DD and boyfriend -- has anyone ever successfully got past this?

[thepeopleversuswork]

Please be gentle with me on this: I know its a contentious subject and lots of you will say I shouldn't be dating at all, but its causing me a lot of heartache at the moment.

Have been with my boyfriend for two years. We don't live together. I have a 9 year old DD. When I first met him I was very clear that we had to take things very slowly -- she didn't meet him for six months etc and moving in was not on the horizon any time in the short to medium term. For about the next six months he stayed at mine once a week. After about a year I slowly started to increase this so he was staying two nights a week. Then lockdown happened and we didn't see each other for nearly four months. We slowly started seeing one another in the summer.

DD's dad is under an injunction due to previous DV so she can't stay at his: the only time I get time away from her is with sleepovers etc, which obviously isn't allowed at the moment. And this, combined with lockdown, means the only way I can see him at the moment is if he comes to my house.

DD has become marginally more tolerant of my bf over time but basically she would rather he wasn't around. She is adamant that she doesn't want my bf staying at mine. After lockdown ended and when I first started seeing him again I anticipated this and told him he couldn't stay more than one night a week and would need to leave early in the mornings. He's been very accepting of this. He has generally been incredibly patient about everything.

DD is still very unhappy about him being in my life at all. She's had outbursts at him within minutes of his arriving and asked him to leave the house and he's always gone along with this. I've talked to her about it and she basically says she wants him to go away and doesn't want to share me with him. I asked her if she could ever imagine a scenario where he lived with us and she said no.

I've done some soul searching to think if there is anything he has done which could have upset or frightened her and there genuinely has been nothing. I've been incredibly careful about making sure she and I have plenty of quality time together on our own, he's rarely here for long during daylight hours and so forth. She obviously would prefer if I was back with her dad, but we have been separated since she was just four, so it isn't a new scenario.

I'm really agonising over how to deal with this now. When we first got together I anticipated that if I took things slowly and if he was patient with her she would eventually start to come around to him and she is still, two years in, pretty hostile to him. It's so difficult because he's incredibly patient and respectful and she is frankly horrible to him. He's still very kind and accepting of it but I can't help thinking eventually he will run out of patience.

The bottom line is that she comes first and if push comes to shove I would and will drop him for her, absolutely no question. But I feel like if she can't accept someone who is so obviously supportive of her and loves me, she may never accept anyone else. Maybe the reality is I have to make peace with the fact that I won't be able to have a relationship with someone until she has moved out.

I'm just curious to know if anyone else has been through something similar and got past it, how long it took and generally if anyone has any advice?

She's got too much power for a 9yr old. Don't ask her if things are ok, tell her what's happening. You're the adult, act like it.

Please don't give her so much power in your relationship. It isn't a healthy dynamic for a 9 year old, or any age child. It's not good for her to be calling all the shots. She will become hopelessly self-centred and you will eventually be fighting not to be a taken-for-granted doormat, so not good for you either.

Your only responsibility to her with regard to your relationships with other people is to ensure that she is not endangered by them in any way. You absolutely should not shut down your personal life, just because your dd is jealous.

Reassure her that you would never bring someone into her life who was a bad person

But unfortunately this isn’t true. Her Dad was violent.

9 is old enough to know that sometimes we make mistakes about people, and also that people change. That one major relationship went wrong but what is important is that we stay true to ourselves and look after ourselves, and that is how we are able to meet new people with an open mind and enjoy meeting new people.

I haven’t read the full thread but the part that stood out to me was the part about her not wanting to share you.

That’s jealousy, and unfortunately not healthy is it. I know she’s been through a lot but it doesn’t make that acceptable.

And she has absolutely no right telling you who can and cannot stay in your home.

Kids are only in our households for such a brief time before they go on to build their own lives

Which means we have only a short time to instill the behaviors and skills they will need to make a good life on their own. Over-indulged children can have a BIG shock when they discover that just because they want something they aren't going to get it, or that foot stamping has if anything the opposite effect to the one it had with their parents.

Thanks everyone. The perspective here is really useful. I've tried to veer on the side of protecting her and her stability over my relationship and I still think that's ultimately the priority.

But I can see that I've probably overshot the mark here and that allowing her to set the parameters of my relationship helps no-one, least of all her.

The dynamic with her dad is a long, painful one and I hear all of your comments about how he is manipulating her. This is undoubtedly true but I'm afraid its more complicated than it sounds and cutting him out of my life is simply not possible at the moment for various reasons.

But you have given me the confidence to recognise that I'm in charge of my life and my relationships, not her, and that as long as she is safe and loved and her feelings are taken into consideration I have a right to be in a happy relationship.

