DD and boyfriend -- has anyone ever successfully got past this?

[thepeopleversuswork]

Please be gentle with me on this: I know its a contentious subject and lots of you will say I shouldn't be dating at all, but its causing me a lot of heartache at the moment.

Have been with my boyfriend for two years. We don't live together. I have a 9 year old DD. When I first met him I was very clear that we had to take things very slowly -- she didn't meet him for six months etc and moving in was not on the horizon any time in the short to medium term. For about the next six months he stayed at mine once a week. After about a year I slowly started to increase this so he was staying two nights a week. Then lockdown happened and we didn't see each other for nearly four months. We slowly started seeing one another in the summer.

DD's dad is under an injunction due to previous DV so she can't stay at his: the only time I get time away from her is with sleepovers etc, which obviously isn't allowed at the moment. And this, combined with lockdown, means the only way I can see him at the moment is if he comes to my house.

DD has become marginally more tolerant of my bf over time but basically she would rather he wasn't around. She is adamant that she doesn't want my bf staying at mine. After lockdown ended and when I first started seeing him again I anticipated this and told him he couldn't stay more than one night a week and would need to leave early in the mornings. He's been very accepting of this. He has generally been incredibly patient about everything.

DD is still very unhappy about him being in my life at all. She's had outbursts at him within minutes of his arriving and asked him to leave the house and he's always gone along with this. I've talked to her about it and she basically says she wants him to go away and doesn't want to share me with him. I asked her if she could ever imagine a scenario where he lived with us and she said no.

I've done some soul searching to think if there is anything he has done which could have upset or frightened her and there genuinely has been nothing. I've been incredibly careful about making sure she and I have plenty of quality time together on our own, he's rarely here for long during daylight hours and so forth. She obviously would prefer if I was back with her dad, but we have been separated since she was just four, so it isn't a new scenario.

I'm really agonising over how to deal with this now. When we first got together I anticipated that if I took things slowly and if he was patient with her she would eventually start to come around to him and she is still, two years in, pretty hostile to him. It's so difficult because he's incredibly patient and respectful and she is frankly horrible to him. He's still very kind and accepting of it but I can't help thinking eventually he will run out of patience.

The bottom line is that she comes first and if push comes to shove I would and will drop him for her, absolutely no question. But I feel like if she can't accept someone who is so obviously supportive of her and loves me, she may never accept anyone else. Maybe the reality is I have to make peace with the fact that I won't be able to have a relationship with someone until she has moved out.

I'm just curious to know if anyone else has been through something similar and got past it, how long it took and generally if anyone has any advice?

It was just me and my dd until she was 6. Everyone thought I was being really unfair to her when I met someone and wanted to start a family with them. I was 18 when I had my dd and I love her dearly but will not put my life on hold so as to accommodate what she would like, she shouldn't have that much control over my life. She is very well looked after, she's a well rounded 10 year old now and she's still my best friend but meeting oh has brought so much to both of our lives. We've had so many holidays we would never have gone on if it were just me, she has 2 little brothers she adores, she now has OH and his family who love her and treat her like their own. Dont be afraid to live your life! Of course she doesn't want him around, she doesn't want to share you. You've done really well keeping the lines of communication open with her but my dd is so happy with the choices I made for us and has a lovely enriched life as a result. If I'd let her choose it would always just be the 2 of us.

yetanothernamitynamechange the thing is though that its very difficult for me to spend any time with him if he doesn't stay over. I have one friend who she can stay with under normal circumstances but not at the moment. I don't have shared residence with her dad and at the moment we can't even go out on dates. So this is literally the only way to maintain the relationship at the moment. I mean yes he could go home every night and sometimes has done but its a pretty miserable way to live indefinitely.

Also as a side note I was very bratty to my stepmom when she married my dad, we get on well now (she is a lovely person) an I do feel guilty for how I acted. But I wasn’t traumatized by my dad remarrying.

From your latest update it’s very clear that her father is the root of this problem, then.

By the way I don’t think you should have been furious with her (if you mean directly to her) for stealing your boyfriend’s phone charger when she was asked to do so by her father - I don’t mean you shouldn’t have told her how wrong this is and that it was a bad thing to do, but poor bloody child being so manipulated by someone who’s meant to care for her. I think she will be forever be damaged in this way for as long as her father is in her life, sadly. A shitty abusive father (and that manipulative behaviour towards her is abusive) is worse than having no father in her life. I would do everything possible to remove him from her life.

Yes that’s tough, I realised after posting that I might be influenced by the fact my flat is tiny, so it would be awkward unless everyone’s 100% comfortable. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with him staying over so long as (and sorry to lower the tone) there is no chance of her hearing you having sex etc. actually at nine years old that might be what she’s worried about

Thisisnotnormal69 its really tricky. If I had my way he would leave our lives and never come back. But during the period when he was subject to the injunction she was absolutely heartbroken.

