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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

My husband is miserable because he thinks our marriage isn't working. I was happy until he said this...

464 replies

IGJ10 · 16/11/2020 15:25

I've been married to my husband for 2 and a bit years - it's my first marriage, his second. I love him to bits. Around a year ago, I had some issues with trusting him - I found some excessively flirty/sexual messages with some of his longstanding female friends on his phone. He was open about the fact that he is very flirty with some of his old female friends because it helps his self esteem (which is painfully low - he has often questioned whether he's good enough for me and expressed feelings of disgust about himself). He let me have full access to his phone and changed the way he interacted with these friends, but I felt betrayed that even after we'd married he still needed that validation from other females. I can be honest and say I went from a confident, independent woman to a bit of an emotional mess. Initially I managed to deal with this quite well and we were very honest with each other. At the same time (earlier this year), he started a new job and a member of his team who is very young and pretty has been texting him a lot. And he responded - again, whilst not crossing the line officially (messages were mostly about work) there was a very flirty overtone and when I saw the messages I flipped out. Whilst he has, once again, amended the nature of his messages with her (and he shows me them when I ask), I've met this girl and it's obvious she's besotted with him and gives his ego a massive boost. He claims he feels just friendship towards her and I've accepted that and we've carried on as normal. I haven't asked to see any of his messages for 6 months.

A few weeks ago he told me he wasn't sure about our future, he feels unhappy and has been feeling like he's going through the motions. This was a shock to me. Particularly as he said he'd actually been feeling this way for well over a year (long before I saw the first bunch of flirty messages). I'm aware that my paranoia and trust issues affected him but I felt I'd resolved them and we were getting on an even keel. We've been talking about buying a house and starting a family. I asked him today if he has feelings for that girl and he said "I don't know. Possibly. I don't know what I feel or why I feel." He said he loves me. I asked him what's wrong with the marriage and he said he doesn't know. Despite everything, I've shown him total trust, even after what we went through. I am confused. We are hopefully going to start counselling but any pearls of wisdom would be appreciated. Apologies that this is so long.

OP posts:
Madlollyoftheshire · 18/11/2020 13:41

“....if he is unable to commit to the necessary and lasting change I need, I will have to exit stage left.“

So when/how will you be sure if this commitment? You need to be more firm - he appears to have bought himself more time.

This is all STILL about him and HIS needs.

Chocaholic9 · 18/11/2020 13:42

@lazylinguist

Good for you, OP. I'd be very wary of accepting his insinuation that the totally normal differences of opinion or differing levels of enthusiasm in a couple over things like the house building constitute you being unsupportive of him or excuse his behaviour though. Imo that's just another example of him wanting his own way and implying that if he doesn't get his own way over one thing l, he'll assuage the terrible hurt over it by getting his cake and eating it in other areas of his life - i.e. other women.
I think he's using the house building stuff as a distraction.

"Look at how unsupportive you are" while he's busy chatting up other women.

Fluffycloudland77 · 18/11/2020 13:43

That’s just another hoop to jump through isn’t it? You have to be kinky sex kitten too as well. There would be another hoop to go through even if you do agree to dress up as a care bear in crotchless knickers.

Happened to an in-law of mine, together nearly 15 years. Got married and she wanted a baby so he asked her to go & now I notice a sexy younger personal trainer is on his insta 🤨.

Kit19 · 18/11/2020 14:05

good for you OP starting to call him out on his shit!

and what is he going to do to change OP or is this all on you?

CorianderLord · 18/11/2020 14:21

When you've explained you feel you've been passive you said it's because he feels you don't push him with support. But then he doesn't try and do the things, requiring you to push him to do them.

So actually he's being passive and expecting you to drag all of his dreams (house) and wants (sex) over the threshold.

That's not fair, he needs his own drive too.

LilyWater · 18/11/2020 14:22

Why did his previous marriage break up? is there a chance you could speak to his ex to verify/hear her side of the story?

