DH says “you’re making me force you” to DD

[Callardandbowser]

DH has lately started to say to DD (age 3) “Don’t make me force this” to DD when she’s resisting something like for example having her teeth brushed. I have found DD has really started to push boundaries lately (as they all do) but I never use my physical strength to ‘win’ in the battle of wills because I’m stronger so it’s (in my opinion) an abuse of power.

If DD won’t cooperate with having her teeth brushed, DH holds her really strongly so she can’t move and brushes her teeth.

Yesterday was bad. DD was bored because she’d been in all morning and started to pull a part off one of her soft toys. Instead of distracting her, DH raised his voice repeatedly at her and ended up snatching the toy off her which made her fall over. He then continued to tell her off.

I was really disturbed by this interaction because again he blamed her for him essentially losing his temper.

I have sent him a long email (because I don’t have the energy for an argument) explaining that I don’t want him to blame DD for him being physically dominating.

When I confronted him about the fact that he is a 50 year old man and has an inherent advantage over her. He really stuck to his guns and said that he will do the same to the cat if she’s breaking something (ie pick her up and take her away). I said that the cat is an animal, you can’t communicate to a cat in words he then shouted “It’s about time DD learns to do as she’s told” (for context DD is the best behaved kid I’ve ever come across, I’m a primary school teacher and have nannied for many children for 20 years so) I’m not just being biased.
I said that using force when dealing with behaviour is unacceptable and he just stood his ground and said that he will continue to do this if they are breaking possessions.

I said that the only time parents should intervene physically is when the child is endangering themselves or others. He just said that I am judgemental and that that’s just my view.

This is the worst bit. I then pushed him. I have never done this before and it really has disturbed me. I have apologised to him, I wanted to show him the behaviour that he was justifying. But in doing so I became a hypocrite and of course my point is lost.

I grew up in a shouty, unsafe home and I’m worried that I’m just being over-sensitive and I’ve made a mountain out of a molehill.

DH has never hit/ smacked/ hurt DD and never would but still I don’t like the vibe of his forcefulness or his behaviour management skills.

Please be gentle. I know mn can be a bit of a tricky place to ask for advice must I feel all over the place today and could do without people being mean.

Thanks for reading.

Saying "you're making me force you" isn't great but it's a rare toddler who never has to be restrained or made to do something necessary by an adult.

I don't like the phrase at all and obviously loads of things you try first, but they need to know it's a non negotiable, and the reason is that you love them and want them to be safe and healthy. I cannot stress enough that I do so many things with my kids to explain, incentivise and support them. But fundamentally do I think it's okay to calmly insist for a limited number of things? Yes.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=icpla.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Byng-Hall-J.-Family-Scripts.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiCp7mO1vXsAhULTcAKHYq0AOsQFjAHegQIFRAB&usg=AOvVaw0Qn4dSeLHdHSL0T0AsHJVp&cshid=1604932201887" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=icpla.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Byng-Hall-J.-Family-Scripts.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiCp7mO1vXsAhULTcAKHYq0AOsQFjAHegQIFRAB&usg=AOvVaw0Qn4dSeLHdHSL0T0AsHJVp&cshid=1604932201887

I have sent him a long email (because I don’t have the energy for an argument) FGS

You complain about your husbands flawed mode of communication to DD ( shouting and threats). What about the travesty of "communication" between you and him?

You shove him (while arguing physical force is unacceptable. Rather than speak to him, you send an email but still expect him to "listen"?

You tell us you're a teacher/expert and DD is perfectly behaved; isn't that a way of blaming DH for everything that's wrong in your family relationships

When your DD refuses to co-operate with Daddy ,  hurts  her soft toys, she is  acting out  behaviours she observes in BOTH  her parents.   Think on. 




When  your DD refuses to co-operate ; she  attacks her soft toys.

I hope that works OP, it shpuld send you to the PDF but if it doesn't work I can try DM it? Sorry, I am not being very savvy!

Your OH and you need to decide on what your parenting strategy is, but it should be an agreement, not just him bending to your will.

