My husband is miserable because he thinks our marriage isn't working. I was happy until he said this...

[IGJ10]

I've been married to my husband for 2 and a bit years - it's my first marriage, his second. I love him to bits. Around a year ago, I had some issues with trusting him - I found some excessively flirty/sexual messages with some of his longstanding female friends on his phone. He was open about the fact that he is very flirty with some of his old female friends because it helps his self esteem (which is painfully low - he has often questioned whether he's good enough for me and expressed feelings of disgust about himself). He let me have full access to his phone and changed the way he interacted with these friends, but I felt betrayed that even after we'd married he still needed that validation from other females. I can be honest and say I went from a confident, independent woman to a bit of an emotional mess. Initially I managed to deal with this quite well and we were very honest with each other. At the same time (earlier this year), he started a new job and a member of his team who is very young and pretty has been texting him a lot. And he responded - again, whilst not crossing the line officially (messages were mostly about work) there was a very flirty overtone and when I saw the messages I flipped out. Whilst he has, once again, amended the nature of his messages with her (and he shows me them when I ask), I've met this girl and it's obvious she's besotted with him and gives his ego a massive boost. He claims he feels just friendship towards her and I've accepted that and we've carried on as normal. I haven't asked to see any of his messages for 6 months.

A few weeks ago he told me he wasn't sure about our future, he feels unhappy and has been feeling like he's going through the motions. This was a shock to me. Particularly as he said he'd actually been feeling this way for well over a year (long before I saw the first bunch of flirty messages). I'm aware that my paranoia and trust issues affected him but I felt I'd resolved them and we were getting on an even keel. We've been talking about buying a house and starting a family. I asked him today if he has feelings for that girl and he said "I don't know. Possibly. I don't know what I feel or why I feel." He said he loves me. I asked him what's wrong with the marriage and he said he doesn't know. Despite everything, I've shown him total trust, even after what we went through. I am confused. We are hopefully going to start counselling but any pearls of wisdom would be appreciated. Apologies that this is so long.

Gosh Op you sound lovely and so very level headed. You shouldn't be having these issues in the first or second year of marriage or ever. He is not a good man, and he certainly isn't a good husband.

Your husband should be your rock, he should be the one person you can rely on and be comfortable around.
You deserve so much better.

Without a shadow of a doubt I would divorce my husband if he did this to me
It is only going to get worse.

Did you find the messages or did he confess?

Sounds like he's still looking around wondering what he's missing, all those 'green' pastures. To. tally on him, nothing to do with you.

I'd walk. He's told you repeatedly through his actions, and now his words, that he's not trustworthy.

The Script is things that cheating spouses do/say when they are having an affair. The shock you felt when he suddenly announced he “doesn’t know how he feels” is classic script. Maybe somebody else on here might post the link? It’s things like re writing history “I’ve been unhappy for years” that kind of thing. Men rarely start griping and making these noises unless they have an already warm bed to jump into.

@Techway We've been together 3 and a half years. Married for 2 and a half. We're both 37. His first marriage was 2 to 3 years (I see the link there!) but they were very young, 18 when they met, married at 20/21 years old. There was no cheating on either side. Since then he had a fairly long term relationship in between, lasted 7 years. He told me that throughout both relationships he sent "flirty" texts to friends - he said neither of them cared.

This woman is well aware he is married. I've met her several times through his work functions. The messages I've seen between them are work related but there's also general chit chat about nonsense/ the kind of stuff you'd say to friends.

@JemimaTiggywinkle
I was very angry when I originally found out. I was fuming - I wrote him a long letter telling him exactly how he'd made me feel and it was painful reading. We spent lots of time talking about it and when I saw that he had changed his behaviour, I built myself up again and got myself together. I felt like holding on to that anger would make things worse.

I can be honest and say I went from a confident, independent woman to a bit of an emotional mess

You say you wish he would just tell you he doesn't love you.

Love is an action not just a word.