I wonder if he truly intended to stay faithful during the course of the marriage. If so, this could be grounds for annulment (particularly if you had a religious ceremony). To start flirting with other women just ONE YEAR into marriage signals that he didn't take the commitment seriously at all. HE needs to have therapy for his own self esteem issues. One of the best pieces of advice I received a few years ago was never have a serious relationship with a man with low self esteem.

LilyWater · 18/11/2020 14:26

Just seen your post about the previous marriage. You only have his word that there was no cheating and of course that's what he would say even if that wasn't the case! Do you really think that if he moved onto another woman after you, he would take full responsibility for and readily disclose his habit of inappropriate behaviour with other women and the damage it caused your relationship?

RedToothBrush · 18/11/2020 14:43

This includes spicing up our sex life (his interests are a bit more kinky than mine, but we agreed things we both want to try/are comfortable with) - he felt like he was pushing for some time to improve this and I was being a bit passive/ not really contributing.

Its not up to you to be kinky. He's trying to push your boundaries on this. You are not a performing sex robot. You know that right?

And he's right - if nothing else I've realised through the Mumsnet process that I can be passive and could and should be more proactive.

Just because you should be proactive on other things, doesn't mean your sex life is one of those.

When we first talked about moving he'd looked into building a house and I thought this was way too much hard work and dismissed the idea, though he was very interested in it.

What did I say about this guy being away with the fairies and wanting the big dream: the perfect wife, the amazing perfect house he built himself, the dream job? etc etc. He's 37. He's not got off his arse to try and make it happen. He never will. He's too busy looking at his phone trying to fuck someone. He lives in fantasy land but hasn't got the drive to be decisive enough to actually go and do something. He'd rather fuck about going 'oh I'm confused'.

I didn't know at the time but he later told me he felt very unsupported when he was researching this. I did explain that I don't really care about building houses but because of how he felt I got involved with looking into it, went to expos and supported the idea. But he can't seem to let go of the idea that I don't support him.

He needs a fall guy for when he bottles it. He's full of hot air and ideas but he's not a doer. Fantasy land man

I think he feels like if he doesn't push ideas, I don't come up with them.

Not your fucking problem. He's not convincing you of the idea. And he's never got past looking at magazines has he? He's never actively gone out and looked at plots of lands, building costs, architect costs, costs of architects and then presented this to you to try and convince you, has he?

If he wants to be the dreamer thats fine. But you've every right to be the practical one, that questions him. And perhaps rightly brings him back down to earth. Things don't get down without that side to them too.

But I've seen myself as a realist, whilst he is a dreamer. I think my approach is different.

You are allowed to be different. But respect for each other on that score is also important. He needs to value your realistic nature if he expects you to pander to his dreams.

I also sought clarity on the concept of "superficial love". I told him my love for him has never been or felt superficial. He said that his love for me wasn't superficial but that he felt the way it was expressed was sometimes forced.
Forced? In what way? He feels forced to demonstrate his love by not being a fucker with a phone being inappropriate with other women?

Honestly, is this what you want? A man who resents you for getting in the way of dreams he's never going to get off his arse to do anyway? A man who says he feels forced into the way he demonstrates his love for you? A man who expects you to be kinky in the bedroom because he's a fantacist. You know you will never live up to his fantasy in the bedroom don't you? And he will always push the boundary saying but 'if only you tried this' or 'why can't we do that'.

Its good you seem to be seeing him for who he is, but keep doing that. And don't take responsibility for him living in lala land.

WizardOfAus · 18/11/2020 14:48

Jesus Christ, OP.

So now he’s got you wondering about whether you’ve been too “passive”.

Now you’re wondering, “did I not support him enough with this house building dream?”

“Was I not open enough to his sexual needs?”

“I didn’t fulfil all my domestic duties”

Do you know what he has done here?!

He has deflected attention away from his SHITTY behaviour and has bought himself more TIME.