We had a hell of a time with DD when she was three, but she would never have sat and wrecked one of her toys and if she did we wouldn’t have considered her to be very well behaved and shrugged it off as being bored. Perhaps your OH’s issue is, he sees her behaviour as problematic and is trying to change it, rather than excusing it.

@FlyNow

I agree with you except for the teeth brushing thing. This isn't really a case where distraction works as you need them to keep still and some kids really bloody hate it. "Don't make me force you" sounds creepy but I would say "I'm going to brush your teeth now", then do it.

I agree with this (the use of the word "force" is wrong, but you have to say "you brush them or I'll brush them".)

You sound like a really great parent, OP and have loads of experience of working with children and understand how they ‘work’. Have you tried teaching your OH your tricks? I pick up so much from my teacher friends about how to relate to my son (I notice somewhere you posted about making ‘good choices’ - that’s something we use, but I had never heard of it before - and have taught my OH the concept too). These kinds of tools relating to the children make life much easier and avoid the need to get to the stage of shouting/using force etc., but they don’t come naturally to all of us, we need to learn! It’s a way of reframing our thinking and behaviour I suppose, which is second nature to you but possibly hard for him?

I guess it really boils down to how receptive he is of your views, willingness to adjust his behaviour, learn and perhaps form some sort of joint strategy and compromise? If he can’t do this then, well, might be worth looking at the bigger picture

@Callardandbowser

Thank you all so much for your considered replies. I hope he and I can meet later to discuss everything.

"hope he and I can meet later to discuss everything"?? Really?

  Will you email him to arrange an appointment in the sitting room, or  just wait in the bathroom until he gets bored and comes to find you?

She's 3. He's a bastard.

@WaltzingBetty

Using force as a default parenting strategy is piss poor.

When you add in the dynamic that he's a man teaching his daughter that she should 'submit' to bigger/stronger makes it becomes more toxic. His behaviour to her will influence her behaviour to men later in life. He should be empowering her not teaching her to do what the 'big man' says

Yes I agree, it's this part I find disturbing, does he want her growing up submitting to men just because they are bigger/ stronger? I don't think you are over reacting at all! I would be seriously worried about his parenting too!

Maybe point out to him that she may grow up thinking it's normal to be bossed around by men/boys

It does look like from your posts you do fly off the handle at your DH and tiptoe around your DD because of your own past.

Your DH sounds like he is at the end of his tether being the bad guy and sees you as pandering to your three year old.

I've got a three year old, she is bright and sharp as tac and would run rings around me if I waited patiently for her to decide to brush her teeth. I am the stricter parent, but she then does as I ask her to and Dh is the one exhausted as she will ask for him to help her wipe bottom/put her to bed/read just one (millionth) more story before she goes to bed/give her one more hug so she can sleep etc.

Could you and your DH look into doing parenting courses or something? At the moment you both sound like your on the opposite ends of parenting scales. And you're both getting angry with each other.

I once had enough of being the bad parent, and spent a blissful weekend handing DD over to DH, because that's what she wanted and DH did exactly as she wanted, he was so tired and got nothing done that day.
We had a massive conversation that day and he admitted he did not want to replicate his father's parenting as he absolutely hated his dad growing up.

We parent in the middle now. Both of us have agreed on non-negotiable behaviour, and time scales we need things done by. I can guarantee that if I left my three year old to come back to me at her own leisure, she would be chasing the cats around the house or going into her sisters room or something till the morning hours.

Also get an electric toothbrush, DD quite enjoys brushing her teeth with (a Disney Frozen) one, then I go over her teeth quickly when she's done.

You both need to talk, face to face without losing your temper.

What I am finding really interesting is the fact the OP's DH just refuses to listen to the OP despite the fact she has the experience and he hasn't.

