DD and boyfriend -- has anyone ever successfully got past this?

[thepeopleversuswork]

Please be gentle with me on this: I know its a contentious subject and lots of you will say I shouldn't be dating at all, but its causing me a lot of heartache at the moment.

Have been with my boyfriend for two years. We don't live together. I have a 9 year old DD. When I first met him I was very clear that we had to take things very slowly -- she didn't meet him for six months etc and moving in was not on the horizon any time in the short to medium term. For about the next six months he stayed at mine once a week. After about a year I slowly started to increase this so he was staying two nights a week. Then lockdown happened and we didn't see each other for nearly four months. We slowly started seeing one another in the summer.

DD's dad is under an injunction due to previous DV so she can't stay at his: the only time I get time away from her is with sleepovers etc, which obviously isn't allowed at the moment. And this, combined with lockdown, means the only way I can see him at the moment is if he comes to my house.

DD has become marginally more tolerant of my bf over time but basically she would rather he wasn't around. She is adamant that she doesn't want my bf staying at mine. After lockdown ended and when I first started seeing him again I anticipated this and told him he couldn't stay more than one night a week and would need to leave early in the mornings. He's been very accepting of this. He has generally been incredibly patient about everything.

DD is still very unhappy about him being in my life at all. She's had outbursts at him within minutes of his arriving and asked him to leave the house and he's always gone along with this. I've talked to her about it and she basically says she wants him to go away and doesn't want to share me with him. I asked her if she could ever imagine a scenario where he lived with us and she said no.

I've done some soul searching to think if there is anything he has done which could have upset or frightened her and there genuinely has been nothing. I've been incredibly careful about making sure she and I have plenty of quality time together on our own, he's rarely here for long during daylight hours and so forth. She obviously would prefer if I was back with her dad, but we have been separated since she was just four, so it isn't a new scenario.

I'm really agonising over how to deal with this now. When we first got together I anticipated that if I took things slowly and if he was patient with her she would eventually start to come around to him and she is still, two years in, pretty hostile to him. It's so difficult because he's incredibly patient and respectful and she is frankly horrible to him. He's still very kind and accepting of it but I can't help thinking eventually he will run out of patience.

The bottom line is that she comes first and if push comes to shove I would and will drop him for her, absolutely no question. But I feel like if she can't accept someone who is so obviously supportive of her and loves me, she may never accept anyone else. Maybe the reality is I have to make peace with the fact that I won't be able to have a relationship with someone until she has moved out.

I'm just curious to know if anyone else has been through something similar and got past it, how long it took and generally if anyone has any advice?

@DeRigueurMortis

Ok I'm going to put my steel pants on for this one.....

Imho you've handled the situation appropriately apart from one aspect and that's putting up with your DD's behaviour for so long.

Her being rude to him within minutes of him being in the house is unacceptable.

You're teaching her that she can use your love for her to manipulate you and bend you to her will. That's not a good life lesson.

You're a mother not a martyr.

You shouldn't be expected to remove someone you presumably have strong feelings for (who by all accounts has been understanding and kind wrt your DD) from your life.

In truth when she's older and more mature I'll bet she looks back on her behaviour with regret.

In you're position I'd be inclined to sit her down and simply say that you're not putting up with her antics any more.

I'm not suggesting he moves in, but I think you need a zero tolerance on her rudeness and her being able to force your boyfriend to leave because she demands it.

I think because you allow her so much control in this regard she's never going to come to terms with you having a boyfriend because of course for her the best in her eyes is to have Mum to herself and all you've taught her is that what she wants goes - so of course she's going to push for all she can get and carry on as she has been doing.

What she doesn't appreciate is that having a happy, well supported, well loved Mum is the thing that's in her best interests.

This PP has hit the nail on the head.

Just like to say how lovely it is that you are getting such positive replies.

I think because of your relationship with her Dad, you've naturally over compensated on putting her first. It's time to stop (over compensating) and put yourself first sometimes.
It sounds like you have a lovely DP and you don't want to lose him, right?
Sit her down and explain that you are going to see your DP and he is going to stay over. Tell her you will not tolerate any rudeness and set some consequences if she is. You are the adult, you make the rules, not her. I'm assuming you've already talked to her about why she behaves as she does but she may need to hear some tough truths about her Dad. Honesty is the key. Don't validate their unreasonable/unjustified behaviour by going along with it.
I've been in a similar situation, but far less volatile than yours I admit.

There is a big difference in expecting a child to be polite to someone visiting for a few hours versus someone who has the potential to change the entire dynamic of the household. I think you need to reassure her that 1) she will only have to answer to one adult and 2) he will not be moving in unless someday that is something both you and your dd want.

I could not disagree more. It's shit advice.

It's unacceptable for her to be rude to any of her mother's guests and demand they leave the home.

