My husband is miserable because he thinks our marriage isn't working. I was happy until he said this...

[IGJ10]

I've been married to my husband for 2 and a bit years - it's my first marriage, his second. I love him to bits. Around a year ago, I had some issues with trusting him - I found some excessively flirty/sexual messages with some of his longstanding female friends on his phone. He was open about the fact that he is very flirty with some of his old female friends because it helps his self esteem (which is painfully low - he has often questioned whether he's good enough for me and expressed feelings of disgust about himself). He let me have full access to his phone and changed the way he interacted with these friends, but I felt betrayed that even after we'd married he still needed that validation from other females. I can be honest and say I went from a confident, independent woman to a bit of an emotional mess. Initially I managed to deal with this quite well and we were very honest with each other. At the same time (earlier this year), he started a new job and a member of his team who is very young and pretty has been texting him a lot. And he responded - again, whilst not crossing the line officially (messages were mostly about work) there was a very flirty overtone and when I saw the messages I flipped out. Whilst he has, once again, amended the nature of his messages with her (and he shows me them when I ask), I've met this girl and it's obvious she's besotted with him and gives his ego a massive boost. He claims he feels just friendship towards her and I've accepted that and we've carried on as normal. I haven't asked to see any of his messages for 6 months.

A few weeks ago he told me he wasn't sure about our future, he feels unhappy and has been feeling like he's going through the motions. This was a shock to me. Particularly as he said he'd actually been feeling this way for well over a year (long before I saw the first bunch of flirty messages). I'm aware that my paranoia and trust issues affected him but I felt I'd resolved them and we were getting on an even keel. We've been talking about buying a house and starting a family. I asked him today if he has feelings for that girl and he said "I don't know. Possibly. I don't know what I feel or why I feel." He said he loves me. I asked him what's wrong with the marriage and he said he doesn't know. Despite everything, I've shown him total trust, even after what we went through. I am confused. We are hopefully going to start counselling but any pearls of wisdom would be appreciated. Apologies that this is so long.

Bloody well done op! I bet it also felt good to take back some control over yourself and the situation.

Trying to imagine Dh telling me the reason he as an older married man is making a fool of himself at work with a younger girl is because our relationship wasn’t good enough. Failing.

I said fine, I'm not trying to change you. But I won't stick around to watch you falling for every young girl who bats her eyes at you and be wondering if you're going to leave me every time - I said I'd run away as fast as I can. This upset him. He wants time to process... Not bad for a spineless wonder! Thank you all.

Excellent work, OP. Going to be interesting to see how he reacts today, now you're not being the compliant little wife!

Fab news.

Keep at it.

'Time to process'?

Process what exactly? The fact he is disresepectful? The fact he's cheated on you emotionally? The fact he doesn't love you and ignores his vows?

He's not reflecting on any of this.

Nope what he's reflecting on is how he can manipulate you, guilt you and keep you on the hook. Don't fall for it.

I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't do 'the grand gesture' and goes to the petrol station buy some cheap flowers and tells you how he really wants to make a go of it with you afterall.

Which after everything he has just said is bollocks. And just hot air. And he will still probably be texting this girl anyway.

Seriously don't be fooled or manipulated. Cheap gestures or statements aren't enough at this point.

A person can't control their feelings, and it's not unusual to be faithfully married but find someone else attractive.

What you can do is choose to deal responsibly with your feelings, and those of your spouse. He hasn't done this. He's acted like a 4 year old who has been told that they can't have their cake and eat it.

@Chocaholic9

I had a look at Chump lady's website and the theory of cake

www.chumplady.com/2012/04/the-unified-theory-of-cake/

I noticed this paragraph:

Cake eaters act vague. They need time. They appeal to you for patience. They feel very, very sorry for themselves. They’ll assert that they’re trying very hard to appease you (they’re not, but they may throw you a bone like marriage counseling, or sex, or paying attention to their children), but you’re soooo unreasonable with your demands. Cake eaters are defensive when you question their commitment or the sincerity of their remorse. They really just want you to leave them alone and let them get back to the business of eating cake.

It's very much how OP's partner is playing it. He needs time. He's defensive. He's suggesting marriage counselling when he's the problem.

The cake paragraph cannot be repeated enough on this thread.

HE'S NOT SUCH A SPECIAL CASE IS HE?

Shouting because like many here, I feel utter rage at this man's antics, putting the blame on OP for him being nothing but a trite little cheating prick.

So pleased she's wising up.