I know her life would be a lot more harmonious without him and I sometimes wish he would just quietly slip away. But I can't be the one to instigate it.

Do you think deep down she could be scared of liking your partner and then being scared he will leave it there will be another acrimonious split? So she is preventing getting close or your relationship progressing. I would maybe talk to her about this and say your partner would like to spend some time with both you and her, pizza night, board game, something she enjoys. So she is included, rather than you just seeing him when she’s asleep which could feel to her more like he is taking you away from her. If she sees her relationship with him as important it may help her feel more central and in control, rather than on the periphery. It seems to me like she is scared of losing you and scared of the past repeating/not knowing what to expect.

You sound like my friend who had two daughters, she divorced met a man they did not live together for ten years because of the daughters awful behaviour. They got engaged when the youngest went to university. They then married, the daughters had grown into young women who to be honest were still absolute cows towards the loveliest kindest most gentle man, unlike their father who was a drunk, physically violent, when he was around hence the divorce.

My friend sadly died leaving her husband bereft. These daughters when he was out stripped the house of anything valuable that had been their mums without a by your leave. They are now in their thirties, single, bitchy and not someone I would want my sons to marry.

The moral of this story is make sure your daughter is not rude to him, but learns some manners or you may find you do not like the woman she becomes.

I’m thinking, maybe meeting him outside the home. Day trips together, a visit to a zoo, or go out for ice cream. Normal day to day things that a family would do together. Include her in activities with him.
I hope something works out for you all.

Yes she will be heartbroken, but you are her mother and need to make the tough decisions that are in her best interests in the long term.

OP your update about your Ex makes it even more imperative that you put your foot down with your DD.

You cannot allow her to grow up in a dynamic where your Ex gains positive (in his view) traction by using your DD to manipulate you.

He's going to keep doing it if it works.

Also your DD needs to learn that her fathers opinion (on someone I presume he's never met) doesn't hold more weight than your opinion.

He is not the final arbiter on your life.

His "say" is not the most important here.

What he thinks about you, your BF and anyone else in your life is irrelevant.

You're teaching her that he still has power over you by "using" her - that's all shades of fucked up.

You've obviously thought hard about her still having contact with him and so I won't comment further on that - but what you've absolutely got to stop is that contact being used to exert control over you and thus encouraging him to use your DD as a conduit for continuing his abuse.

DeRigueurMortis

I agree with you. I've been having this conversation with her. But its really difficult. The option of cutting him out of my life legally again is simply too damaging to her (and too expensive to me) to contemplate.

My strategy has been to keep him at arms' length but to allow for them to have a relationship. I've been trying to walk the line between doing this but insisting that I have a right to move on in my life with her. But obviously I haven't been clear enough with her.

An old friend of ours has remarried to a woman who has a daughter in her late teens. She is an only child and is making their lives an absolute misery . She resents him and wants her mother to herself. Even as an adult she is rude and nasty to him, he is nothing but kind and loving. It’s making things incredibly difficult.
Of course your situation is very different, but don’t let this go ion and spoil your relationship with your bf. You are both being very considerate and sensitive, but she needs to accept that this is a man you love who will be a part of all your lives from now on. Rudeness shouldn’t be tolerated.
As she gets older she will be out overnight more at friends etc. Meanwhile, lay down some ground rules and be firm.

Totally agree with @DeRigueurMortis’s very wise posts.

My goodness I'm surprised your partner puts up with that sort of behaviour from your DD, I certainly wouldn't be sticking around.
Your intentions are great and of course your DD should come first but you are also entitled to some happiness.
Start putting boundaries in place now before it's to late

Her dad is poisonous...do not allow her to be rude. She needs to learn that while she may not like him, she doesn’t get to be rude to him.

You having him in your life doesn’t mean you love her less and she needs to hear that as much as possible.

It's hard when she's being manipulated, but perhaps little examples that she can understand regarding her behaviour would be helpful.

Do you have any family members near you that she can stay with? You could do with a break from her now and again, even in lockdown.

@DeRigueurMortis

Ok I'm going to put my steel pants on for this one.....

Imho you've handled the situation appropriately apart from one aspect and that's putting up with your DD's behaviour for so long.

Her being rude to him within minutes of him being in the house is unacceptable.

You're teaching her that she can use your love for her to manipulate you and bend you to her will. That's not a good life lesson.

You're a mother not a martyr.

You shouldn't be expected to remove someone you presumably have strong feelings for (who by all accounts has been understanding and kind wrt your DD) from your life.

In truth when she's older and more mature I'll bet she looks back on her behaviour with regret.

In you're position I'd be inclined to sit her down and simply say that you're not putting up with her antics any more.

I'm not suggesting he moves in, but I think you need a zero tolerance on her rudeness and her being able to force your boyfriend to leave because she demands it.

I think because you allow her so much control in this regard she's never going to come to terms with you having a boyfriend because of course for her the best in her eyes is to have Mum to herself and all you've taught her is that what she wants goes - so of course she's going to push for all she can get and carry on as she has been doing.

