Co-habiting but not married - finances

[flowersrain]

Just wondering people's thoughts on this.

My boyfriend and I don't yet live together but I'm wondering how it would be fair to split finances when we do. Eventually I will probably rent out my house (I have a very small mortgage) and move in with him as his house is bigger. Neither of us has children.

He is a very high earner - works in private equity - but has more expenses than me: a bigger mortgage etc. I am a pretty low earner and only earn around £26k. If I were to move in with him would it be fair to split bills 50-50? I see differing views about this. If we were married with children I think I would expect it to be more proportionate to our earnings but in this case would 50-50 still be fair? Even though I am a relatively low earner I don't think splitting the bills in this way would be unfair/leave me destitute? Or am I being a doormat?

At the moment he will occasionally treat me to lunch or dinner out (usually when he's in my bad books haha) but if we go for drinks or whatever we take it in turns to pay. We don't keep a tally of what we spend/whose turn it is to pay when we're out and about or if we're on holiday but it generally evens out eg I buy train tickets, he pays for lunch so it's pretty equal.

Thoughts?

Any thoughts?

@BitOfFun

No 'borderline' about it! This is what posters are trying to protect you from. Not because your DP sounds abusive (we don't know him!), but because we have all read these stories on mumsnet, and they are bloody scary.

Thank you. I really can't see my boyfriend ever behaving in that manner but I can understand why you might be concerned if you've seen these stories before. I wonder what redeeming features the SIL's partner had for her to even want to move in together? There must have been some?

I think that in your circumstances the sensible approach would be to look at your net (rather than gross) incomes after tax, mortgage payments etc and then split the remaining bills in that proportion.

Woah stop with the assumptions! He has never insulted, cheated or been violent towards me

I didn't say he had - you're the one making assumptions, I said his behaviour re the ODD occasions when he does put his hand in his pocket, was behaviour typical of a certain TYPE of man.

He may not have done those things but he must have done something "off" to be in the dog house in the first place - and this is during the time he's on best behaviour!

It’s very telling of a power imbalance in the relationship, which is a precursor to forms of abuse

This sums up my feelings which I put clumsily in my comment about garage flowers.

The point is he thinks he can throw money/RARE generosity at you to "bring you round"

It's very worrying you describe your mum as "terrible" rather than recognising in all likelihood she was a victim of financial abuse - which often goes hand in hand with other abuse.

To be honest your dad sounds very controlling, does your view of her come from him I wonder?

I'm from an abusive marriage and something my dad did and I'm ashamed I didn't realise until I was older that he drew us (the kids) into verbally abusing her too, "jokingly" rolling our eyes and treating her as if she was stupid, useless etc - she absolutely is not but he worked damn hard to try and make us think so!

I'm also somewhat dubious about the "privileged" childhood because it sounds as though although you were in some ways they were in ways that made your dad look good to others outside the family.

Also if it was so privileged (and happy?) how come you developed a serious and damaging mental illness? You don't have to answer of course but to be honest i find it hard to believe that happened if you genuinely had a happy upbringing.

Also you don't earn badly, you earn more than many and in fact you're doing well to have a job at all at such a difficult time economically, nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed about there. And it depends on the type of job too, because earnings don't reflect the value of a job, unfortunately in our society some very valuable jobs pay very little.

Also never underestimate the value of being in a job you love that doesn't stress you out! Especially with your history. I've 2 degrees, I've done a wide variety of jobs from factory production line to middle management in civil service and all sorts in between. I also suffer from serious mental illness and sadly am unable to work at all at the moment. I'm a good bit older than you too.

Looking back the jobs I was happiest in and got along best with my colleagues were the nmw type jobs! Easy, stress free and we had a right laugh! Bit of stress in terms of having to watch my budget but nothing major. Whereas the highest paid jobs were a bloody nightmare and the last one was the final straw in where I am now with health/unemployability - though far from the sole cause its more complex than that as I'm sure you understand.

To me it seemed accusatory and dismissive

It wasn't though, it was purely trying to understand why you are where you are

But if I’m just paying 50% of bills surely it would be similar or less than what I pay now? I wouldn’t be out of pocket

If he's in a much larger place than you, possibly in a better thought of area then of course the outgoings are going to be significantly higher, the council tax alone could be much higher and with you moving in he'd lose single person discount which he might feel you have to compensate him for?

