Husband attacked teenage son

[Throwawaynameforthis]

On Saturday night my husband pinned DS to the floor.

We were playing a family game and DS (14) was being annoying, escalating to rudeness. He accused me of “smacking him” which I absolutely did not do.

I took myself out of the room for a minute and the next thing I hear is H yelling, DD15 shouting at H to stop and DD9 sobbing.

As I walk into room DS is legging it out the house looking terrified, quickly followed by DD. From what I can work out H picked DS up by then lapels and got him on floor and was telling him he’d “show him what a smack is”.

I found DS quickly and then DD and went home. H apologised to the DC but I’m so angry. I don’t know what to do. This has been escalating for months.

Is this it? Is there any recovering from this? For me or the DC?

If your DS leaves then where is he going to go? Since he is the one who is causing the issues in the household then he is the problem that needs sorting. Your DH reacting is a symptom, you leaving the room is a symptom - what you need to do is get your DS to counseling as he is the root problem.

Oh and get your DH to see someone too so he can learn better ways of disciplining DS, oh and you too since you are obviously opting out of parenting by leaving it to your DH.

@wombat1a

If your DS leaves then where is he going to go? Since he is the one who is causing the issues in the household then he is the problem that needs sorting. Your DH reacting is a symptom, you leaving the room is a symptom - what you need to do is get your DS to counseling as he is the root problem.

Oh and get your DH to see someone too so he can learn better ways of disciplining DS, oh and you too since you are obviously opting out of parenting by leaving it to your DH.

This!!!! Well said

@wombat1a what do you mean “if my DS leaves where is he going to do?” Do you mean when he runs off? He wasn’t going anywhere in particular.

I really don’t think I’m opting out of parenting. I walked away because allowing myself to get into a tit for tat is pointless with a teen who won’t back down. That doesn’t mean I don’t parent him

I know the husband is the adult here & should know better , but why are we all assuming he's this insane child beater?! I think they whole family (in particular both men) need counselling. It's a difficult age & your son is testing the waters. If the DS has been acting extremely difficult & rude for months, maybe the DH wanted to scare him? There are better ways of accomplishing this absolutely but some kids will test your patience till there's nothing left?! OP what has your son said about what happened? Does he realise that his attitude ALSO stinks?

OP, it does mean you’re not parenting though. You can’t just walk away when your son is rude. It sounds like he doesn’t understand how lucky he is and if you and your husband are providing him with this comfortable life, he needs to be polite and show some appreciation. Being 14 is not an excuse. It sounds like your husband got fed up of hearing how hard done by he is and how you do nothing for him. Also, suggesting you then hit him, is not on. This is lying, not being a 14 year old. Why aren’t you seeing that this needs addressing, just as you see that your husband needs to address his behaviour? I can’t imagine my husband would be pretty annoyed to work to provide a nice life for our children, for our son to be rude and throw it back in his face and for me to think it’s ok to make excuses for this and walk away to avoid confrontation. To be honest, if he doesn’t appreciate things, maybe some of this nice life should be removed until he does! The world doesn’t owe anyone a living and having a sense of entitlement at 14 is not setting him up well for the future.

I walked away to diffuse the situation not to abrogate all parenting responsibility.

I call him out on his rudeness all the time. If he behaves badly then he is punished. Anyone with teens will understand that this is less simple than giving him time out or sending him to his room.

We’re in a lock down area so I can’t ground him/prevent him going out since he’s not doing that anyway. I take away his phone and computer when necessary but he needs both for school/homework so that’s also difficult. I’d love some suggestions of effective punishments for a teen.

And yes I’m getting defensive because apart from a couple of thoughtful posters who have signposted middle ground I feel that the responses are in the main:

Your poor H, you don’t discipline your DS and so it’s all your fault that he had to; or

You’re a terrible mum who is not protecting your DS.

@throwawaynameforthis I think it's a divisive topic as it brings into light people's parenting views (which are always going to have contrarian elements). I know that I think he was far too rough to an extent of being abusive, and some people think that your DH hasn't done enough to adequately punish your son.

I don't think you're necessarily avoiding parenting however, and I think it's always better to walk away from a situation rather than get violent or aggressive. How have things been since the incident?

Your poor children. By just carrying on you are condoning this behaviour. Your children will accept they will be treated like that and that they can treat people like that. You need to step up and say this is not acceptable in any way, shape or form. Teenagers can drive you insane but this is a step too far. What happens next time there is a disagreement. My old next door neighbour was abusive to the whole family. One day he beat his son up and got so enraged it took three policemen to get him off as he repeatedly bang his sons head on the floor.

ThrowAwayNameForThis I think discipline teens is very hard. People with glib answers may not yet have patented teens or may have hadtgisr rare very well behaved ones!