Arguably it's worse not somehow better if the person is someone special to her mother.

As to it's up to her to decide if he moves in and she won't have to listen to anyone but her mother - again no, no, no.

She's nine. She doesn't get to act like a mini dictator in the home.

As I posted previously it's exactly this sort of advice that's utterly destructive to creating an harmonious blended family and importantly a well rounded child whose equipped to deal with life.

If in the future he does move in then she needs to treat him with respect as an adult in the home. He likewise needs to treat her respectfully.

That doesn't mean he can't tick her off for being rude or not putting her dirty dishes in the dishwasher.

There are so many sad posts where parents put the child first in every regard then find themselves alone (because the step parent/BF/GF) finally has had enough of being treated like dirt and they are bemused as to how they raised a child that's utterly selfish and unable to deal with life as an adult where the world doesn't revolve around them.

If you raise a snowflake don't be surprised if it melts when the heat turns up.....

Derigourmortis

I can’t fathom welcoming someone into my DD’s household who she wasn’t thrilled to have there. Kids are only in our households for such a brief time before they go on to build their own lives. While they are with us, they should be our priority.

If he is only staying over once each week, and leaving early in the morning, then she hardly knows him surely? He is a furtive presence, someone to be got rid of before the day starts. For her to begin to like and accept him, they need shared experiences so that she sees him as someone who brings fun to the house and enriches your family life.

I know opportunities are limited at the moment but if he is coming over to cook her favourite meal, play a board game, bring his dog so that you can all go for a walk, drop off a treat for you both, rent a Sky movie, or anything else that the two of you wouldn't necessarily do by yourselves then she might start to see him in a more positive way.

I also think she knows more about the dv and verbal abuse from your ex than you think - to her, that's what a man brings to family life, and it's understandably unwelcome. Together you need to dispel that myth - your new relationship isn't about sneaking around, being furtive, feeling guilty but about building something positive and fun and better.

Of course you want the best for your daughter, but I believe there's a difference between taking your daughter's wishes and preferences into consideration and letting her make rule your life.

If your boyfriend is as good as you say, it would be a shame to let your daughter's irrational dislike of him put an end to your relationship. Sometimes acting in a child's best interest means you can't be their best friend or give them exactly what they want. She has to learn that no matter how much you love her even because you love her and want what's best for her you won't accept disrespect and rudeness to you or your boyfriend.

She sounds like a very confused child. Also, a very smart child who is struggling to know how best to act on the manipulative lies she is being fed by your ex.

I think you need to make it simple for her:

• Mums, like children, are entitled to have friends, otherwise they would be very lonely.
• She doesn't have to like your boyfriend, but she needs to be polite and civil to him when he visits. And make him feel welcome. Just like you make her friends feel welcome.
• If she is rude and plays mean tricks on him, there will be consequences. Because we don't behave like that.
• We should try our best to give people a chance before we make up our minds about them. Can she point to any time when your boyfriend has been less than pleasant with her? If not, she's being unfair not to at least give him a chance, given he's important to you.

You’re not doing her any favours by allowing her to control you. You also need to stop being so hard on yourself. You’ve done your best in very difficult circumstances. If her dad is verbally abusive then you had no choice but to finish the relationship. You have done your best but she cannot be allowed to be rude to your guests. You have the right to a life outside of your daughter. It’s not all about her. One day she’ll be gone and what? You’re going to dump a perfectly decent man because she doesn’t like it? What about the next one? You don’t have to be a martyr to your daughters moods. You give her plenty of one on one time. Is there anybody else you can bubble up with (as you are a single parent it’s allowed). Then you could do sleepover swaps. I think you should start to put yourself and your boyfriend first a little bit. Make it clear to your daughter that Saturday evenings are mummy time and time for mummy to spend with her boyfriend.

Have never been in this situation so feel free to completely ignore! But you seem so torn over this OP and I just wanted to offer you my feeling that you are doing everything you can and trying your absolute best, you're obviously a very good and devoted mum! I will bow to the idea of, and for what its worth I agree with, what PP's have agreed. If I might make a suggestion, again feel free to completely disregard as I haven't ever been in your shoes introducing a bf to children, would it be an idea to perhaps invite your bf over for just an evening, with your DD expecting him, on the idea that he will be coming and you'd like all three of you to do something together. Perhaps you could put on her favourite film, and order a takeout or cook her favourite, and then he could sit in an armchair with you and her on the sofa together, so she sees that she is the priority and will be the one with you in your home but that he can be there too. If shes rude to him again perhaps not the best idea in case she sees it as a treat! But if she goes up to her room in a strip when you just continue on with "No were going to have fun!" and "Do you want popcorn?" perhaps you end he could just do the above, giving her a shout with "Films starting DD!" and "Foods here now!" so she comes down to see how the land lies, and finds you and he sat apart but having a nice time, and sees you really both want her to join in.