The vow to forsake all others would be meaningless if it required no effort. Many of us are attracted to people other than our long-term partners from time to time. We don’t act on those feelings because we love and respect our partners. That’s the point. He sounds incredibly immature. Well done for taking back your power, OP, and reminding him he’s doesn’t get to call all the shots in your relationship.

He needs to time process! Process what, exactly?!!!! How he is going to keep you sweet while continually flirting and keeping other women in his sights?! NO. None of this is acceptable. I’m sorry OP but he doesn’t really love you. Get out now.

And I agree with PP - get him gone. This is him 2 years into marriage - not a midlife crisis after 20 years of exemplary behaviour. He’s wasting your time.

OP the scales have fallen, well done you. Hold on the that feeling because he will try to break your resolve.

What an absolute wanker of a man, you deserve so much better.

What an absolute waster OP.🙄

OP, what a rubbish situation to find yourself in. Please know it’s not your fault. It sounds like you’re doing absolutely the right thing. I was in a similar situation myself five years ago, recently married and husband withdrew and said he wasn’t sure about his feelings any more. I didn’t know it at the time but I did the ‘pick me’ dance, I cringe to think of it now but he had convinced me it was my fault. I forgave him, things got back to normal, we had a son. Anyway recently I found out he’d been seeing prostitutes and the reason he’d been such an arse five years previously was that he was having an affair with a colleague.
My advice would be to ditch him now. I can understand how hard this will be as you’re so recently married, but you can’t stay with a total dick who’ll you’ll never be able to trust because you’re worried about what people might think (nothing to suggest this is a concern of yours, but it was something I was majorly worried about). My STBXH also span the whole ‘low self esteem’ nonsense, it’s funny that it always seems to play out on infidelity rather than improving their sense of self worth by being a stand-up husband, volunteering for charity or whatever.
Good luck OP, don’t forget you are strong, fabulous and you don’t need some awful man making you feel anything less than that.

@Balzac20

OP, what a rubbish situation to find yourself in. Please know it’s not your fault. It sounds like you’re doing absolutely the right thing. I was in a similar situation myself five years ago, recently married and husband withdrew and said he wasn’t sure about his feelings any more. I didn’t know it at the time but I did the ‘pick me’ dance, I cringe to think of it now but he had convinced me it was my fault. I forgave him, things got back to normal, we had a son. Anyway recently I found out he’d been seeing prostitutes and the reason he’d been such an arse five years previously was that he was having an affair with a colleague. My advice would be to ditch him now. I can understand how hard this will be as you’re so recently married, but you can’t stay with a total dick who’ll you’ll never be able to trust because you’re worried about what people might think (nothing to suggest this is a concern of yours, but it was something I was majorly worried about). My STBXH also span the whole ‘low self esteem’ nonsense, it’s funny that it always seems to play out on infidelity rather than improving their sense of self worth by being a stand-up husband, volunteering for charity or whatever. Good luck OP, don’t forget you are strong, fabulous and you don’t need some awful man making you feel anything less than that.

^

This.

The low-self esteem stuff is an excuse.

OP I don't think it's a surprise to anyone here who had the objective view of the situation you were describing, but it must feel like a car wreck to be on the receiving end of. I am so sorry he's treating you like this.

And yes, total cake eater. From what your most recent post describes, he is telling you he reserves the right to do whatever he wants at the time, and you're not supposed to mind about this or having feelings about this, but just remain committed and available in case you happen at any point to be the option he wants to go with.

Words fail.

You sound like a caring, responsible and committed person. What does he believe you deserve from a relationship? (And no, that's not an excuse to wail about his self esteem and failures while you listen and provide soothing and attention.) What is your entitlement from a relationship and partner? What responsibilities does he feel he should be meeting towards you? Why does he feel that you have nothing better to do with your life and deserve nothing more than to hang around waiting for him to make (or not make) decisions about what makes him happy that may or may not include you? What does he see as in this for you?

He will have many, many reasons why it's much nicer for him if you just hang around providing what you're currently providing indefinitely, and unfortunately I suspect you will find he will offer you just enough promises and hope and saying the right things to keep you there. Protecting yourself will involve making it very clear to him where your boundaries are, how long you are prepared to wait through his faffing about, and that if you are not happy and fulfilled by him in a relationship with him then obviously you're going to go look for that relationship with someone else. You get cake too.

MichelleofzeResistance

Excellent post.

You get cake too

Love it!

