My husband is miserable because he thinks our marriage isn't working. I was happy until he said this...

[IGJ10]

I've been married to my husband for 2 and a bit years - it's my first marriage, his second. I love him to bits. Around a year ago, I had some issues with trusting him - I found some excessively flirty/sexual messages with some of his longstanding female friends on his phone. He was open about the fact that he is very flirty with some of his old female friends because it helps his self esteem (which is painfully low - he has often questioned whether he's good enough for me and expressed feelings of disgust about himself). He let me have full access to his phone and changed the way he interacted with these friends, but I felt betrayed that even after we'd married he still needed that validation from other females. I can be honest and say I went from a confident, independent woman to a bit of an emotional mess. Initially I managed to deal with this quite well and we were very honest with each other. At the same time (earlier this year), he started a new job and a member of his team who is very young and pretty has been texting him a lot. And he responded - again, whilst not crossing the line officially (messages were mostly about work) there was a very flirty overtone and when I saw the messages I flipped out. Whilst he has, once again, amended the nature of his messages with her (and he shows me them when I ask), I've met this girl and it's obvious she's besotted with him and gives his ego a massive boost. He claims he feels just friendship towards her and I've accepted that and we've carried on as normal. I haven't asked to see any of his messages for 6 months.

A few weeks ago he told me he wasn't sure about our future, he feels unhappy and has been feeling like he's going through the motions. This was a shock to me. Particularly as he said he'd actually been feeling this way for well over a year (long before I saw the first bunch of flirty messages). I'm aware that my paranoia and trust issues affected him but I felt I'd resolved them and we were getting on an even keel. We've been talking about buying a house and starting a family. I asked him today if he has feelings for that girl and he said "I don't know. Possibly. I don't know what I feel or why I feel." He said he loves me. I asked him what's wrong with the marriage and he said he doesn't know. Despite everything, I've shown him total trust, even after what we went through. I am confused. We are hopefully going to start counselling but any pearls of wisdom would be appreciated. Apologies that this is so long.

If it is not her it will be the next one. And he does not love you, because he doesn't know what love is. He is. a selfish feelings guy and this will be the story of his life. You love who you thought he was and who you want him to be. Not some ass who acts like this. I am not in the LTB chorus, but I speak from experience here. FLip this around. Tell him you need him to leave while you decide if you can stay in a marriage with someone like him.

Try counselling OP. If he has suggested it himself it is worthy.
He may need to do something with his life that gives him the ego boost, instead of someone. You know, something challenging that he wants to do to prove himself. Rather than destroy his life like this.
But first thing for you OP, look after yourself.

I'm sorry you're going through this OP! Mumsnetters tend to be pretty quick to say leave, divorce, good riddens. You could post with just a couple of sentences about how a marriage is hard at the moment and the majority of your responses would sadly be saying that he is a [insert derogratory name here] and you're better off without him.

I would go against the grain in that you've only shared a little snippet of your relationship with us, how can any posters therefore be in a position to say throw in the towel.

He is wanting to go for counselling. That's brilliant. It could really help his low self esteem as well as help you both to find a way to move forward together, if that's what you decide to do. Marriage counselling has done wonders for some of my friends, I'd definitely say give it a go. Wishing you all the best and hope for a happy outcome for you

Oh God you need to throw this one back. Sorry, but he's simply not worth it. You want this to be the father of your kids? So insecure he can't help but flirt with anything that moves, so pathetic and whiny he attempts to justify it?

This is probably what ended his first marriage too. And he's not settled since. Immature, needy, insecure, unreliable.

You were only together a year before you married - not long enough. This is him. It won't stop.

Do you want children?

I bet he's blabbing about you to his 'harem' too, and they're soothing him. He is a stupid head in the clouds type, who cultivates female friendships (single women usually) via 'poor me', and craves female validation. You as just 1 female won't be enough. As hurtful as it may be, in your shoes I'd let him go. He'll be the ultimate pain in the ass throughout your marriage and you will never feel settled. If he does leave don't let him yo-yo back and forth between you and whichever woman he's telling a sob story about his wife to.

