DD and boyfriend -- has anyone ever successfully got past this?

[thepeopleversuswork]

Please be gentle with me on this: I know its a contentious subject and lots of you will say I shouldn't be dating at all, but its causing me a lot of heartache at the moment.

Have been with my boyfriend for two years. We don't live together. I have a 9 year old DD. When I first met him I was very clear that we had to take things very slowly -- she didn't meet him for six months etc and moving in was not on the horizon any time in the short to medium term. For about the next six months he stayed at mine once a week. After about a year I slowly started to increase this so he was staying two nights a week. Then lockdown happened and we didn't see each other for nearly four months. We slowly started seeing one another in the summer.

DD's dad is under an injunction due to previous DV so she can't stay at his: the only time I get time away from her is with sleepovers etc, which obviously isn't allowed at the moment. And this, combined with lockdown, means the only way I can see him at the moment is if he comes to my house.

DD has become marginally more tolerant of my bf over time but basically she would rather he wasn't around. She is adamant that she doesn't want my bf staying at mine. After lockdown ended and when I first started seeing him again I anticipated this and told him he couldn't stay more than one night a week and would need to leave early in the mornings. He's been very accepting of this. He has generally been incredibly patient about everything.

DD is still very unhappy about him being in my life at all. She's had outbursts at him within minutes of his arriving and asked him to leave the house and he's always gone along with this. I've talked to her about it and she basically says she wants him to go away and doesn't want to share me with him. I asked her if she could ever imagine a scenario where he lived with us and she said no.

I've done some soul searching to think if there is anything he has done which could have upset or frightened her and there genuinely has been nothing. I've been incredibly careful about making sure she and I have plenty of quality time together on our own, he's rarely here for long during daylight hours and so forth. She obviously would prefer if I was back with her dad, but we have been separated since she was just four, so it isn't a new scenario.

I'm really agonising over how to deal with this now. When we first got together I anticipated that if I took things slowly and if he was patient with her she would eventually start to come around to him and she is still, two years in, pretty hostile to him. It's so difficult because he's incredibly patient and respectful and she is frankly horrible to him. He's still very kind and accepting of it but I can't help thinking eventually he will run out of patience.

The bottom line is that she comes first and if push comes to shove I would and will drop him for her, absolutely no question. But I feel like if she can't accept someone who is so obviously supportive of her and loves me, she may never accept anyone else. Maybe the reality is I have to make peace with the fact that I won't be able to have a relationship with someone until she has moved out.

I'm just curious to know if anyone else has been through something similar and got past it, how long it took and generally if anyone has any advice?

Op I apologise if that sounded blunt, that was not my intention. I just keep seeing you saying that he needs to earn his place etc and only gets to be a addition to the 'real' family and a someone that had been treated like this in the past it is extremely painful, especially when you are trying so hard as your dp is, and really hit a nerve with me.

Dontknownow86

Fair enough. I'm acutely aware of how patient and understanding he has been and how unfair it is to him. I've said many times that I know he's gone a lot further than most men would in terms of the things he will tolerate etc. The last thing I want to do is make him feel discarded or ignored.

I already commented earlier, but can I just add re the situation with her dad that I understand. My childs father is also in the picture (unsupervised access). There are lots of people I know that suggest I put my foot down with him and reduce contact, or that I leave the country to go home. The thing is legally neither of these are actual options, so for better or worse I deal with the situation which is a father who, fortunately loves his son and treats him well enough, but who bad mouths me constantly. I think there is so much Fathers for Justice propaganda that suggests cruel parents are severing contacts with fathers on the merest hint of DV that people think it must be very easy for mothers to do this. The reality is very different. So I think you are doing the right thing by remaining a stable presence in your childs life and facilitating contact as ordered by court.
I also wanted to say that, while I agreed with others that you may be giving your daughter a bit too much power, it is very clear that you have been consistently putting her first where it matters and carefully considering the effects of your decisions on her despite what I imagine has been a very difficult time for you. So please dont take the criticism as a suggestion you arent a good mother because you absolutely, obviously are.

Wonder if biological father is manipulating both your daughter (and you by default) by bad mouthing your partner. I think your daughter is feeling in the middle? Maybe I'm way off base here but perhaps sharing with her that her father treated you to the point you weren't emotionally safe to remain together enough to paint a picture without excess baggage

OP no direct experience of this and you've already had some excellent advice, but I am a bit curious about your DD's relationship with her father and how, as other PPs have said, it might be at the root of much of this.
You split from her dad when she was only 4, and she's now 9. So for more than half her life you've been split. Presumably she can only vaguely remember you being together, if at all.
Has she only had weekly, supervised contact with him since then? How do they otherwise communicate? How long was the period when she didn't see him and was, as you say, distraught?
Maybe I'm totally off but I find it hard to imagine how she seems to have such a close relationship with him that he's able to manipulate her into stealing?