Still no words of advice, sadly, but just to say keep going. It's hard. Xxx Xxx

@ThrowAwayNameForThis
I think you are having a bad time on here. The problem is that teenagers are actually developmentally the equivalent of toddlers. I didn't realise any of that until, in frustration, I reached for a few books on teenage development and it is fascinating; it makes you feel much more understanding towards them. There are vast areas of cognitive awareness literally floating in thin air, waiting for connections to form. They seem articulate and reasonable in so many ways, yet in others all rationality has evaporated. They are developmentally programmed to push you away but they do come back again.
Lengthy verbal discussions do not always provide the desired behaviour modification as they often facilitate a locked antlers situation. Obviously I wouldn't condone physical attack, but a signature event such as this could be a turning point. The most useful thing at this point would be reflective discussion when everyone is calm. Without wishing to sound as if I am trivialising it, daft little things they used to like when they were little - e.g. Lego cards, or a daft cuddly toy also seem to go a long way to reminding them of who they are at their roots. Maybe a bit of an emotional anchor?

I daresay that I will receive comments implying that I am condoning physical attack etc. Actually I'm not - but I have experienced a similar flashpoint with both my ds and we are a close, happy and secure family - and they both know that they are loved and they are both confident, well-balanced young men.

Oh OP, I simply can't understand why you're the bad guy here. I do wonder how many people giving you a hard time on here have a teenage son with the same characteristics.

I also have a kind, gentle, sensitive husband who rarely raises his voice but at times, he has been driven to the end of his tether by one of our children - kids push your buttons like no-one else. What he did was wrong, without a doubt, but it's also not worth splitting the family over. For what it's worth, I think you've behaved perfectly. When things get heated in our house, I often remove one of them or myself from the situation to save things erupting unnecessarily. Your DH screwed up, undoubtedly, but he immediately knew it, sought help and has asked for forgiveness. Other than creating a time machine, I can't see what you could do to improve things more.

@LeopardPrintKnickers

You're absolutely spot on.

Have you spoken to your husband since? Has he explained why he did what he did and how he felt? Have you discussed with him whether he feels you’re on the same page parenting-wise? I know you’ve said you were disgusted by his behaviour and refused to go out with him and the kids, but have you actually talked to him? If so, what does he say?

I’m not saying that he is justified in his actions but maybe he felt at the end of his tether with your sons behaviour? There’s being a normal teen and suggesting someone has hit you which is either very worrying or about really pushing buttons - neither is really teen behaviour.

You don’t seem to think your son needs any help to stop this kind of behaviour and maybe this rubs off on your son and explains why he also feels that he doesn’t need/want help. Personally, if this is the family dynamic and members of your household aren’t able to live together without these arguments and button-pushing, I would involve professionals for some advice. Just shutting your husband out and telling him to get help, will only address half of the issue.

And I also have teens so I appreciate normal teenage huffs! Your son needs to realise how dangerous it is to make false accusations though. You say he wouldn’t say this to anyone else but if it’s about button pushing, are you really sure of this? I think it needs nipping in the bud.

I love DS dearly but he can be obnoxious and arrogant. He will never back down from an argument and reacts badly if told off

So you chose not to tell him off or discipline him in any way for his abusive behaviour...you walked away leaving your husband to deal with it.
Then you get mad at your husband for being forced to deal with it - and he never hit him, i doubt he ever intended to....your son needed to know what it feels like to be 'bullied' by somebody with more 'power'......and he couldn't handle it.

Your son is the problem and you sticking your head in the sand isn't helping anyone - neither is blaming your husband.
If your son thinks being aggressive and a bully is how he wants to play - then he shouldn't be whingeing about being given a dose of his own medicine.

Your son knows he has more 'power' as such right now, he can say.do anything he likes and then kick off when you dare to parent/discipline him.
HE uses aggression and violence as a means to force you into submission - and if you're not careful he will be hitting you and your daughter as he gets older.

That’s a bit dramatic monkey monkey - I think op handled it well myself and her husband has taken responsibility for his actions.
No one is perfect - they parents are asking for help.
Maybe her son got the wake up call he needed and he will settle down and realise his boundaries.

Well it's easy to see where your son learned to be obnoxious and arrogant. My father also had a foul temper and violent disposition, yet somehow thought that all the violence we grew into came out of nowhere.

Your son may be challenging but he clearly learned it from his abusive father. Don't let your husband continue to terrorise the kids and attack them for the behaviour he's modelling. He needs to go. What is this teaching all your children?

@monkeymonkey2010

Monkey maybe harsh....however she is making a VERY salient point.

OP did walk away, (with good intentions) but did leave her husband to deal with it.

Only speaking for myself, and MY life...but there are a huge numbers of marriages out there which have good cop/bad cop parenting going on.

It's really shite to be the bad parent.

