My husband is miserable because he thinks our marriage isn't working. I was happy until he said this...

[IGJ10]

I've been married to my husband for 2 and a bit years - it's my first marriage, his second. I love him to bits. Around a year ago, I had some issues with trusting him - I found some excessively flirty/sexual messages with some of his longstanding female friends on his phone. He was open about the fact that he is very flirty with some of his old female friends because it helps his self esteem (which is painfully low - he has often questioned whether he's good enough for me and expressed feelings of disgust about himself). He let me have full access to his phone and changed the way he interacted with these friends, but I felt betrayed that even after we'd married he still needed that validation from other females. I can be honest and say I went from a confident, independent woman to a bit of an emotional mess. Initially I managed to deal with this quite well and we were very honest with each other. At the same time (earlier this year), he started a new job and a member of his team who is very young and pretty has been texting him a lot. And he responded - again, whilst not crossing the line officially (messages were mostly about work) there was a very flirty overtone and when I saw the messages I flipped out. Whilst he has, once again, amended the nature of his messages with her (and he shows me them when I ask), I've met this girl and it's obvious she's besotted with him and gives his ego a massive boost. He claims he feels just friendship towards her and I've accepted that and we've carried on as normal. I haven't asked to see any of his messages for 6 months.

A few weeks ago he told me he wasn't sure about our future, he feels unhappy and has been feeling like he's going through the motions. This was a shock to me. Particularly as he said he'd actually been feeling this way for well over a year (long before I saw the first bunch of flirty messages). I'm aware that my paranoia and trust issues affected him but I felt I'd resolved them and we were getting on an even keel. We've been talking about buying a house and starting a family. I asked him today if he has feelings for that girl and he said "I don't know. Possibly. I don't know what I feel or why I feel." He said he loves me. I asked him what's wrong with the marriage and he said he doesn't know. Despite everything, I've shown him total trust, even after what we went through. I am confused. We are hopefully going to start counselling but any pearls of wisdom would be appreciated. Apologies that this is so long.

[quote IGJ10]@Zolaanna
With regards the work colleague, I noticed he talked about her a bit and I just had that funny feeling. So I checked his messages and there they all were. The thing is he never tried to hide it because he doesn't really perceive it as anything other than an ego boost[/quote]
So, not only is he hurting you with these messages,he is using this colleague to stroke his ego when he is well aware she has feelings for him? Pretty shitty behaviour all round. You deserve better

Don’t even bother with counselling he’s a cheater and they don’t change, your heartbroken of course you but imagine how worse five years down the line with maybe children, a joint house, get out while you can and on the divorce papers mention while married he likes to flirt with 0ther women, . Hugs💐💐💐💐💐

I’m sorry op, but he’s playing you. Once they make the statement it’s game over, now he’s just trying to save face before he goes. So he can say I tried, I even went to counselling, but I can’t magic the happy back.

So he can then go and chase the next female.

I’m sorry, this isn’t some form of mental illness, it’s not low self esteem, depression, or anything like that, he’s a guy that likes the thrill of the chase, who wants lots of women, and he’s not going to get it if he stays with you.

He’s already gone, I’m sorry,

I think this sums up my greatest fear - that despite counselling he'll never be able to tell me what is really wrong (either he doesn't know or can't admit it) and it could be related to his need to have emotional/sexual gratification from other women and that this can never change.

OP think of all the attention and importance and control in having your partner and a counsellor working so hard to get you to explain what is really wrong, what you really want? If you haven't read any of the chump lady articles, I really recommend them, particularly the ones about cake. www.chumplady.com

I think he is hoping you will agree to a separation - he will go off and give this girl a go and if it works he'll be off, if it doesn't he'll come back to you. It isnt all about him - it's about you and your feelings. How can you love someone who treats you like this?

You need to stop focusing on him saying that there is "something not quite right" in the marriage because he doesn't genuinely think this. He's saying it because he wants to have sex with someone else and it's his get out of jail free card. He's trying to make you feel responsibility for his potential actions so that when he cheats he can say to you (and others) "well the marriage was in a bad place" therefore implying you were also responsible for the deterioration of the marriage and his cheating. It gives him an open door to return (once he's had his fun) because rather than blaming him 100% you start questioning your own role in his cheating, and it makes him look less like the bad guy to your family and friends as you were also responsible for the marriage breakdown. It's sneaky and nasty.

So please, stop focusing on what he's said and start looking at his actions. This is not a man who will make you happy.