Thank you all.

He obviously loves and cares for you a great deal to have this level of patience with the situation. I can imagine many people would think ‘fuck this’ and run a mile. I don’t say this to be harsh but your DD has treat him quite terribly when he has seemingly done no wrong. Booting him out of your home shortly after he’s arrived for example, she needs to understand that it’s not acceptable behaviour.

She obviously has a number of issues to work through probably relating to her Dad but if you continue letting her get her own way constantly, it really won’t do her any good in the long run. You need to have a word with her about showing kindness and understanding, explaining that your BF just wants to be friends and is a kind man etc. You can’t keep letting a 9 year old call the shots, it isn’t healthy.

I agree with pps.
The reason behind her behaviour might be difficult to unpick though.
It might be she’s being manipulated by her df and I think it may be time for some age appropriate home truths about your relationship with him and his behaviours separate to his relationship with her. You need to tell her he’s not your friend and doesn’t want nice things for you or for you to be happy but you both love her and her along because of that.
She may worry about being displaced in your life if she thinks you will love her less or have less time for her. She needs to understand that sometimes grown ups need grown up friends to talk about/do grown up stuff, which she will understand more when she’s older but having grown up friends (both sexes) including any special friends won’t change the fact she’s your child. Maybe she’s got friends who have been affected by blended families step parents and siblings ?
She does need to know she can’t police who you spend time with and she can’t be rude to your friends and you won’t tolerate it.
I would be wary of having your bf and her spend much time together though, it might be better to not do a happy family vibe, and keep his visits to arrive afternoon/ evening he stays he goes home in the morning, or covid permitting when she’s on a sleepover etc and don’t do days out trips to the park etc.

Thinking about this a bit more...

If your DD is prone to rudeness and generally bolshy and a can be disrespectful to you and other adults... then I may be more inclined to think of this as a behavioural issue rather than more emotional.

Whereas my 8 year old daughter would never ever ever behave like this unless she was really unhappy. So if she behaved like this - I really would take it very seriously and basically stop him coming over (and probably stop seeing him actually!)

@DeRigueurMortis

Ok I'm going to put my steel pants on for this one.....

Imho you've handled the situation appropriately apart from one aspect and that's putting up with your DD's behaviour for so long.

Her being rude to him within minutes of him being in the house is unacceptable.

You're teaching her that she can use your love for her to manipulate you and bend you to her will. That's not a good life lesson.

You're a mother not a martyr.

You shouldn't be expected to remove someone you presumably have strong feelings for (who by all accounts has been understanding and kind wrt your DD) from your life.

In truth when she's older and more mature I'll bet she looks back on her behaviour with regret.

In you're position I'd be inclined to sit her down and simply say that you're not putting up with her antics any more.

I'm not suggesting he moves in, but I think you need a zero tolerance on her rudeness and her being able to force your boyfriend to leave because she demands it.

I think because you allow her so much control in this regard she's never going to come to terms with you having a boyfriend because of course for her the best in her eyes is to have Mum to herself and all you've taught her is that what she wants goes - so of course she's going to push for all she can get and carry on as she has been doing.

What she doesn't appreciate is that having a happy, well supported, well loved Mum is the thing that's in her best interests.

This.

Get along

I agree with most of the advice above, but I'd add one more thing. It might not seem like it to your daughter, but having your partner around is good for her. Without him, her main male role model would be her father, who is aggressive, spiteful and manipulative. Your partner is showing her an alternative, a man who is kind, patient, and who persists when things get difficult. That's an incredibly valuable example for her to have.

‘ Thanks everyone. The perspective here is really useful. I've tried to veer on the side of protecting her and her stability over my relationship and I still think that's ultimately the priority.’

^
And you can do this without her controlling your life.

I think you need to have an age appropriate conversation with your DD about her Dad. Things around what does she think Dad asked her to do x y z. Does she think Daddy is being kind to her when DW says x?

I really recommend reading the book "How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk?" Your DD needs you to be truthful that her Dad is being wrong and unkind when he bad mouths you and /or your boyfriend. You know your ex will never put DDs emotional welfare first so please don't ignore his bad behaviour and say nothing. I don't mean bad mouth him but you do need to tell her which of his behaviour is wrong.

I would also seek counselling for DD to deal with the shit your ex is dumping on her.

SaskiaRembrandt

That's true and I've thought about this before: my boyfriend, in his personality, constitution etc, couldn't be more different from her dad: he's calm, non-confrontational and consistent. Essentially much better "dad" material, (although he doesn't have his own kids and claims not to want any).