Meanwhile, your time to start a new, HEALTHY relationship is RUNNING OUT.

The very fact that he doesn’t consider sending naughty texts and eyeing up the young colleague as “cheating” should be the VERY REASON you should exit stage left NOW.

Dery · 18/11/2020 14:55

Seconding all the PPs’ comments. It’s all about him, isn’t it? He sounds so immature.

And did you ask him what he thought you were entitled to out of the marriage? What does he think he’s offering you?

Whitney168 · 18/11/2020 15:19

Isn't it funny that he feels blame is not the way forward, but only when it's pointing at him ... ? Seems quite happy to send it in the opposite direction.

Enough4me · 18/11/2020 15:31

OP, you are living in a scenario that many find themselves in. You are being manipulated into thinking that you are in the wrong. This way he keeps full power in his pretend victim role and you take on guilt and the need to constantly know you should be doing more.

It's like he's taking out your clear thought patterns (logic) twisting them to suit himself and you are apologising!

No he shouldn't be cheating flirting and telling you it's your fault!

Balzac20 · 18/11/2020 15:55

‘No he shouldn't be cheating flirting and telling you it's your fault!‘

^ This this this. I’ve been there, my husband led me to believe he was treating me like crap because I was boring and only interested in knitting and goats (his precise words). I believed him and tied myself in knots trying to keep him happy. Fundamentally I’ve realised though that the problem was with him (and with all these men), anything they say is just a lame excuse. Would you ever dream of justifying cheating on him because he didn’t engage fully enough with you on your dream of building an arc/a spaceship/an airport in the Thames estuary? Of course not, because you’re not an arsehole. But that’s what he’s trying to do to you.

ZaraCarmichaelshighheels · 18/11/2020 15:56

@WizardOfAus

Jesus Christ, OP.

So now he’s got you wondering about whether you’ve been too “passive”.

Now you’re wondering, “did I not support him enough with this house building dream?”

“Was I not open enough to his sexual needs?”

“I didn’t fulfil all my domestic duties”

Do you know what he has done here?!

He has deflected attention away from his SHITTY behaviour and has bought himself more TIME.

Meanwhile, your time to start a new, HEALTHY relationship is RUNNING OUT.

The very fact that he doesn’t consider sending naughty texts and eyeing up the young colleague as “cheating” should be the VERY REASON you should exit stage left NOW.

I agree with Wizard he’s really doing a number on you OP
BuffaloMozzerella · 18/11/2020 16:10

Oh god. There is always some sexual aspect to how these men view their lack of fulfilment in life...

Honestly let him go off into his fantasyland where women are just begging to fulfil his kinks and houses are waiting to build themselves.

Every relationship has something which could be worked on a bit more or perhaps a bit more thought/effort put in. These aren't excuses for his behaviour though - his behaviour can only be viewed as destructive to your relationship (which he is totally aware of btw but doesn't want to give it up) so by raising any other "issues" he is trying to get the spotlight off himself and onto you/the 'overall' relationship.

The spotlight needs to stay on him. He stops the relationship with the other woman, recommits to the relationship, does whatever else you need to feel secure - and only when you feel comfortable and see active changes by him do you consider any changes to your house or sex life. Not the other way round.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 18/11/2020 16:20

Please, please don't try using 'spicing up' your sex life as part of your attempt to get the relationship on track.

It's never going to be on track because he is a selfish, cruel and unfaithful man by nature.

I almost can't bear that you're even considering attempting to work things out but I appreciate it's all been a quick and scary process so far starting to see him for who he is.

But it won't work out. So please don't spend the last few months you have to be living with this arsehole doing what HE wants in the bedroom to try and placate or please him.

You will feel extra awful after you leave knowing he persuaded you to go out of your comfort zone sexually knowing full well he had no intention of changing, not really.

I wish I could scoop you up out of there. I hate him.

QualityFeet · 18/11/2020 17:18

I think the further you go the more clearly you will see him. Thank goodness you aren’t wasting your life on him.