When I was married all money was pooled and we each had equal personal spending money available according to what was left after bills and agreed savings, sometimes I earned more, sometimes he did, sometimes I wasn't earning at all as I was a trailing spouse (he was army) but neither ever felt beholden to the other or embarrassed about being the lower earner.

While that worked at the time (with a slight wobble at the beginning - he was still spending as if he had no bills to set aside money for as he was used to what he got in his paypacket being his spending money as his bills were deducted at source - just how it works with the army for single soldiers living in barracks), with what happened with the split I would never again have only joint bank accounts (he emptied them days after split) BUT if I were in a long term relationship again, I would have a joint account for joint expenditure (rent/mortgage, council tax, utilities, groceries...) and keep a personal account for personal expenditure but still organise the finances so that we each had same spending money as I think that’s fair.

It worries me that you feel insecure etc like this already with him when at this point it should be easy and fun.

What's important isn't actually the figures involved, but if you both have a similar attitude to money, budgeting, what is and isn't essential spending and what's really important is that you see each other as equals and treat each other as such - and that goes for you as much as him!

If you defer to him or give in to him on ANYTHING just because he earns more that's not right and will not long term lead to a happy relationship.

I think how he would see your respective roles is important

Definitely

I feel slightly queasy about the ‘man as provider’ stance he has me too

Apart from finances, household chores can often be a source of contention too

Yep! And he may well think that if he’s the “provider” (in his eyes) you’re the “homemaker” even if you’re also working full time.

The 1st job I had after marrying was longer hours than my ex’s plus I had a commute (he was 5 mins walk from his work!), when I’d been unemployed the 1st several weeks of marriage it was only fair I did the bulk (but not all) of the household chores. When I started work at first he just carried on doing the little he had been and I foolishly let him! Within 2 weeks I was knackered and very pissed off! Cue 1st big row of marriage as he tried it on with trying to keep things as they were, but I stood my ground. In addition he tried “going crying to mummy” and my lovely ex mil also gave him a row! As did his dad! And they’d had a “traditional” marriage with her becoming a Sahm after 2nd child born (he’s youngest of 4) and his dad working so his mum did most (but again not all) of the childcare. He was arguing he did the same amount as his dad did and his parents promptly pointed out the difference was I was working! Reminded him that he knew from family stories etc that when his mum worked his parents shared the load equally and his dad did more then than he did after his mum stopped working. Poor bugger was “getting it from all sides” 😂 he came off that phone call apologetic and contrite and we sat and chatted and decided who’d do what, mainly based on preference, eg I was more of a cook than he was (he was a fussy bugger too - that’s a whole other thread!), so he preferred to wash up and clean the kitchen down (though he cooked sometimes and we’d reverse), he preferred and was a lot better at ironing than me (I don’t do it at all now hate it) so he did that job which included putting the ironed clothes away, I did the laundry, I dusted, he hoovered etc. Then things were a lot more equal, I wasn’t knackered and pissed off and he had more appreciation for what it took to keep a home clean and tidy and smoothly run (in his defence this was his first home as an adult as he’d been in barracks before so only had a room to deal with and he would leave that to rack and ruin until he would graft in a blind panic to prep for an inspection, which often included him having to do without a nights sleep which his fellow squaddies really took piss out of him for 😂)

Living together before marriage is a good idea as a way to get to know someone, you don’t really know them until you live with them. This is the reality behind the old saying that “the 1st year of marriage is the hardest” because you’re sort of rubbing off each other’s corners - everyone has minor annoying habits that their family excuse or don’t notice or even share! But more serious issues - like approaches to budgeting, division of labour - only really become apparent when you start living together.

BUT I would always advise not moving in together without both parties agreeing and being clear on what you want in the future.

Especially as a woman if you want to marry and have dc, and if - as is usually the case and is particularly true here - the woman is at a financial disadvantage.

And make sure your contraception is super sorted!

Too many stories on here too of women who vaguely thought he would propose ‘at some point’ even though they are living together and have dc and there’s no incentive for the man to do so, then he sods off with someone new leaving the woman and kids pretty much destitute! Very common with men in the type of job he’s in too!