@CharlieD2020

Thank you for your words of encouragement. Whilst I want to be a realist, I appreciate that this snippet isn't the whole story. There is a lot of love and a lot of happy times between us, from the moment we met until recently and I know we are both keen to get this back. I think the fact he was willing to suggest counselling is positive and my prayer would be that it could help his self esteem, but I have to be realistic and note that people don't think he is capable of change. I am conscious that I don't want my own self esteem to slip away during this process. I've spent a lot of time this last year rebuilding and rethinking the way I see myself, doing things that make me happy.

@YoniAndGuy

Neither of us are contemplating children right now, though we talked about it in the past.

@blindinglyobviouslight

I would add that my pearls of wisdom are:

Save yourself the time and money of counselling.
Don't buy a house
Don't start a family

Divorce now when it is easier to have a clean split.

A man who is flirting in a new marriage is not a man who is going to say the course. A man who claims unhappiness in a new marriage is not a man who is going to stay the course.

He has put you through so much shit already in a very short marriage. He really is not worthy of you.

All of this.

He probably isn’t really interested in counselling.
Self esteem issues, don’t seem to bother him when he’s flirting with other people,
It’s just an excuse in this case.

Look on this as your first marriage.

"The thing is he never tried to hide it because he doesn't really perceive it as anything other than an ego boost"

Because he doesn't think he's doing anything wrong. He thinks it's fine for him to flirt, have close friendships with women he knows adore him, even though he has a wife who adores him and his behaviour is devastating her.

If he'd done it once, well ok, maybe he really didn't know until you said something. But now he's done it again AND taken it further saying he wasn't happy and that's why he did it.

It's all your fault, d'you see? You didn't make him feel enough of a God, you doubted him and questioned his behaviour, you've spoiled everything! We could have been happy if only you let me flirt and shag about, and just supported me, because my ego...so delicate...hoped you were the one... so disappointed.... now I've hurt you too....blah blah blah.

How long til you apologise to him, OP?

I feel massive sympathy OP, you sound lovely and of course it is hard to change your emotions towards the person you have loved and still love. Only time helps. The correct advice is to get out of this marriage. It does not sound as if it's good for you. The reality is, it's very hard to walk away. I hope you have a good support network to get you through. All the very best.

I'm so sorry OP. This is really hard. I'm afraid all I can do is share my story, which is that my husband has 'low self esteem' and was engaging in this kind of messaging with women. Unfortunately, I ignored the warning signs, listened to his promises of change, and I'm now in the situation where I've recently discovered that he's had an affair. The more I forgave him and agreed to give it one more go, the more his bad behaviour escalated.

He also did the whole 'I'm not sure this is right but I can't put my finger on why' thing. In hindsight, I know exactly what it was. It was because he quite liked having a wife at home and the security of that, but the 'thing' was that the marriage was rather inconvenient when he wanted to shag other women. It wasn't anything to do with me, or really the relationship itself being 'wrong'. He's just the sort of person who just doesn't want the inconvenience of having to resist temptation, and it really doesn't matter who he's married to.

Sorry OP because I'm sure this isn't what you want to hear. Whatever you decide, I hope you find the happiness and security you deserve.

Gaslighted!

Well , he sounds a total dud.
No commitment and needs his confidence 'boosting'. Immature and childish too, I suspect. He has hurt YOU again!
I would not go to Relate with him, he will lie or cry or talk rubbish.

Go to counselling on your own and get lots of support.
I think you may need to leave him or get him to leave if he lives in your home.

[quote IGJ10]@Techway We've been together 3 and a half years. Married for 2 and a half. We're both 37. His first marriage was 2 to 3 years (I see the link there!) but they were very young, 18 when they met, married at 20/21 years old. There was no cheating on either side. Since then he had a fairly long term relationship in between, lasted 7 years. He told me that throughout both relationships he sent "flirty" texts to friends - he said neither of them cared.

