and I thought his obsession with image was a bit much. We are great mates and take the piss out of each other about it now but didn't click romantically.

The extra weight would be more of a deal breaker for me - but then I'm a gym person so probably have dysmorphia about what constitutes 'normal' due to all the personal trainers I know! But it never does any harm to think about fitness, especially post Christmas!

@Eesha and @lovellost - exes can cast a long shadow can't they? If I am not careful and have a bit too much information about someone I find myself stalking their ex-wives on Facebook and thinking 'what does she have that I don't?' because I feel like they had a 'proper' relationship with them and were deemed 'worthy' whereas I was consigned to the 'casual, for sex and sympathy' category. But then it is also ridiculous to speculate on a relationship someone had before they met you, and to ignore the fact that they have split up now so it wasn't perfect was it? And quite likely one or the other of them behaved appallingly at some point.

It is really hard when they are still enmeshed in their old lives though, either practically, emotionally, or both. I am still looking for a man with no baggage. (or personality disorders!) I'm not sure how many exist after 40 or so, so I guess it is a question of what is tolerable to you.

@DudefromThatLondon excellent point re: red/green flags. Red flags are (should be) deal breakers but anyone can fake green flags for 3 months. I'm still down with the note-taking idea from @Ruralbliss - though I think if I had taken notes this year it would have made for really depressing reading and made me question my own sanity in retrospect!

@WeWantTheFinestWines sorry you are finding the apps hard but yeh, maybe a good time for a break with Christmas and everything. I agree with you, just before I paused on them everyone seemed very dull and monosyllabic, (or pervy and love-bomby - no middle way), and since then I have been tempted to look at Facebook dating and it is the same old faces! Maybe 2021 will see them buck their ideas up

@UtterSocks thanks - and yes, I think she was a little unrealistic in expecting me to be in a suit and tie for a walk and coffee, but going forward I'll probably go for smarter jeans, and ditch the trainers - although I don't tend to wear smart shoes much due to an old injury that makes it uncomfortable for long periods of time. Funnily enough, she was Eastern European - in my experience, they seem to have higher expectations of the level of effort a guy needs to put in to a first date.

I'm not exactly chubby, but before March I was going to the gym 3 times a week so the last 9 months have seen me go back up to a 34" waist. I no longer fit in all the nice clothes I treated myself to after my breakup 18 months ago, so that's my incentive for going back to my pre-lockdown weight.

It's interesting you say you're still looking for a man in his 40s with no baggage or personality disorders. I would say that describes me, but the fact I'm struggling to meet someone suggests otherwise! I sometimes wonder what people would say about me if the dating apps had a "rate your date" feature where they could give feedback!

As for exes - I find quite a few women I speak to still have contact with, or talk about their exes. I can understand it when children are involved, but I find it slightly odd when they are still friends and there's nothing to tie them together. I've been bitten in the past a few times by women I've dated who have gone back to an ex, so it's something that makes me feel uncomfortable.

It does seem to be a hard time for dating though - people seem to be using this post-lockdown time to catch up with friends, and also avoid any risk if they're planning on seeing family for Christmas. I suspect a lot of people will put this on hold until the new year.

@UtterSocks Personally I think I'm jealous of the good times last year that they had, lots of varied Xmas celebrations plus meeting the parents after 6 months. Here I am, struggling to even see each other during lockdown, no evenings out whatsoever, plus one situation after another with him! I feel like I deserve a break really! He's a great person and I do adore him, it's just my insecurities really.

@UtterSocks my logs tell me I've been unheeding of early red flags and then feel surprise when a romance ends in tears weekend or months later.

Head wobbling continues as cannot afford to embark on any more emotionally expensive dalliances in the vain hope they turn into something more solid and long lasting.

I'm drawing a line under being under cautious and allowing the good rules to roll despite 🚩🚩🚩wafting in my face.

Winter + pandemic is perfect time to gird loins and get used to being great without someone to text/phone/shag and look forward to a lower quantity but higher quality of connections in the future.