If roles were reversed and let's say he was a mechanic with 20 years experience and the OP had started to use a car about 3 years ago, would be be happy to see her fiddle with the brakes in a way that could be unsafe? Would he expect her to listen to him and his advice on how to 'repair' the brakes? Im sure he would just as everyone else on this thread.
But somehow, in this case, the OP has loads of experience in child managemnet, her DH very little but her DH is expecting her to listen to him and say that his ways are good enough (even if they aren't).

Umm, if you told a dentist that a child who was their patient had been verbally threatened and forcefully held down by a man 10 times their size, they would have a safeguarding duty to that child to ring social services.

Verbally threatened 😂 kids get threatened with stuff every day "if you don't do X, then Y". Whole idea of Father Christmas delivering children to good kids is a threat to behave or go without.

Delivering children.

Presents...

Has anything changed in your husbands life? As you say he is 50, and it maybe that he is going through some kind of midlife crisis and doesn’t know how to get himself out of feeling like crap.

He’s good at turning things around so they become about me and my anger so this avoids that.
Typically he hadn’t even acknowledged my email that was sent at 12 last night. His little game.

THAT is a cause for concern too. He clearly think it's OK to bully people (or women? younger or older) into agreing with him.
Yes he might have had a diffocult childhood etc.. however this is a reason not an excuse. It doesn't mean he is then allowed to reproduced those very unhelpful behaviours.

I totally get what you are saying about not wanting your dd to learn that you have to bow to men/someone stronger and that, somehow, if they become a bully, this will be HER fault. This is something very specific that women have to face on a dialy basis. And i would be keen to teach a girl that she is worth more than that.
Just like some of the things I have taught my dcs were specific to them being boys (to try and counterbalance the workd we are living in).

OP you sound like you have a lot of insight (BTW I would have pushed the bullying bastard as well). Do you really want to stay with this man?

@Callardandbowser, would it be worth asking him to do what a PP is doing with her dd and let your dd brush HIS teeth so he can exoerience how uncomfortable this can be? or if you do it to im (even as an adult been careful, its not nice).

I'm thinking that he needs to have a personal experience of it before he will accept to change his attitude. This could help in this particular situation (though I am aware ot doesnt solve the deeper issue there)

I agree with your parenting techniques, they’re ones I would use. You say several times about how good your daughter is, but even if she wasn’t your husbands parenting techniques would not be okay.
However, do you realise how unhealthy it is that you can’t actually speak to dh about anything contentious? This is a bad role model of a relationship for your dd as she gets older and you must realise that your relationship will form the basis of what she considers acceptable behaviour. He sounds highly manipulative if you are unable to discuss certain issues verbally. I think this is the crux of the problem.

I remember a nurse pinning my daughter down when she had to take some medicine. She taught me to do it in a safe way. Sadly my daughter either took the medicine orally. Or it would of been injected some 5 times a day.

Guess what. When I was a nurse, we did restrain children to do treatments. It's not abuse.

Parents wait outside while lines are inserted, stitches given, etc. Soft restraints to prevent children pulling stuff out.

For goodness sake, 9 pages in and people are still arguing about childhood dentistry and being ridiculously defensive because the op has touched a nerve. Helpful.

Somebody making different decisions and having different priorities isn't a personal attack. The op didn't deserve to be attacked like this just because posters don't know how to manage their own discomfort about her choices and values being different to theirs.

It does look like from your posts you do fly off the handle at your DH and tiptoe around your DD because of your own past.

That's a bit of an Olympian leap from what has actually been described, isn't it?

@SimonJT

Bit off topic. But I'm so sorry. I've been there with the medication thing. It's horrific. I just wanted to send hugs. Some medications are time sensitive. Not many. But there are some that HAVE to be done at a certain time. I've been there. I understand

@Meuniere

And btw *@SimonJT*, before pinning child down, you can also disguise, put into food etc...

I've done a lot of that for my own dcs when they had some health issues. Even though the medication they were taking was foul (I mean really foul, ABs are like sweet compare to those), they learn to take them. Granted they won't tuch the stuff now that they are teens and probably won't unless they have no other choice. But they did and I never had to use force.

They child had sepsis

I'd say that was pretty much life or death.