What she doesn't appreciate is that having a happy, well supported, well loved Mum is the thing that's in her best interests.

Essentially this, to be honest.

Are there any positive, healthy, kind men in her life?

I don't think there's anything wrong with saying "daddy's being silly again" when he bad mouths you or people in your life. If you don't make a big deal of it, she won't either.

My strategy has been to keep him at arms' length but to allow for them to have a relationship. I've been trying to walk the line between doing this but insisting that I have a right to move on in my life with her. But obviously I haven't been clear enough with her.

I'd gently suggest that's because your actions are not in sync with your words.

You absolutely have a right to move on with your life without him but by the same token are letting your DD run your BF out of the house by being rude and demanding.

In short you're demonstrating that you don't have the right to move in without your Ex's approval as articulated through his manipulation of your DD.

I think you're trying so hard to walk the line you don't realise it's a line that's leading to nowhere good for your or your DD.

Of course we want our children to be happy but the truth is that to make them happy they need to have boundaries. Happiness in the grand scheme of things isn't an "in the moment" emotion.

The attitude that as a parent our job is to always keep children happy is very dangerous.

We need to keep them safe. We need to ensure their needs are met. We need to ensure they have empathy for others. We need to teach them respect and to be able to listen to conflicting views and form their own opinions based on courteous debate.

It's not to pander to every "want" or "preference". It's about making tough choices that we know they won't "like" but actually "need" to experience in order to mature as an individual.

One of the biggest influences we have as parents is to be a good role model.

Demonstrating that as a woman you have a right to a life beyond that of a failed (abusive) relationship and that the man involved doesn't get to continue to control you is one of the best things you can do for your DD.

@thepeopleversuswork

In response to some of you yes her father has bad-mouthed my boyfriend to her -- when I first introduced him to her (about six/seven months in) she stole his mobile phone charger and I got it it out of her later that her dad had specifically instructed her to do this. I was furious with her and I made her apologise to him.

DD's dad also phoned social services and told them that my boyfriend had sought to go into my DD's bedroom. This was completely false -- at that point he'd never even been in my flat at the same time as her and certainly not into her bedroom. Social services dropped it and it was treated as a malicious complaint.

There have since been other more trivial incidents. My ex has now accepted that I have a boyfriend but he is constantly seeking to imply in minor ways that he is a bad influence and that I am a bad mother.

Dealing with my ex is frankly a complete nightmare. I've chosen maybe this was a mistake to have him in our lives at a distance, as opposed to completely cutting him off. Partly because I can't afford a second injunction and partly because she was distraught when she wasn't allowed to see him. He's no longer a danger to me and I'd rather maintain a superficially cordial relationship with him at a distance.

he price of having him "on side" is that he gets to carp at the margins and occasionally make snide comments to her. Its shit and for me its a minor irritant but I'm aware it is possibly confusing for her. But I'm not going to push him out of her life again. It is what it is.

You don't have to push him out of her life, but you shouldn't be pretending to be friends with him either.

You can tell her he loves her whilst being (reasonably) honest about how he treated you

I guess I'm repeating previous posters, but here goes.

Your child is nine. Nine.

Your child is allowed not only to be rude to your guest (and it matters not who the guest is), but also is allowed to tell your guest to leave your home.

The only things which are more shocking is that you let her do this and your boyfriend leaves when told to go by a nine year old.

How long do you think he'll keep obeying that 9 year old before he gets totally pissed with her and leaves for good?
.

I think you’ve tip toed around her so much that she thinks she’s the boss, her behaviour is ridiculous; demanding he leaves the house and you both go along with it!!!
You’ve created a tyrant, you’re a parent not a slave to ever demands. Time for some
rules and boundaries, if you let this go on at 9, good luck when’s she’s 12/13!

There is a big difference in expecting a child to be polite to someone visiting for a few hours versus someone who has the potential to change the entire dynamic of the household. I think you need to reassure her that 1) she will only have to answer to one adult and 2) he will not be moving in unless someday that is something both you and your dd want.

I think you need to sit her down for a little chat, try to find out what her dad has been telling her about your DP and gently and lovingly explain that it’s not true. That daddy made mummy unhappy, your DP makes her happy and wants to be a good friend to your DD if he’s only given the chance - and for that reason he will continue to be in your lives, how will that make her feel etc. Respond to her concerns but also make it clear the rudeness will have to stop and that she doesn’t have to do what her dad tells her to if he’s asking her to be mean to someone. She’s in a difficult position, poor thing, torn between pleasing both of you, I imagine. At the moment her dad’s winning out because he’s the one piling on pressure.

I’d also make it abundantly clear to your DP that you’re taking decisive action - he obviously cares about you enormously to put up with the situation for so long!!

I say this (as my user name suggests) as someone without kids of my own so excuse me if I’m off the mark. I’m a step mum myself so I’m coming at it from a different perspective.