OP I have been in your exact position. ie new partner when DD was 9. Me and DD very close. Ex husband a pita but not to the point of yours - it was his new (now ex) wife who wasnt allowed to be around DD due to abuse.

Anyway, I get it completely. The bond in a home between single mum and single daughter is like absolute glue.

Cavagirl

She doesn't technically have any access to him at all at the moment. She did for some time after the split because he lived locally and they wanted to see one another and I was single so it was fine for me to facilitate it. We never had a formalised access agreement agreed because he was too chaotic to sign up to it but I facilitated it by allowing them to meet in cafes and so forth and being with her.

18 months ago there was an incident where he made a death threat against me (over the phone and my DD wasn't in the house at the time) and then turned himself into the police. I sought - -and was awarded -- an injunction against him approaching me which was in place for the year but the judge who issued the injunction stopped short of saying he wasn't allowed any access to her and in fact required me to allow supervised access.

So we are in this weird legal grey area whereby he is allowed access to her on a supervised basis but not to me and it is also mandated that I had to allow him access. But in practice this is impossible to manage because I can't find anyone who can manage the visits: I don't have any family living nearby and all of my friends work or have small children or both and there just isn't anyone who can commit to this. The only other option technically open to me was through social services contact centres but that would have been unfeasible due to my work schedule and would have cost a fortune. So for a while I was having to provide this access even though he was technically not allowed to be in contact with me.

The reason I chose to allow the contact was a) my daughter was distraught at not being able to see him and b) because I'd been ordered to provide some level of access but without anyone actually facilitating the way it would happen it was the only way I could meet that requirement. Its a nightmare but it was the only way I could make it happen. I made sure we met in public areas etc. He has threatened me in the past but I am fairly sure he's not a danger to me on an ongoing basis, just a pain in the arse and I was willing to take that on the chin to allow them to maintain a relationship. The injunction has now technically expired but due to his probation he's effectively not allowed to approach me until the end of this year and subject to a review.

Then obviously COVID happened and lockdowns and she's only seen her dad a handful of times since March, always with me and in public places (basically parks) for limited periods of time.

She still speaks to him on the phone fairly regularly -- 2 or 3 times a week. Always with me on the phone.

Her level of contact with him has actually declined gradually and she no longer really "misses" him in the way she did when the injunction went into place. Despite the bursts of antagonism towards my bf she has over time become more receptive to him. About 80% of the time she tolerates or is more or less friendly to him and the outbursts have got fewer and fewer.

We're still a long way from a harmonious situation but it has improved and she is more used to the idea that my bf is my "other half". In the scheme of things, it is improving and she is much more stable and happy than she was when the injunction went into place. So there is progress. But its still far from where I would like it.

It sounds like it is heading in the right direction and I would just very slowly increase the time your DP spends with you/DD. Don't tolerate the rudeness or let her call the shots as such.

The outbursts may actually be more to do with her conflicting feels which that book is very good explaining. That she has tricky feelings - sadness that you aren't with her Dad, guilt that she actually thinks DP is ok, jealousy that she has to share you etc.

What the book does say is that children naming these feelings actually helps them manage them and takes away their power.

So she gets angry wants DP to go home sure let her rant to you about how she feels and what she wants, reflect back to her so she knows she's heard "you wish DP hadn't come today?" "What else do you wish was different?"

She may actually make better peace with the situation by being able to verbalise and tell you just what she is feeling inside.

Anyway get the book!! You may get a shit storm of emotion out of her mouth but she will actually more likely to be happier with the status quo once it's out there.

OP, you sound like you are trying really hard to manage a difficult situation. Perhaps it would help if you consider how you would (or would not) allow DD to treat a female friend who came over for dinner. Whatever behaviour you would expect (eg basic manners) in that situation you should also be expecting on the one night per week your boyfriend is over.

It is obviously right that DD is your priority, but that includes teaching her the non-negotiables and helping her to recognise that other people (eg you) have their own needs. You wouldn't want her trying to dictate who her friends are allowed to be friends with, so you shouldn't allow her to do it to you.

So you haven't rushed. And she hasn't seen you go through this before. Unless there is something off about your BF it sounds like it's fear of losing you. I would go for love bombing and reassurance but not allowing her to be rude to your BF or sending him home. And definitely introducing something fun they do together. Can you bump into him at the park and make sure he gets stuck in with something she enjoys doing. Or praising her for getting to the top of the climbing frame etc.

She's young enough for you to take charge and start to warm up to the idea of you having a bf.

Teenagers are a bit trickier!

Hi OP
Thanks for such a long reply. What a nightmare. Sorry I didn't mean to derail this to talking about your ex but it does seem quite relevant.