It's really lonely.
Causes awful stress.
Decimates marital respect.

We had this for a period in our house, and I was like an anti-christ with the annoyance.

I hadn't signed up for this.

It took and some tough conversations.

My husband is just great, but a bit lazy!!... whom was prepared to allow me be the bad cop........if he could quietly get away with it...🙄.....#menaresobloodyselfish😡

Reality bit him in the ass ....big time....when I wasn't accepting this...and he got it......but it definitely wasn't overnight...... and I was very pissed off 🙄😬

This can end marriages.

If you aren't prepared to partner me in the toughest of times? What are you good for?

OP, spell it out to him.

But own your own part in this.
You can't walk away from these moments.
Own them.
Show your children that your husband and yourself are united.
This is so important.

We are hugely stronger as a couple as a result....but the real truth is that for aperiod of time I would have buried him under a patio...and he knows it....I really was that pissed off...

These are really compelling insights @ShebaShimmyShake.

Reflecting on this thread, as an earlier poster pointed out, we don’t know enough about the environment or the ongoing family dynamics. This makes it’s too easy to fill in the gaps with our own projections.

But, all the responses have been really interesting and some people have pointed out some insights that I think are gems and might be useful to any of us with teens considering family dynamics.

what do you mean “if my DS leaves where is he going to do?” Do you mean when he runs off? He wasn’t going anywhere in particular.

Well if your DS is rude, obnoxious, lies continuously - when challenged on his lies then argues and argues until everyone else gives up so when you talked about people being told to leave the home I assumed it was your DS since he is the one that is awful to live with.

I see a number of people here say that living with your DH is showing your DS that violence is acceptable. I have not seen many point out that you choosing to ignore his lies and in fact downgrade them to other things is teaching him that lying is acceptable, being rude is acceptable, being a horrible little s**t is acceptable.

You need to set boundaries, you need him to start to earn things like internet connection time rather than take it away when he is bad. Unload the dishwasher get 30mins of connection etc etc. He needs to learn that you earn things and that the bank of mum and dad don't just give you things even if you are a prat.

There’s no question of me asking DS to leave the house - he’s 14! And he’s not awful to live with: they’re both awful when they argue. It’s not a constant permanent state of affairs.

I fundamentally disagree with the approach you’ve set out @wombat1a. I know some people like to tie household chores to privileges/pocket money by rewarding help, however I take the view that unloading the dishwasher (which as I’ve said he mostly does) is part of being a family: you just do it without thought of gain, because you live in the house.

I think a lot of posters are now just enjoying kicking me so I’m going to try and leave this now. Thanks to the many that have offered advice and particular those who have not seen this as an opportunity for a pile on and to criticise my parents.

I do parent DS actively and of course he has boundaries (that he pushes). I know pinning him to the floor is not the answer.

I’ve really appreciated many of the posts and it’s given me something to think about. H and I do have different parenting styles: Im more inclined to try and treat the DC as young adults, H is much more of the demanding obedience school of thought.

I’ve spoken to DS again, he recognises the role he played and apologised (unprompted) to me for over reacting. He’s been told we’re getting family counselling.

DH recognises this is part of a bigger issue he has and is getting help.

We’re on half term so I’ve had the week off work and spent a lot of time with the girls, they both seem ok, although reluctant to talk about it.

OP I agree with you: I hate the idea of "paying" the kids for chores. They do chores because we are a family and we all help. They don't do things in order to earn privileges.
This is about parenting style wrt locus of control and intrinsic/ extrinsic motivation. Parents who give pocket money/ screen time etc for children contributing are teaching extrinsic motivation: you do something to get something. This isn't bad, it just isn't what I want to teach. I am (trying to) teach my kids intrinsic motivation: you do something because it needs doing. Because you are part of the team.

@ThrowAwayNameForThis, that’s good news.

Family counselling is the way to go, especially if they are both reluctant to talk about it.
But the fact they are also both happy to apologise/recognise this part is important.

One thing that is standing out for me is the fact that your DH is actually a good role model in his reaction. He fucked up but instead if ignoring it, he has taken responsibility and some actions so it doesn’t happen again. That’s an important lesson to learn.

OP,
It sounds very positive.
Best of luck with the counselling.

@toxtethOgradyUSA

If anybody wants to know why we have such a serious, ingrained issue with male violence and widespread domestic abuse in our society, all they need to do is read this thread. People are actually defending a grown man pinning a kid to the floor in his own home (where he is supposed to feel safe). I can only assume the same people defending this would turn a blind to/excuse it if it occurs in their own households. I also find it incredible that some women set the bar so low. It seems they will tolerate anything it it means not being single.

However, you could perhaps flip your comment and say that the reason there is such an issue now with male violence is because teenagers are being allowed to act how they want without being challenged? I don't know what's right here!