(Although having said that I'm finding myself agreeing to meeting a potential iron who doesn't drive and lives miles away - having a car is high on the list of must-haves for me so if I can't even politely bin off at this early no-no I'm not sure what hope there is for me when the bad boys with heavenly pheromones take me out despite having 🚩tattooed all over them. I clearly am my own worst enemy)

@Mayzee I think of lovebombing by excessive praise/compliments/gifts/declarations when the person has no knowledge of who we really are, so they are just going through some pantomime thing that they think we want. I'm not sure whether I can judge that women lovebomb or not. I've experienced maybe some over-committal and then pullback in dating and I think that's kind of normal enthusiasm so wouldn't call it lovebombing. I'd go so far as to say if we can't show some enthusiasm for someone and their potential with us without it being treated with suspicion, the fault lies within us, rather than them. On my side I tend to keep those hopes under wraps until I've got to know someone, and then of course their not fully returned enthusiasm may have waned.

good times* to roll. Not rules.

Can anyone help with a thanks but no thanks wording?! I had been chatting to someone and we moved to WhatsApp around the same time as I started chatting to Mr TourGuide. He initially tried to steer to sexy messages but stopped when I didn’t engage. I’m sure he wants casual but at this stage I have no intention of pursuing anything with him. Typically he texts good morning every day, checks in during the day or evening - all I’d want for an iron I was interested in! He’s a bit ‘what you doing now’ though which is tiresome. With everything going on with my daughter I don’t have the headspace, have deleted apps and if things don’t progress with Mr TourGuide, then I’m taking a break too.
I was tempted to just block but I couldn’t do that to someone so I want to say in a nice way that I don’t want to chat anymore - is that even possible? I don’t think he will be bothered tbh

@Mayzee something like 'Hi XXXX, I've decided to stop dating for the foreseeable future so i'm just letting you know I won't be responding anymore. Good luck in your search'

(prob a bit harsh but don't want him thinking he can just 'wait for you')

Aw @Eesha it is a pretty bleak time for anyone dating isn't it? I admire your strength and resolve in keeping positive about Mr Yoga. I'd just be off swiping again as it's become a compulsion with me not to focus on one person after what happened last time! But then I pick untrustworthy men and will probably die alone

@Ruralbliss yep, sounds like me! I'm already chatting to Mr Campervan who has monstrous baggage, Mr Muscle who I honestly suspect is a pervert and now Mr Penthouse who I'm pretty convinced is just after a shag (and I already have a FB) but I am not really considering meeting any of them. Just not good at politely saying Fuck Off. And I like having a plan b, c and d. (looking forward to @Mayzee's responses on the polite brush off vs ghosting issue). and they occasionally amuse me...

Mr Ginger is still keen and messaging regularly / wanting to meet up - but we are both so busy and his home situation so knotty that I'm pulling back for now. I keep reminding myself what it was like to be with someone who was still SO enmeshed with his ex-wife/family issues and thinking I should quit while I am ahead, even though I may be looking a gift horse in the mouth. And I am still a bit miffed that he lied to me/misled me at first. I get why he did but I don't like it.

Meanwhile Mr Local continues to be a hot, sexy pirate - and also continues to have zero interest in me outside of Tuesday nights! Which is fine and perhaps all I can manage (and at least he doesn't bore on and on about his fucking exes. Or anything really).

I sometimes wonder what people would say about me if the dating apps had a "rate your date" feature where they could give feedback!
FabSwingers has this, and it makes for a fascinating read . When I'm feeling down I'll read back over my verifications, because they are all so complimentary! (Fab verifications are always complimentary mind you- unless someone were to turn out a proper wrong'un I suppose- which did result in Mr Shipwreck and I going to a truly terrible sex party once. It was straight out of Mike Leigh. I had asked a couple on Fab if it was good, and they hadn't felt they could be rude...)

Wow mayzee and uttersocks- I am so rude compared to you! I'll just stop messaging if I don't want to talk to someone any more! (Not if I've met them, obviously).

Ruralbliss Typically, what kind of red flags have you discerned on first acquaintance that come back to bite you on the bum subsequently?

@UtterSocks im giving it till the end of the year so that will be 6 months together. That should be a good place to see whether things are moving in the right direction.