[quote IGJ10]@veryfuckingpeeved
Thank you. And I'm sorry that you have had to go through this/are going through this too. I think this sums up my greatest fear - that despite counselling he'll never be able to tell me what is really wrong (either he doesn't know or can't admit it) and it could be related to his need to have emotional/sexual gratification from other women and that this can never change. I want to hold onto the hope that things can change but I also want to be a realist and accept what is possibly staring me in the face.[/quote]
Thanks, it's rotten to go through. I completely understand what you're saying because I was in the same place. But the problem is, he can't tell you what the problem is because there isn't a problem with the relationship per se. There is a problem with him, and as it's a really massive problem that prevents him from treating his romantic partners well, he really should have solved it before he embarked on a marriage. Himself. Because it's not your responsibility to support him through this with counselling etc, you are the one who need support! He would be like this no matter what the relationship was like.

The only reason he is suggesting counselling is so he can say “he tried” its to save his face not to save your marriage.

You asked if he had feelings for this girl, and he replied ‘I don’t know’. To me, that means ‘yes’, because if he didn’t, he would have said ‘no’.

Really sorry you're going through this OP, it's so unfair - you can go through all sorts of attempts to fix this marriage/relationship, but sadly I think that ultimately it is over and all those attempts will just be delaying the inevitable.
If he really cared about you, he wouldn't behave like this. I'm so sorry OP. Being alone is better than being with someone who treats you like this.

@veryfuckingpeeved

I have a horrible suspicion you're onto something. I said to him today that I think he may always have had issues that needed sorting, right from when we met (and before) and that the problem could be his perspective, not he actual relationship. He admits that I've been a 'good wife' and supportive of him. And perhaps this was inevitable but I didn't read the signs early enough. I really want to support him through counselling and I know I need some myself. I think the question I ask myself is "is it too late?"

@Egghead68

Kick him out. But you won’t.

This.

And you will regret it.

He's with you precisely because you are nice and will be his doormat because you think you should give him a chance and you should 'at least try' with the councilling.

He gets you to run around after him whilst he goes off doing what he wants whilst telling you he's not sure just to keep you on the hook and 'if we just try a little more'.

You haven't got the luxury of time for that. And it will blow up in your face.

Precisely because you are a good person who wants to see the good in him.

He's not committed in the long term. And he's told you that.

There’s a reason why his first marriage ended , and it’s all his fault.
Don’t be sucked into his games , he really isn’t worth it !

There are just some people who need constant validation. It can take many forms but in men one of the most common forms is cheating, emotional or physical.

The validation of one woman (their wife/partner) is not and never will be enough. He'll put her through the wringer as she tries and tries (and fails) to 'make him feel good about himself'. She'll put herself (and any children) second to be sure that he knows he's 'the best' and the focus of the whole family. But it will never be enough, he will always seek that 'second' (or third) opinion' from another woman, whether it be in a physical affair or in an emotional one. And in the end, he will destroy her self esteem by blaming her for his affairs because she didn't 'make him feel loved' (or some other emotional blackmail bullshit). And her emotional shipwreck will also stroke his ego, as will the heartache he leaves behind in these 'other women' (fools that they are) when he refuses to leave his wife for them. It's all fuel for his ego.

If he wants to seek counseling to figure out what his problems are, fine. Let him do it on his own to fix himself. You don't need to be there to 'help'. His point right now for couple's counseling would be to find ways to use the sessions to manipulate you into putting up with his behavior or to reinforce the need for you to 'make him better'. He doesn't want to lose his 'home comforts' and his steady source of 'emotional reinforcement'.

My advice is to get off this roller coaster before it gets any worse. You're young, no children, and no property to haggle over. Get out and find someone who deserves you and understands what love really is.

@IGJ10

I think one of things I'd appreciate a perspective on is the fact that he feels somethings isn't right (preceding his flirtations and my trust issues) but doesn't know what it is, even though he loves me. Have you ever felt like this or been in a relationship with someone who has felt this way? He's keen to try counselling as a way to figure this bit out as it's hard to know where to start without identifying the underlying issues.

"the fact that he feels somethings isn't right" - are you sure this is an actual fact?

He has SAID that he feels something isn't right. That doesn't mean he actually feels it. It is quite common for people to rewrite history to align with what they want to do. So you get the 'I always felt...' 'I've felt for some time that ...' 'Ever since ...' announcements. It's really common.