But the flip side of that, without wanting to sound gloomy, is that I've been very conscious of the fact that he also may not be around forever.

For now things are going very well but that's never guaranteed and I am very conscious of not wanting to present my bf to her as "new dad" or even stepdad in case this relationship ends. Also, I want her to see me as financially independent and self-reliant and I don't want her growing up thinking a man is necessary for financial or emotional stability. I want her to be comfortable and happy around my boyfriend but if I'm honest I don't know if I want her to see him as a stepdad. We may never move in together I'm terrified of giving up my independence and in some ways I would prefer for her to see she and I as a self-reliant unit.

RandomMess she's in counselling for it.

Please be careful that when you aim to be a "self reliant unit" that she isn't elevated to be your equal...

Happened between my ex and our child, she so often chose what they ate, what they did, hie discussed far to much of his finances etc etc. You can imagine how it went tits up when he got a long term partner when she was 16/17 after her being his number 1 for years...

I found that it never got better. My dd still has an influence on my partner to this day and she was 9 a long time ago. I think they see it as a threat because deep down they hope their parents will get back together again

She doesn't get to dictate whether/who/when you have a boyfriend. Just tell her you're a grown up and most grown-ups have a love life.

The only time she gets to say if you carry on seeeing a bloke is if he treats her badly in some way, in which case you should be dumping him anyway of course.

If she acts out when he comes round then tell her off or whatever- she shouldn't be talking to your guest that way.

She will adjust to it.

I'm in my 30's now but I could have been your DD in my childhood. My father was abusive and in and out of our lives for years until my mother finally divorced him. We had a few quiet years in our own when my mum met someone else.
I was a bit older than your DD, around 11-12, but I HATED her new DP. At least I thought I did, I was so rude to him and so emotionally confused about the new dynamic in the household. I remember begging my mum not to see him any more and having long drawn out conversations with her about it and how I felt. My mum entertained me for a while and tried to understand and stopped seeing him, but in fact my anxiety got worse.
Eventually she sat me down and firmly told me that she was having him back in her life and that I had to change my bad behaviour towards him, she also put extra emphasis on me and her having quality time together and scheduled a night for just me and her to watch films, go for a walk, chat.
When her boyfriend came round, if I couldn't be nice I had to leave the room.
When my mum got firm and laid down the rules and yet was still emotionally available to me, I actually felt much better and it didn't take long for me to accept my new situation. As I got older, I felt humiliated about my behaviour towards a man who was genuinely lovely and kind and never treated me with anything other than respect.
I just wanted to give you my experience to let you know that children feel more secure with firm boundaries and that you deserve happiness, and your life isn't at the expense of your DD.

RandomMess that's a fair point. I didn't mean I see her as an equal partner in the household and hopefully I haven't conveyed that. What I meant is that I want her to grow up thinking that we as a unit can be both financially and emotionally independent and thriving on our own without a man.

Any man who comes into our dynamic should complementary to it and should only be allowed into it if supportive.

You're all absolutely correct that she doesn't get to call the shots. But neither does he and hell will freeze over before I allow a man to dictate the rules in our household. That may sound more aggressive than its intended to be and my boyfriend has been incredibly receptive to this so there's no friction here. But my independence and autonomy is incredibly important to me.

muser1548

Thank you, that's very encouraging and heartening. And thanks for the perspective.

What others have said. You need to get a grip on your DDs rudeness and manipulative behaviour. Kids can be manipulative and it's often from a place of insecurity, but you have addressed her insecurity and , I think, pandered to her long enough. You deserve to have a life. This man you think is someone who can make you happy, and ultimately become a friend and support to your DD.

All you can do is be the adult in this relationship and let your daughter know she will always be first in your life, but when she grows up and leaves, you will be sad and alone and you want your DP to be there to love you. Then progress the relationship. Your DD will come round once she realises it's not her calling the shots any longer.

Unless you are prepared to face life alone when she waltzes off to university without giving you a backward glance, and makes her own life and happiness, having effectively deprived you of the same?

Perhaps these are things you can raise with the counsellor? Although her discussions with DD are confidential presumably you can let them know you are concerned about DDs hostility to your partner and whether she thinks she has the right to dictate things as if she were equal to you.

Perhaps some conversations with DD around you choosing friends whether they be female or male that you make choices about his good or not good to be in your lives. It's sad that Daddy can't be in your lives because of his bad behaviour towards you and she has to trust that you do make the best decisions for both of you and you are confident that x y z and boyfriend being good things to you as a family as well as you yourself.

Hope that makes sense!