Pay attention to what he actually does more than what he says

Absolutely!

Staying unmarried ensures he keeps the right to turf out OP and kids because OP and kids won't have the legal protection of marriage exactly!

but from his earlier comments about the importance of providing for a family I don't think that should be an issue still don’t assume he will play fair, actually discuss with him and meet agreements BEFORE having dc.

I don't think he would expect to be 'head of the family' - his mother is a matriarch so it's not like he doesn't respect women. this could lead him to go either way actually, respectful even deferential to women or resentful and distrustful and even misogynistic.

My mum was willing to give up her financial autonomy - she trusted my dad and submitted to him out of choice. It hasn't worked out badly for her - she was able to retire at 50 because of it

Be careful here - she may have appeared to be ok with how it all happened or she may have over time simply given in after many years of him controlling her.

It’s rare for women even of her generation (I’m thinking she’s not much older than me I’m 48?) to be totally happy with a lack of financial autonomy. Hell even my grandmothers wouldn’t have been happy with that! Don’t forget that your mother taking care of everything or most things at home ENABLED your father in his “high flying” career. He had the outward evidence of “his” success thanks to her efforts too.

What makes you think my boyfriend would do anything like what you mention? pretty much everything YOU have said about his attitude to money and relationships makes this a possibility.

and I might hoover for him once in a while does he ever do household chores like this at yours?

It’s good you’re both aware and mindful of your wariness in relationships

But your strong and even aggressive defence of both your father and your boyfriend whenever anyone is even slightly critical or posits the mere idea of their not being good men is very very worrying.

Slightly off topic but if you decide to rent out your place, please educate yourself on the responsibilities of being a landlord - personally I think it should be a licensed and protected profession having been a tenant for many years and at the mercy of incompetent “accidental” landlords who had no idea of their legal obligations and responsibilities and the costs involved. Yes tenants generally pay more in rent than the cost of the mortgage but as a landlord you are supposed to use that money not just as profit but to maintain the property and meet your legal obligations wrt things like gas safety checks, replacing boilers etc

You cover your mortgage when rented out. He covers his. That way it’s clear cut and you have no claim on his property if you spilt up. If you pay towards his mortgage you could have a claim in his house.

Bills can be shared 50/50 when living together

@Graphista

It’s very telling of a power imbalance in the relationship, which is a precursor to forms of abuse

This sums up my feelings which I put clumsily in my comment about garage flowers.

The point is he thinks he can throw money/RARE generosity at you to "bring you round"

It's very worrying you describe your mum as "terrible" rather than recognising in all likelihood she was a victim of financial abuse - which often goes hand in hand with other abuse.

To be honest your dad sounds very controlling, does your view of her come from him I wonder?

I'm from an abusive marriage and something my dad did and I'm ashamed I didn't realise until I was older that he drew us (the kids) into verbally abusing her too, "jokingly" rolling our eyes and treating her as if she was stupid, useless etc - she absolutely is not but he worked damn hard to try and make us think so!

I'm also somewhat dubious about the "privileged" childhood because it sounds as though although you were in some ways they were in ways that made your dad look good to others outside the family.

Also if it was so privileged (and happy?) how come you developed a serious and damaging mental illness? You don't have to answer of course but to be honest i find it hard to believe that happened if you genuinely had a happy upbringing.

Also you don't earn badly, you earn more than many and in fact you're doing well to have a job at all at such a difficult time economically, nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed about there. And it depends on the type of job too, because earnings don't reflect the value of a job, unfortunately in our society some very valuable jobs pay very little.

Also never underestimate the value of being in a job you love that doesn't stress you out! Especially with your history. I've 2 degrees, I've done a wide variety of jobs from factory production line to middle management in civil service and all sorts in between. I also suffer from serious mental illness and sadly am unable to work at all at the moment. I'm a good bit older than you too.

Looking back the jobs I was happiest in and got along best with my colleagues were the nmw type jobs! Easy, stress free and we had a right laugh! Bit of stress in terms of having to watch my budget but nothing major. Whereas the highest paid jobs were a bloody nightmare and the last one was the final straw in where I am now with health/unemployability - though far from the sole cause its more complex than that as I'm sure you understand.