If he's barely seen her since March and only with you there, and they only talk on the phone with you also on the line, how is he managing to tell her to steal from your bf? And bad-mouthing him to her? Do they have other methods of communication?
And why is it down to you, not him, to figure out how to manage the access? Or is that the way you'd prefer it? I can imagine it might be weird for your daughter meeting daddy with mummy, but they aren't together anymore... perhaps it's not unconnected that the reason things are improving with your DP are because she hasn't seen her dad very much this year.

I think it must have been confusing for DD that you have always been there supervising contact - the 3 of you back together... meanwhile you also have a boyfriend!

I too think you need to hand it over to your ex to sort out and if need be to pay for supervised contact if it is still in place. It sounds like your DD may be happier because of the reduced contact because her loyalties are being less conflicted?

Thanks all.

RandomMess supervised SS contact just wasn't possible at the time mainly due to the hours: it would have meant having to leave work early once a week to facilitate and my employer wouldn't agree to it. It's a moot point now due to lockdown and it may be possible when things open up again but it is a huge extra level of administrative hassle and cost to me (he can't pay) and it would upset her having to see him in an institutional setting etc. Also if I insisted it had to be done via SS it would antagonise him and he would probably escalate verbal abuse towards me. It may sound like a copout but I'd prefer to bite the bullet and supervise it myself - the grief of it far outweighed the benefit.

Again, I don't really need to worry about it for now but I'll deal with it when I have to.

Notcoolmum she does do some stuff with the bf and actually they have their moments when they get on ok. All fairly limited at the moment due to lockdown and it tends to be online stuff but its something.

Yep I can imagine the hassle lets hope his interest continues to dwindle and he can pop up as the occasional Disney Dad and nothing more...

Op , I have read all your posts and can relate somewhat and looking back I wish I had handled things differently. I split up with my ex when my son was 6 and met my partner when he was 8. My ds and bf were not introduced for about 10 months and we took it very slow , my other 2 dc warmed to him ( one was 4 one was 10) but my 8 year old wouldn't accept him at all. I constantly felt like I was walking on tenterhooks around my own son which was ridiculous , I worried what insults we would get next , what demands he would make. It got to the point where my bf would come round when my son was at his dads , which was once in the week and a few hours on a Sunday. It got to the point where 2 months had passed and they hadn't seen each other and I just thought this isn't going to work long term , how can it when 2 people I love can't be in the same room without an issue/bad atmosphere. So I ended the relationship, at this point we had been together 3 years. I was upset and had a chat with my dad who pointed out it didn't matter who I had a relationship with my ds was never going to welcome them with open arms and all I was doing was delaying this situation all over again with a new relationship however long down the line that was and that my bf was a decent kind person and that my son was just going to have to accept it. So after a long heart to heart we got back together , took it slowly again - had days out all together and slowly the rudeness stopped and my ds realised mums bf was actually a fun lovely person . Fast forward 2 years he moved in , 3 years later we had a baby and are now married. My dh and son get on great, they watch football together , my ds cooks for them both if I'm not here. Sorry if this is long op , but please don't be like me and let her rule the house , your bf sounds patient and kind . Make it clear her behaviour is unacceptable and when you can , arrange fun things to do altogether so she can realise he isn't stealing you away from her you can actually all enjoy each other's company and that he is an asset to both of your lives.

Thanks again everyone

I would just keep on the way you are OP. Your bf sounds lovely and very patient, and you obviously care about him.

Personally I think it was a mistake of him to leave the house when your daughter asked him as she does need to understand that he's your partner and is there because you want him there, but that he's no threat to your relationship with her.

I worry that the judge found the threat serious enough to warrant an injunction, yet in order to facilitate DD seeing her dad, you pretty much ignored it.

I'm really glad nothing happened to you, but one of my roles supports DA victims and it hasn't always ended so well for them, because they truly never believed their Ex would be as violent as they ended being and they ignored the threats.

Hi OP

I can completely sympathise with you, i have a 9 year old who cam be exactly the same, difference is when me and my and my partner got together he already had a son a couple of years older so that was a but of a novelty. After a year i became pregnant and so they ended up with a sister and then we all moved into a bigger house where we share 50/50 with his step brother. Now it sounds all rosy but trust me we still have moments of madness where my DS is a royal pain in the ass for no reason other than he would like it to be me and him on our own. Now I appreciate he wants me too himself, but his dad and i split up when he was 18 months old, he hasnt seen him since he was 3 and he was 6 when DP and i got together. I spent 5 year on my own putting my childs needs first, but when i met DP we instantly had a great connection and are literally a match made in heaven so no matter how much he plays up about stupid things, basically not getting his own way, we manage it as a team and he is told off for his behaviour. We remove his ps4 etc. My DP has the patience of a saint when he starts with his i hate yous, get out my room, you cant tell me what to dos, but we stick together and get through it, he gets over it quick enough. You have to be happy too, one day she will be old enough for her own life and you will be left alone, thats what i used to think anyway. I find its all about the right kind of attention, he loves it when hes on his own with DP but when were together its like he just has to play up for the sake of it, not all the time. Maybe start them off having their own time together and building a relationship that way, dont throw your relationship away because your child cant handle sharing you. My son is currently upstairs laughing his head off with DP and SB having the time of his life, in about an hour when hes told to get in the bath it will be a different story 😂😂😂