@Notarealmum

I think you need to sit her down for a little chat, try to find out what her dad has been telling her about your DP and gently and lovingly explain that it’s not true. That daddy made mummy unhappy, your DP makes her happy and wants to be a good friend to your DD if he’s only given the chance - and for that reason he will continue to be in your lives, how will that make her feel etc. Respond to her concerns but also make it clear the rudeness will have to stop and that she doesn’t have to do what her dad tells her to if he’s asking her to be mean to someone. She’s in a difficult position, poor thing, torn between pleasing both of you, I imagine. At the moment her dad’s winning out because he’s the one piling on pressure.

I’d also make it abundantly clear to your DP that you’re taking decisive action - he obviously cares about you enormously to put up with the situation for so long!!

I say this (as my user name suggests) as someone without kids of my own so excuse me if I’m off the mark. I’m a step mum myself so I’m coming at it from a different perspective.

I was going to say something like this. For all you know your ex could be telling her that your bf is going to kill you and kidnap her.

Please stop telling her that her father is your friend. He isn’t. In child speak, he has hurt you, been mean to you and says mean things about your friends. Be honest. She’s 9, not a baby anymore and she needs to know who her father is in order to protect herself. In your endeavour to not bad mouthed him, you have lied to her.

I also think you should put in a firm boundary eg “Phil is coming over tomorrow afternoon at 3 and we are going to McDonalds to get dinner together. First he wants to take you to the park and it would be nice if we could all play x game together after we have eaten. It’s ok to be cross that he is coming over. If you need to go to your room for a while when he is here, that’s ok. He is my very good friend. I am kind to your friends and I want you to be kind to mine.” Then stick to it, sending her to her room for a while to cool off if necessary. Your dd needs firm boundaries.

If you really can’t unpick this, I would suggest you see a child psychologist if you can pay for one. They will work with your dd to discover her issue and give you the tools to overcome this.

@Notarealmum
All different sorts of mums... doesn’t make you not a real one.

It was difficult emotionally for my DD to share me and we had some up and downs when I introduced her to my boyfriend.

She did actually ask him to leave the house! Guess what? He never did and I never expected him too. I feel you have handled this all wrong. You are making her lord of the manor and how will she ever have an relationship with this man if you are condoning her behaviour? You are not making her feel secure, you are basically saying "yes you are right, this man is a threat to us"

You need to be reassuring her that she is number one in your life BUT to also allow the boyfriend into your life (within reason) so a bond can develop.

My DD has a great relationship with my partner now. There were periods of jealously (from DD) which I addressed but if I behaved like you, DD never would have given my partner a chance.

One of my DD's said she would never be comfortable with any man that wasn't her dad. End of. A year on we have progress in that she's stayed with us (I've moved, she's an adult) but it's a long slog. Whether knowingly or subconsciously kids can manipulate and try to get their own way. My dd wanted it to be just the 2 of us, even suggested;wasn't going to happen) I went back to studying and we applied for masters together. Ok older here but me meeting someone rocked her fantasy and so I had to be blunt with her, I suggest the same thing, not to pussyfoot around and tell her your bf is coming every other weekend/on Wednesdays or whatever but ensuring that every other weekend at first you keep for her

It’s a tough situation.

I think your dd has been greatly effected by the DV you received of her dad. She will love him because he is her dad but the DV will have damaged her trust in the security of her life and any men that may come in to her life.

I know it’s not fair that you should have to stay single for her security but she didn’t ask to be born in to this.

I’d scale back the relationship, no over night visits and focus on councilling for her.

She isn’t ready to have another male in her living space - remember the last one assaulted you twice.

@GlowingOrb

There is a big difference in expecting a child to be polite to someone visiting for a few hours versus someone who has the potential to change the entire dynamic of the household. I think you need to reassure her that 1) she will only have to answer to one adult and 2) he will not be moving in unless someday that is something both you and your dd want.

I disagree. That way madness lies.

@thepeopleversuswork. I agree with everyone else (up to the above post). I'm surprised by the responses actually, I was expecting to be a lone voice.

Apart from dealing with DD, you need to have a fresh look about whether how you're handling her father is the best way for her. Yes, if you get him out of your lives she will be upset now, (& is not cheap) but you have to look at what's best for her long term. He's using her to control you, that's not good for you or her! He's teaching her stuff about life & relationships that's not healthy. As she gets older he's going to have more & more influence over her - us that really goid for her?

@LauraBassi

It’s a tough situation.

I think your dd has been greatly effected by the DV you received of her dad. She will love him because he is her dad but the DV will have damaged her trust in the security of her life and any men that may come in to her life.