My take on it is that your husband's self esteem issues seems to require constant stroking of his ego. Hence his permanent flirtyness with every female with a pulse. I doubt his much-younger-than-him colleague was not flirted with from Day 1. Being married to such an emotion-drain is not for the faint-hearted. Or anyone, really.

His behaviour is why you have trust issues - he cannot be trusted. You are telling yourself he hasn't been unfaithful, but frankly it's only a matter of time. Think of it like a drug - as he accommodates to his drug (ego stroking) he needs to up his dosage to get the same hit.

Being married to this man is bad for your physical and mental health. He has already emotionally checked out of the marriage. He's still physically there because he's waiting for you to do the Pick Me Dance - because it would stroke his ego. For a while. Then he'll need something stronger. Save yourself now - divorce him and give yourself the opportunity to heal. Staying in this marriage will only damage you more .

Oh, and as for being "keen to try counselling" - of course he is. Him being the centre of the counsellor's attention is quite the ego stroke. That's the aim, not resolution of his issues.

And perhaps this was inevitable but I didn't read the signs early enough. I really want to support him through counselling and I know I need some myself. I think the question I ask myself is "is it too late?"

I think you’ve misunderstood the poster. He’s not ill. He’s not going to be “cured” there is nothing to be too late for.

He’s just bored and wants to move onto the next woman. He thinks he can trade up to a younger model. You can’t change who he is. You can’t cure it, there is nothing to support him through,

It’s like telling me you want to support me through being five foot eight. I am five foot eight, no amount of counselling is going to change that fact. It’s what I am. Just like his low boredom threshold and desire to be with different women is who he is.

There is nothing to fix.

The only reason he is suggesting counselling is so he can say “he tried” its to save his face not to save your marriage

This

He didn't come clean with you, you found out and by the sounds of it he wanted you to find out. He's not wanting to be in a marriage, he is cheating yet he gets you to make the discovery and act on it.

Why are you supporting HIM through counselling????

he flirts with other women and now I'll be he found one he's rather be with. Sorry but he sounds like a dud, get out now and save yourself the misery.
He's made all the noises about buying a house and starting a family but it was just all fake. I've had partners like this.

Agree with PP. this guy will destroy your self esteem & then probably sod off in a few years anyway

I’m sure he did suggest counselling - I mean what could be better than the opportunity to wang on about himself & his special vulnerability? So much time on meeeeeeeeeee

I suspect though once he realised counselling doesn’t exist to validate what a special delicate prize he us, he won’t want to go anymore

One more time - it is not your job to fix him

This isn't love, this is Hell...been there, and it burns your gut like nothing else, but this ache goes....there are wonderful blokes out there that will never ever make you feel like this, ever. He's been playing you like a goodun, now you get your pride n power back, get shot, get strong, and you will meet someone who loves you and will not play these mind games, the very second YOUR self esteem goes up.

Your husband is a complete pig. I know pigs, and he is a definite pig.

If you have to go to counselling to stop doing something you are fully aware makes your other half feel like shit, is the relationship really ever going to be a healthy one?

This.

I suspect the counselling will feed into his love of attention, getting you to feel sorry with him, to understand him, suppport him, to give him attention.

No-one needs counselling to stop flirting with a younger woman.
It's laughable.

Take a nosey around one of the married persons' dating sites. There are loads of men there, like your husband, perfectly openly stating that they want an affair to get that thrill of the new again, that excitement a new 'relationship', of the chase . Of all the reasons to have an affair that is the one I find most pathetic. Yours sounds like that. Don't wait around hoping that will get 'fixed'. Cos it won't.

The outcome here is not that he will get 'fixed'. Its that you will get hurt.

I am so sorry if you think the problem is with “your” paranoia and “your” trust issues

The problem is 100% him

He is pathetic, and it’s such a shame he has dented your self confidence and your ability to see it’s not all in your head

Stay strong

@Zolaanna

The only reason he is suggesting counselling is so he can say “he tried” its to save his face not to save your marriage

This

He didn't come clean with you, you found out and by the sounds of it he wanted you to find out. He's not wanting to be in a marriage, he is cheating yet he gets you to make the discovery and act on it.

Exactly.

OP, you also are having revisionism regarding your earlier happier times.

He's been thinking of other women a long time.
You know that.

His mind hasn't been on you.

He's always on the look out.

God help you, but it reads as if you probably won't be happy until you have wasted another 5 years of your life on him and his sensitive unfaithful ego.

God help you.

@Zolaanna

Why are you supporting HIM through counselling????

It beggars belief to me too. He's really done a number on you OP.