@pumpkinpie01

Op , I have read all your posts and can relate somewhat and looking back I wish I had handled things differently. I split up with my ex when my son was 6 and met my partner when he was 8. My ds and bf were not introduced for about 10 months and we took it very slow , my other 2 dc warmed to him ( one was 4 one was 10) but my 8 year old wouldn't accept him at all. I constantly felt like I was walking on tenterhooks around my own son which was ridiculous , I worried what insults we would get next , what demands he would make. It got to the point where my bf would come round when my son was at his dads , which was once in the week and a few hours on a Sunday. It got to the point where 2 months had passed and they hadn't seen each other and I just thought this isn't going to work long term , how can it when 2 people I love can't be in the same room without an issue/bad atmosphere. So I ended the relationship, at this point we had been together 3 years. I was upset and had a chat with my dad who pointed out it didn't matter who I had a relationship with my ds was never going to welcome them with open arms and all I was doing was delaying this situation all over again with a new relationship however long down the line that was and that my bf was a decent kind person and that my son was just going to have to accept it. So after a long heart to heart we got back together , took it slowly again - had days out all together and slowly the rudeness stopped and my ds realised mums bf was actually a fun lovely person . Fast forward 2 years he moved in , 3 years later we had a baby and are now married. My dh and son get on great, they watch football together , my ds cooks for them both if I'm not here. Sorry if this is long op , but please don't be like me and let her rule the house , your bf sounds patient and kind . Make it clear her behaviour is unacceptable and when you can , arrange fun things to do altogether so she can realise he isn't stealing you away from her you can actually all enjoy each other's company and that he is an asset to both of your lives.

OP this is probably the most important post on this thread.....

My experience is also similar to others, my kids were 4 and 6 when their dad and I split and I was on my own for about 4 years with them before meeting my partner 6.5 years ago.

There were certainly some power struggles teething problems from the kids at the start and I was tempted to call it off at one stage as like you OP I am fiercely independent and felt it was all going to be too much hassle, funnily enough it was my ex that told me not to be hasty and wait it out.

I'm glad I did because things are good now, I always make time for the kids and usually will be doing something with them rather than my boyfriend if we're all in the house together, although they're teenagers now and less bothered about hanging around with their old dear!

Incidentally their dad moved his OW girlfriend in almost as soon as we split, and as far as I'm aware the kids never said a word about it - that's what it means to be a mum though I suppose, you always get the brunt of the shit!

I think the counselling is key. Have you spoken to the counsellor? I think that DD needs to be taught to recognise any manipulative behaviour from her dad and that you, her mum is allowed to have a life (whether it’s work, bf, hobbies, studying etc).
I think the rudeness stems from her dad influencing her negatively. And while that is being worked on (if it is) you can also start consciously setting your boundaries.

Hi OP,

I hope this thread has given you some clarity in order to move forward for both yourself and DD.

We all want to be the best parent we can be, but I think part of that is acknowledging that as a parent we also have needs that sometimes conflict with what children want.

Both you and your DD stand to benefit from you being in a happy relationship, conducted at your pace, with consideration for your DD but not under her control and certainly not in a way that means she "benefits" from rude/nasty behaviour.

You sound like a lovely person whose been through a tough time and it's understandable that you instinctively feel a need to over-compensate.

However it's important to understand that this is what you are doing and no one is a winner in that scenario.

Good luck

I wonder if kids who hear "you'll always come first" interpret that as "I am first".

Sometimes we look for and actively anticipate neurosis and damage in our kids when there is none.

My friends parents split up and her mum met someone else years later. Her dad had remarried at that point and my friend was fine with her step mum. She hated her mums partner and 20 years later she still hates him.

She behaved terribly to him. Phoned his house at 2am to prank him, cut his clothes up, screamed in his face, scratched his CDs, ripped up Christmas and birthday cards he gave her, threw away dinners he had made her, took what he said/did and twisted it to fit her agenda and filled her brother in on it. I really felt for her mums partner because he was nothing but patient and lovely. They are still together.

Her mum has never got remarried even though her partner would love to marry her (proposed several times and been told no) all because her now grown up children don't like him. For no reason. She can't tell you why she doesn't like him.

You've handled this situation great but you need to sort your daughters behaviour towards your partner out unless you want it to become a situation like my friends. We were 13 when her mum met her new partner and my friend is 37. It is still an ongoing situation.