Read what you wrote earlier that I've put in bold above.

Do you think that someone who loves you is capable of behaving in a way that causes that reaction in you?

That isn't love, love is healthy, kind, functional... your relationship has become toxic, dysfunctional and anxious due to his repeated behaviour chipping away at your confidence and trust.

Love isn't enough, especially when both people are saying it but only one is doing it.

You are young, kind and well meaning. A man like this will be death by a thousand paper cuts for you. He will chip away at your diminishing self confidence and make you feel you have to work harder and harder to keep him happy.

The harder you work the less he will respect you and the more he will mistreat and disrespect you. The more he does that the harder you'll work. Round and round you go.

He likes young women because they are more naive, easier to manipulate and less likely to have encountered his type before.

Men like him live on the edge of "well I haven't actually cheated" but if they had the opportunity and thought they could get away with it they absolutely would, make no mistake. You and I wouldn't even if nobody would find out because we are decent and genuinely caring. But he would.

Please don't waste any more years on an arsehole like this. He's a common garden variety wanker - he is absolutely nothing special.

Has he ever cried over you like you have over him? Has he ever suffered a hit to his self esteem due to your actions the way you have due to his? No and no.

Men like this ruin womens lives. Don't be one of them my love

@IGJ10, it is likely that he is portraying you in a way to make himself the victim. It's often why women still fall for the married man "my wife doesn't understand me, we don't sleep together, she is controlling"

You married quickly which is also suggestive of the idealise, devalue and discard cycle. The issue is HIM, no matter how much blame he is heaping on you. Sadly I think the counselling is to prove he has tried to save the marriage. Judge him on his actions, not his words.

What was his childhood like? Is he close to his parents?

@Zolaanna
With regards the work colleague, I noticed he talked about her a bit and I just had that funny feeling. So I checked his messages and there they all were. The thing is he never tried to hide it because he doesn't really perceive it as anything other than an ego boost

The script is the way that he manipulates the situations that you Start to feel sorry for him for feeling compelled to treat you badly.

Get angry. You deserve better than this.

OP,
He's a vain shallow man that is ALWAYS going to be on theook out for an ego massage.

That is who he is.

You are never going to feel safe and valued with a man with one eye over your shoulder.

Get counselling for YOURSELF and don't waste 10 years with yhis asshole.

You are young enough to have a lovely future with a decent man.

For goodness sake don't have children with this vain, waster.
He will leave you for some other new ego rub and you will be tied to him for ever.

He has shown you exact who he is.

Do yourself a huge favour and believe him.

If he's being so open with his phone, I'd be tempted to look for phone number 2.

Despite everything, I've shown him total trust, even after what we went through. I am confused

Why on earth have you shown him total trust when he is not trustworthy?

Get rid of this creep and be glad you don't have dc.

@Techway His childhood was standard/okay, though I think he has unresolved issues with his mother. He often felt (and I have witnessed on occasion) belittled by her, they are quite different and he is very sensitive. I think he is probably depressed, though has never sought help and perhaps some of his self esteem issues (I do think they are real, not just an excuse to send flirty texts!) stem in part from this

He's taking you for a fool. Flirting with other women from the beginning of your marriage, then trying to pass it off as necessary for his self-esteem. Pull the other one! And then keeping you dangling with his vague waffle about how he thinks he feels. Sorry, but what a self-centred twat.

The Script: midlifeclub.com/midlife-for-dummies.htm

@youvegottenminuteslynn
I know it sounds like I'm making excuses (and I may well be) but when I first say the flirty messages he sent, I didn't say anything because I guess I was monitoring the situation. He knows I check his phone so it seemed odd that he was so open about it knowing I must see them. And I think it was that period of time (a few months I'd say) that chipped away at me. He could tell I wasn't right and I eventually came out and told him I didn't like the messages and that it had messed me up. He was very remorseful and he did cry a lot and promised to change the tone, which he did.