This woman is well aware he is married. I've met her several times through his work functions. The messages I've seen between them are work related but there's also general chit chat about nonsense/ the kind of stuff you'd say to friends.[/quote]
If you are 37 the question is 'do you want children?'

If the answer is yes, then walk. This man is too immature to cope.

He's unhappy now but wants children? He's in love with the idea of a perfect wife and perfect family. Thats not real and he will forever chase it.

This is his thing. Always looking for a fantasy and not engaging in reality. He gets a kick from those stoking his ego. He's not truly committed to the relationship and if you do have kids with him, one day he will stand up and say he's unhappy and fuck off leaving you with the baby.

And he will repeat the whole cycle over again.

Oh OP

He's quite attached to his sensitive nice guy with problems thing isn't he? From what you're saying, he quite likes being caught at this and so is happy to be open with you about it and to do the emotional letters from you and discuss his low self esteem and him being all complicated. I really would suspect counselling would achieve little more than giving him a big bucket of all that to splash about in, and the drama and the angst may be in itself meeting his needs.

I agree with pps, fgs don't move towards any further commitments with him whatever else you decide to do, and counselling alone for you would be a good thing to help you sort out your wants in a relationship, to get a good objective look at the situation and to look at your boundaries and where you want to put them.

Lots of good advice here . It’s not your fault . He is not unhappy or sad he is just thinking of moving on and trying to protect his reputation.

Sorry ☹️

He told me that throughout both (previous) relationships he sent "flirty" texts to friends - he said neither of them cared

This is just insulting, but to borrow an old phrase "he would say that wouldn't he?"

It's really quite hopeless because this isn't something he's done as a one off while feeling a bit "down" - it's his whole way of life, and just as he didn't stop after the others he won't stop with you either

Change your own situation, OP, because you certainly won't be able to change him

@veryfuckingpeeved
Thank you. And I'm sorry that you have had to go through this/are going through this too. I think this sums up my greatest fear - that despite counselling he'll never be able to tell me what is really wrong (either he doesn't know or can't admit it) and it could be related to his need to have emotional/sexual gratification from other women and that this can never change. I want to hold onto the hope that things can change but I also want to be a realist and accept what is possibly staring me in the face.

PS. Just because you have been happy together before does not mean you can revisit those pastures. Basically he is a cheat who uses an excuse of 'low selff esteem' to cheat.
Really he is saying it's your fault and you do not provide the flattery he gets elsewhere from his favourite nob head lady friends.

I am afraid I have been there and got the badge.

Kick him out. But you won’t.

I know this is going to sound really harsh but I feel compelled to write this. Want more for yourself. He will continue messaging and lying and going behind your back. You deserve more than just constant worry and paranoia. That is no life and certainly not a happy marriage. Walk away from this car crash of a man. You’re better off without this bullshit. Want more for yourself.

PPs forget his emotional and sexual needs as it is not your JOB to provide either. A proper relationship is based on mutual care and understanding, not filling in gaps in someone's deficiencies.

Good luck and don't forget you can contact Womens' Aid for advice and support.

You do need to concentrate on yourself and have a life outside of your marriage.

You don't deserve to be treated this badly, he is basically saying that he can't help it and you just need to put up with it. If he really thought it was a problem, he would have sorted out counselling 12 months ago

@IGJ10

I think one of things I'd appreciate a perspective on is the fact that he feels somethings isn't right (preceding his flirtations and my trust issues) but doesn't know what it is, even though he loves me. Have you ever felt like this or been in a relationship with someone who has felt this way? He's keen to try counselling as a way to figure this bit out as it's hard to know where to start without identifying the underlying issues.

“feels something isn’t right” just a bullshit line which actually means he’s quite fond of you but you don’t make him giddy anymore hence him looking for his giddy fix elsewhere, honestly stop wasting your time with this creep and ditch him.