PyjamaLlamas · 18/11/2020 17:48

Sorry but it's awful you're considering doing "spicy" sexual things that are not your preference, just to keep him happy. This is NOT what a healthy marriage looks like.

He has gaslit you once again, into thinking you have not been enough, in bed, with the house build etc. What utter bullshit. HE is the one who is lacking, not you.

As someone who started having babies aged 40, please, if there's a chance you do want children don't stay with this man. It can take ages to conceive. Dont you think you deserve a healthy relationship and a partner who loves you properly before you start a family? I use the word "love" as a verb by the way. If the answer is yes then you, and only you, need therapy to get to the bottom of why you have tolerated this bullshit for so long. Clue- It's probably because your family treated you like shit and so now that behaviour is what you associate with what love looks like. (I've been there).

You owe it to yourself to open your eyes. Nevermind him. Look after YOU. Visualise your life at age 50, or 60. Do you want a loving family around you? A healthy relationship? A partner devoted to you? If so then only YOU can make that happen. Your future self will thank you, I promise.

blindinglyobviouslight · 18/11/2020 18:08

'You didn't support my dream to build a house' has to be the worse excuse for chatting up younger women I have ever heard.

blindinglyobviouslight · 18/11/2020 18:16

He does sound like the kind of guy who will always notice when you are NOT giving him what he wants but will never notice when you are.

Entitlement mentality.

RedToothBrush · 18/11/2020 18:20

@blindinglyobviouslight

'You didn't support my dream to build a house' has to be the worse excuse for chatting up younger women I have ever heard.
You didn't support my dream to be a professional footballer. I went to a few matches to see what I would be doing, and that sufficient to prove my commitment to wanting to be a professional footballer. But I retain the right to act like a womanising professional footballer.

Yeah its really shit excuse isn't it?

IGJ10 · 18/11/2020 18:23

Thank you all again for your comments. They have certainly picked me up on a day when I’ve been feeling a bit low. I laughed out loud at the prospect of wearing a care bear outfit with crotchless pants not being enough to titillate him!

I want to reassure that I would not do anything sexually I wasn’t comfortable with. But I’ll admit some of the things he’s suggested are definitely things I’ve never contemplated before!

@youvegottenminuteslynn thanks for the offer of a scoop. It is painfully tempting to take you up on this.

I’m trying to process everything I’ve read today. In short, I’m not sure how much time would be appropriate to give to see real change - I’ve never tried counselling before and I really don’t know. Maybe 3 to 6 months?

I feel reassured that some of you think that me not pushing his dreams doesn’t necessarily make me unsupportive. I guess it’s how we approach and respect each other when making decisions about things and just acknowledging we’re different without becoming unhappy.

I’ve been thinking a lot about babies and fertility today. I’ve previously said I wouldn’t regret not having them. This is true. But I think there’s part of me that’s scared to contemplate it at my age physically anyway that puts me off. I had a wild idea at work today about moving out, divorcing and having a baby on my own before it’s too late then meeting someone years down the line when the time feels right. I know it sounds crazy.

Anyway, thank you all again. My backbone feels stiffer by the day. This is like the ultimate free therapy. Here’s to me getting my cake! 🎂

OP posts:
mrscampbellblackagain · 18/11/2020 18:26

OP, you are handling this so well. You know you deserve sooooo much better than him.

Hopefully you aren't too financially entwined.

Dery · 18/11/2020 18:27

“I had a wild idea at work today about moving out, divorcing and having a baby on my own before it’s too late then meeting someone years down the line when the time feels right. I know it sounds crazy.”

Not crazy at all. If you think you may want children, he’s stealing your chance. He’s in a different boat and could probably father children even 15-20 years from now.

TwentyViginti · 18/11/2020 18:30

He wants you to do the pick me dance by pandering to his kinks. Do this, do that, do the other then I may consider not being a sleazing twat with other women.