@eesha I understand where you’re coming from, covid has made new relationships so hard this year. I have been with Mr R for 19 months now and he still sometimes mentions his previous ex who he only went out with for about a year. It brings up my insecurities that I’m a boring mum and his previous girlfriend had no kids so they had an exciting social life. Whenever I say ‘shall we go to xxx or yyy?’ He often says ‘oh yes I used to go there with ex’ and it really pisses me off. She was also quite abusive and even ended the relationship by ghosting him so I think he is still angry although he says he is over her. I have managed to have a few dates to places they didn’t go and this will be our first Christmas together (last year the dc had only just met him so was too soon) and so he will have new memories with me. We are planning weekends away in 2021 and discussing museums and other places we’d like to go so we are planning to do more together.

One thing I have noticed - and I don’t read all the threads because they move too fast so apologies if this is wrong - but you don’t seem to have much fun. In the first lockdown I hated being apart from Mr R and he was very lonely but we found ways of having fun - playing games on house party, snapchat, chess, Netflix party and at one point I looked into an online panic room. I do know how hard it is and hope you make it through this covid break.

@stealthninjamummy Lovely to see you and great that you are still with Mr R. Thank you for writing! TBH when we are together, we have the best times and it's wonderful. What we have had to navigate mostly is his autism which makes me feel a bit like when I'm out of sight, I'm out of mind. When we speak, I feel confident again but he really doesn't seem to feel this compulsion to chat to me even though he says he misses me. He actually worries that he won't be able to keep his hands off me so his answer is not meeting at all!!! If he wasn't autistic, I would think he was playing me but I know he isn't doing this. He almost compartmentalises me.

My issue is I'm sensitive and I need the reassurance that I'm missed and desired etc and I think he's missing that chip. I know he was deeply affected by his long term ex and he has told me he feels emotionally unavailable but we have still pursued things as we do feel the connection.

A good example of an issue is him mentioning his ex in passing plus his lovely Xmas last year whereas when I invited him before, he said he felt Xmas was like groundhog day where he would have great memories and then things would fall apart so I didn't press it. I felt sad after hearing about his great past so I cut the call short last night. I then called back and texted that I only left because I felt like we haven't had a chance to make good memories and that makes me feel really sad. I haven't had any response since, so it's 24hrs now. He must have read it, then forgotten to reply and then got sidetracked.

@crackofdoom the recurring red flag that was seen on all first dates with all irons that progressed into something chunky and then inevitably crashed/burnt or faded out was the one I will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ignore again. Never.

It is....

A complete lack of curious questioning on the part of the iron.
(Bastards)

Stupid me for not spotting this pattern earlier.

I blame my dysfunctional relationship with my bad dad (he stopped talking to me age 11 even though I lived under same roof for another 6 years)

Anyhoo. Never again will I meet someone who doesn't do or isn't interested in two-way dialogue and curiosity on initial phone date. And if they slip through the net to first date I will be watching fir this.

I even said to one of my later irons (lockdown #1 romance) ahead of meeting "You'd better not be like all the others and not know how to hold a decent convo by not asking Qs..." (oh goodness no not me at all came the answer)
I'll let you guess how that played out.

Fuck that. No Qs = dire and instant binning. I'm going to enjoy telling them too.
The test will be when they are as hot, tall, cool & nice smelling as Mr VW. I didn't apply new standards to him because of this and unsurprisingly it fizzled 8 weeks later when his low level of interest waned to zero.

👍

MrC reunion scheduled for tomorrow pm

Mixture of excitement and nerves not helped by tense last day at temp
job.

Communication has been good - was nervous trying to gauge how long it would take for him to settle back in

You know when you’re trying to assess as how much is acceptable practical stuff and how much is HJNTIY?

he got back Monday night and tbh I was feeling a bit jittery - he was sending loads of “drunk at airport flirty messages” on his way home on Monday

And I find this kind of communication not great - I prefer thoughtful messages rather than impulsive ones

as impulsive ones tend to get hopes up then burn out in the cold light of day?