I know it’s not fair that you should have to stay single for her security but she didn’t ask to be born in to this.

I’d scale back the relationship, no over night visits and focus on councilling for her.

She isn’t ready to have another male in her living space - remember the last one assaulted you twice.

Sorry, but that's really not right. At all.

Op
No judgement at all
But I am divorced for 5 years with two children around same age as yours (but younger and bit older) and honestly - absolutely no man will be staying in our home (unless it is their uncle!) until they are much much older.

I had an idyllic childhood. My parents were together and happy but it was SO much more then that. My home was my refuge. Me, my parents and my siblings. I was so secure and happy.

And I see that in my children now. Our modest home is their sanctuary. Their absolutely safe space.

I am tentatively sipping my toe in to online dating and enjoying and there is no way in hell that anyone, no matter how special to me, will be invading my children’s home (because that is what it is. A man that means nothing to her suddenly invading her space) until they are much much older.

If I were you, I would ask if he would be happy to continue the relationship but no staying at yours. And if that means you don’t have sec during covid, then so be it!

You need to explain to your daughter that her father is allowed an opinion about your BF but that doesn't mean he's right

You need to teach your daughter manners - she should know at her age that being rude to someone who is not doing anything rude, is wrong

I think you're focusing way too much on sleepovers

Once a week you get to choose what DD and you do during the day and your choice is for you and she to have fun fun fun with BF

He then goes home after tea/supper.

Move it on gradually from there

It's your home too and you and DD are allowed reasonable choices which the other must allow as long as everyone is safe

But back off with him staying over and sneaking out in the morning . That's excluding her from fun and you need to INclude her so she can learn tolerance, acceptance of your choices and also how lovely BF is

All different sorts of mums... doesn’t make you not a real one. smile

Thanks, @Mummyoflittledragon 🌸

I posted above but want to add one further thing.

Rather than think in terms of you putting your foot down, try to generate the feeling in her that you are in charge, you are a great mum and will not let anything bad happen to her, you are making decisions to achieve the best possible outcome for both you and her, she can trust you because you have learned a lot since you were with her df and you will not make mistakes again, you are all grown up and know what is the best. Help her see that yielding to your judgement is in her best interests and that you won't let her down by making a bad judgement. Help her feel secure about it.
That said, you do have to be sure that this relationship has legs. Also, as I said upthread, he has to be allowed to build a relationship of trust and fun with her.

@DeRigueurMortis has got it spot on. You are letting a 9 year old decide on how you are allowed to live your life. By all means take a child's view on board but they do not get to make the decisions. Or we'd all be having sweeties for lunch and ice cream for dinner. Be a woman. Be a girlfriend. Be a mum. And to be a mum you need to be in charge.

Are there any opportunities (hard right now) for her to develop her own relationship with him? Did you do any fun days out? Does he play board games with her or build mad Lego constructions with her? She needs to see that he can be an ally not just a rival.

It is possible that your caution and reassurance have actually positioned him in her mind as a rival.

However, she is justifiably wary of men in her home and the behaviour of male partners.

@thepeopleversuswork I have a very similar problem with my DD. She is 17! My BF is someone I have known for over 30 years, so we are already very comfortable around each other.
He came to stay and I cooked dinner for us. DS wasn't there. He's 20. The three of us ate together and then sat round the table chatting, laughing and listening to music. The next day we sat down for dinner and DD was clearly in a bad mood. She burst into tears and left the table. The following evening (BF had gone home by then) she said it was because she felt odd eating with him. It made her think of her Dad. Her dad left us 4 years ago!!! The divorce has been amicable too.
I spoke to friends about this and they gave me the exact same advice as you've had here. That she is controlling me.
It's hard though. She barely sees her dad (they get on but he lives several hundred miles away). DD also had MH issues 2 years ago which has made me very protective of her. I feel guilty for the problems she had. She had counselling at the time and is much better now.
She totally controls me and I don't like it. I fear that if I say anything she will think I don't love her. I want her to feel loved and reassured. But I also want my own life. It's so hard.

Kids are only in our households for such a brief time before they go on to build their own lives

All the more reason not to deny yourself any kind of normal adult life when they blithely head off into the sunset!

I think you need to tackle - very firmly - the fact that her dad is feeding her nasty, manipulative info about your new partner.

Maybe you could explain it to her by comparing it to the school playground? She must have seen children falling out with each other and then spreading rumours about their ex-friends. It happens all the time.

Your daughter needs to know that sometimes adults say things that aren't true. Reassure her that you would never bring someone into her life who was a bad person - she needs to trust that your new partner is a good guy, even if she doesn't like him.

You can have a conversation about this without bad-mouthing her father. Just state the facts and say she shouldn't cause trouble just because her father has asked her too.