OP. My XH had flirty emails, mentionitis, started hiding his phone, and suddenly turned against me and walked out on me and our 4yo.

He is now married to the "she's just a friend" that he was texting secretly behind my back.

You have the choice here, to try and be tough and strong and to walk away from this. He will never change. He has no respect for you. He gets a kick out of being wanted by other women. My counsellor told me that people with low self esteem are most likely to have an affair because they thrive on others making them feel good.

Walk away now before you get tied to him for life with DC. You deserve so much more than this.

He sounds pathetic, frankly. You've only been married a couple of years, you've had to stamp down on his behaviour with other women twice already, he cries and tries to make you feel sorry for him when he gets caught, and you're accepting the idea of a future where you have to keep tabs on his mobile phone activity. You'd be better off without this needy manchild, OP.

@mycatlovesmenotyou

Thank you. I think I think I really need to try and take this on board. i.e. will his need to have an ego boost/stoke his self esteem mean an affair is inevitable? I will certainly bring this up at counselling. Do you think counselling can help him if he's open and willing?

I think one of things I'd appreciate a perspective on is the fact that he feels somethings isn't right (preceding his flirtations and my trust issues) but doesn't know what it is, even though he loves me. Have you ever felt like this or been in a relationship with someone who has felt this way? He's keen to try counselling as a way to figure this bit out as it's hard to know where to start without identifying the underlying issues.

[quote IGJ10]@mycatlovesmenotyou

Thank you. I think I think I really need to try and take this on board. i.e. will his need to have an ego boost/stoke his self esteem mean an affair is inevitable? I will certainly bring this up at counselling. Do you think counselling can help him if he's open and willing?[/quote]
Rather than focusing on whether his behaviour is inevitable please try to focus on YOU. Is it inevitable that being with a man like this will erode your confidence? Yes. That you'll find it really hard to feel secure in the relationship? Yes. That you'll worry he is always looking elsewhere? Yes. That you know if someone made a play for him, he is unlikely to do the right thing but instead would cave and then lie? Yes.

This early on into your marriage you shouldn't have to be mitigating fundamentally unkind and selfish character traits in a partner, you should be seeing them for what they are and acknowledging that they are dangerous for your mental well-being.

If you have to go to counselling to stop doing something you are fully aware makes your other half feel like shit, is the relationship really ever going to be a healthy one?

You're going to waste years of your precious life on a man who will never love you the way you want him to. Someone else could. Someone else wouldn't need counselling to persuade them to stop (at least temporarily) doing things that reduce you to a shadow of your former self.

Dont make someone a priority if they see you as an option.

kick him out.tell him it boosts your confidence cos its massively low.

"Has he ever cried over you like you have over him? Has he ever suffered a hit to his self esteem due to your actions the way you have due to his? No and no.

Men like this ruin womens lives. Don't be one of them my love"

A round of applause for youvegottenminuteslynn! This should just be cut and pasted into every thread like this. Men like this suck the life out of you, leaving you feeling older than your years and bitter beyond belief. So he cried, did he? He doesn't feel good enough, does he? Men that think you are a goddess, treat you like one, and never do things they should feel remorse over. I have been with a decent, good man for 25 years, not ONCE have I ever checked his mobile and he has never given me reason to doubt him. Does he leave the toilet seat up and not tidy up after himself? Yes, he does. Does he destroy my confidence and make me feel unloved? Not once. And we both have our demons, every one does. Please listen to everyone, OP, and walk.

OP, I didn't say that for you to take it on board, I said it for you to realise that he is getting a thrill out it and is unlikely to stop. He will inevitably blame you for everything at some point.

Counselling for him may improve his self esteem, but that is really his problem to worry about and not yours. You cannot stay with him in the hope that he will change.

You need to ask him to leave, and if he wants to keep you then he needs to do everything he can to prove to you that it is you and you alone that he wants. That may include having counselling , but that is on him and not on you.