You’re not spineless, it’s a huge shock for h8m to come out with all this “oh I’m not sure how I feel, and I neeeed validation from other women that I’m worthy and we were never that serious anyway, and I don’t know how I feel about young besotted colleague” your on the back foot because he’s had time to plan all this.

It’s all me me me with these men.

OP please dont fall for this. This is exactly what my dad did to my mum for 2 years! He kept her dangling on a string because he loved the fact she adored him and did everything to save her marriage. He too was "depressed " had low self esteem, didnt know how he felt, didnt know why he felt like this, wanted her to be patient while he decided whether he wanted to stay with us. We had to watch him flit in and out of our life when the whole time he had a second family on the go (this came out a year after he left).

He later left us and I am NC with him now but he utterly destroyed my mum she has never got over the way he treated her. Get out now while you can and move on!

You don't need counselling...it sounds like he has already checked out of the marriage and is pursuing other 'options'.

It also sounds like your trust issues were based on actual facts than just irrational fears and you probably picked up on the fact that your husband was not that committed to you and your marriage.

You might both be better off with new partners.

Thanks for all the posts. I'm glad I called him out on this stuff and disappointed, if not surprised that his reaction was to tell me not to apportion blame and accept that what I consider (and many people consider) cheating is okay.

I have finally read the chumplady cake eating stuff. It's actually scary how accurate it is. I wonder if in some ways it proves the point that there is no true human free will - we are all machines that invariably revert to type. In his case, the emotional cheater type. If so, it is damning and bloody depressing. I feel weirdly despondent and hopeful at the same time.

For reference, we spoke about quite a few other things that he sees as contributing to his/our unhappiness. There were a few things that I could put my hand up to. But they were what I think are minor domestic things that we had rectified/ were in the process of rectifying previously. This includes spicing up our sex life (his interests are a bit more kinky than mine, but we agreed things we both want to try/are comfortable with) - he felt like he was pushing for some time to improve this and I was being a bit passive/ not really contributing. And he's right - if nothing else I've realised through the Mumsnet process that I can be passive and could and should be more proactive. He feels our life has no direction - I pointed out that we'd been looking at buying a house and having kids. When we first talked about moving he'd looked into building a house and I thought this was way too much hard work and dismissed the idea, though he was very interested in it. I didn't know at the time but he later told me he felt very unsupported when he was researching this. I did explain that I don't really care about building houses but because of how he felt I got involved with looking into it, went to expos and supported the idea. But he can't seem to let go of the idea that I don't support him. I think he feels like if he doesn't push ideas, I don't come up with them. But I've seen myself as a realist, whilst he is a dreamer. I think my approach is different. I also sought clarity on the concept of "superficial love". I told him my love for him has never been or felt superficial. He said that his love for me wasn't superficial but that he felt the way it was expressed was sometimes forced. I suggested that when I found out about him texting other girls, for a period of time I pulled away from him and that this is natural.

Ultimately I have, with the aid of overwhelming mumsnet opinion and my own considerable self reflection, come to the conclusion that if he is unable to commit to the necessary and lasting change I need, I will have to exit stage left. Counselling notwithstanding. I think I may need to actually tell him that all cheaters use low self esteem as an excuse and see if this sparks any insight. I know in my heart that if this happened to me again I would be irreparably damaged and I know I deserve better than that. I do want cake too!

So he wants you be a performing sex doll to facilitate his kinks, on top of everything else.

*to

While he merrily pursues other women.

Well, I'm impressed. Well done. He thought he was going to walk all over you, while you supported him to do whatever he wanted and picked him up afterwards.

The cake analogy- he'd have cake and you'd vacuum and do the washing up afterwards.

Good on you. I'm sure it's upsetting, but he isn't the man you'd hoped he was. He's weak and greedy.

Well, I'm impressed. Well done. He thought he was going to walk all over you, while you supported him to do whatever he wanted and picked him up afterwards.

The cake analogy- he'd have cake and you'd vacuum and do the washing up afterwards.

Good on you. I'm sure it's upsetting, but he isn't the man you'd hoped he was. He's weak and greedy.

Good for you, OP. I'd be very wary of accepting his insinuation that the totally normal differences of opinion or differing levels of enthusiasm in a couple over things like the house building constitute you being unsupportive of him or excuse his behaviour though. Imo that's just another example of him wanting his own way and implying that if he doesn't get his own way over one thing l, he'll assuage the terrible hurt over it by getting his cake and eating it in other areas of his life - i.e. other women.