But message first thing yesterday (ok maybe “I’m doing my postal std test straight away” could be a bit more romantic but the thought was there )

He instigated a phone call last night, and I’m seeing him tomorrow. He’s suggested ordering an Uber for me but I’ll walk or bus it if the weather is ok.

I messaged him just now saying I was nervous but if we just have a drink and a cuddle in bed I’ll consider that a win.

As in my experience with long distance things it’s easy to think you’ll have some amazing multiple orgasmic perfect romantic star-crossed reunion

but actually you’re just getting used to each other again so need to have low expectations.

I’ll be a bit daring/brave and if things go well I’ll leave some stuff at his

and next meet I’ll realistically HAVE to get some study/wfh set-up at his as I’m snowed under so I’ll ask him to move some things for me.

(we previously discussed/confirmed this arrangement by chat but of course long-distance chat is cheap)

Also speaking of long awaited packages. I got my burgundy nighty set from eBay.

Two out of three items are quite slick and attractive on me.

One looks like my nans curtains turned into a kimono .

It’s been SO long since I’ve had to look cute at home in loungewear so I’m currently scouring my wardrobe looking for things beyond a bobbly fleece to wear at home for casual “in” dates.

I’ll take the posh sports trousers he got for my birthday to wear around the flat and so he can see them on.

Ps sometimes I put a hat on to complete the home bobbly fleece look. MrC has been complimentary but I’m not sure that would continue given that look

@Eesha you clearly feel a connection with MrYoga and that’s worth something, but also be mindful of your own feelings here - yours matter just as much as his?

I’m on the spectrum and can be very perceptive and thoughtful in some ways but socially awkward in others

but that still doesn’t mean another party has to do all the emotional work, or excuse not replying to messages or me virtually ignoring them or telling them I’m emotionally unavailable?

After a weird upbringing, I can feel embarrassed by authentic displays of affection from other people but I’ve had to change and learn to be nice or do conventional mainstream things because I want nice mainstream relationships or friendships?

I think putting a time limit on things is a good plan.

You could always keep him as a background contact if you want to see how things pan out (and it’s not easy to lose your hope things might pan out well with him eventually).

but be open to gradually meeting/chatting with others.

@Bunkbedpeople hes openly told me we are in a relationship and actually when I flagged about effort made, he was actually aghast that I thought he didn't do much. I actually don't think he realises. A friend of mine said he couldn't be that interested in me if he could go days without contact but when I mentioned it, he didn't realise.

In all honesty, I'm so into him that I don't want anyone else but I just need to see how things go. In person it's wonderful and we are meeting this weekend. Hopefully I'll get a chance to say more.

@Eesha Well I don’t know about you but it’s got slightly warmer where I am so not bad for meeting long awaited dates! enjoy

@eesha have you always needed this reassurance or is it a result of your previous relationships? Likewise do you think he is just temporarily missing that chip and he will get better at suiting your needs?

I ask because I went through such extreme emotions last year that really weren’t me. I needed a lot of reassurance and there were maybe two or three times where Mr R seemed to cool and looking back I can see that he was busy and maybe he was less invested than me at the start and / or so insecure he thought I was just having fun with him as the first man after my marriage broke up.

Anyway a year later and the me who is secure is back. I started reading The Hidden Chimp book recommended by mrdrummer and that helped to understand why I was having negative thoughts. Also I think I just needed time to know that he wasn’t going to leave me like my ex and if I don’t hear from him now for 24 hours I don’t mind. At the same time Mr R has changed his communication style to suit mine more so maybe we’ve both adapted.

I would be concerned about the 24 hours of no contact if you’ve told him he upset you. I would say that my ex is probably on the spectrum as am I a little. This has been a realisation for us both in the last five years as a result of having dc with ASD. It’s made me really question myself and how I communicate with people. I am having to teach my children how to read people / communicate while realising it’s not something I’m very good at myself. In the past I have often been blunt or insensitive and if someone commented on it I certainly wouldn’t forget about it or get sidetracked. I would apologise immediately even if I didn’t understand quite what I’d said or done. So I think not contacting you for 24 hours is crap, whether he has autism or not, and I would be saying that to him the next time I see him.