I'm not sure my dad was financially abusive, they are just of a generation where the man dealt with the finances and that was accepted. Growing up, my mum learned nothing about managing money and was taught to defer to her husband. My dad never denied her money and she was happy to live frugally for a better future. I was absolutely never allowed to disrespect her and my dad has never spoken disparagingly of her in front of me.

I didn't have a happy upbringing, no. 'Privileged' yes, happy no. I'd rather not go into it on here.

I absolutely agree with you on the value and enjoyment of a job. I believe my job is actually very valuable to society as it involves improving people's wellbeing. And I do enjoy it and know the importance of this - I am happier earning less and feeling fulfilled in a job and like I am having a positive impact on someone's life as opposed to climbing the career ladder and hating every second.

I'm sorry to hear that you also suffer with mental illness. I hope you are receiving some help/support? The mental health system in this country is so badly underfunded that people like you and me just don't receive the necessary help and interventions. I really worry for the state of the nation's mental health once covid has died down.

@Graphista

When I was married all money was pooled and we each had equal personal spending money available according to what was left after bills and agreed savings, sometimes I earned more, sometimes he did, sometimes I wasn't earning at all as I was a trailing spouse (he was army) but neither ever felt beholden to the other or embarrassed about being the lower earner.

While that worked at the time (with a slight wobble at the beginning - he was still spending as if he had no bills to set aside money for as he was used to what he got in his paypacket being his spending money as his bills were deducted at source - just how it works with the army for single soldiers living in barracks), with what happened with the split I would never again have only joint bank accounts (he emptied them days after split) BUT if I were in a long term relationship again, I would have a joint account for joint expenditure (rent/mortgage, council tax, utilities, groceries...) and keep a personal account for personal expenditure but still organise the finances so that we each had same spending money as I think that’s fair.

It worries me that you feel insecure etc like this already with him when at this point it should be easy and fun.

What's important isn't actually the figures involved, but if you both have a similar attitude to money, budgeting, what is and isn't essential spending and what's really important is that you see each other as equals and treat each other as such - and that goes for you as much as him!

If you defer to him or give in to him on ANYTHING just because he earns more that's not right and will not long term lead to a happy relationship.

Thank you. The more I think about it, the more I think that my insecurity about this is to do with me and not him. I have many unresolved issues and being in a relationship seems to be bringing them to the fore. We have similar attitudes towards spending and budgeting and we do treat each other as equals. I need to remind myself of these things when I feel my anxiety/insecurity increasing.

@Graphista

It’s good you’re both aware and mindful of your wariness in relationships

But your strong and even aggressive defence of both your father and your boyfriend whenever anyone is even slightly critical or posits the mere idea of their not being good men is very very worrying.

Slightly off topic but if you decide to rent out your place, please educate yourself on the responsibilities of being a landlord - personally I think it should be a licensed and protected profession having been a tenant for many years and at the mercy of incompetent “accidental” landlords who had no idea of their legal obligations and responsibilities and the costs involved. Yes tenants generally pay more in rent than the cost of the mortgage but as a landlord you are supposed to use that money not just as profit but to maintain the property and meet your legal obligations wrt things like gas safety checks, replacing boilers etc

Don't get me wrong, my dad has many, many, flaws - I just don't think that here is the place to discuss them.

If I did let out my house I would be doing it properly and through an agency so all legal obligations would be fulfilled.

@Graphista

Staying unmarried ensures he keeps the right to turf out OP and kids because OP and kids won't have the legal protection of marriage exactly!

but from his earlier comments about the importance of providing for a family I don't think that should be an issue still don’t assume he will play fair, actually discuss with him and meet agreements BEFORE having dc.

I don't think he would expect to be 'head of the family' - his mother is a matriarch so it's not like he doesn't respect women. this could lead him to go either way actually, respectful even deferential to women or resentful and distrustful and even misogynistic.

My mum was willing to give up her financial autonomy - she trusted my dad and submitted to him out of choice. It hasn't worked out badly for her - she was able to retire at 50 because of it

Be careful here - she may have appeared to be ok with how it all happened or she may have over time simply given in after many years of him controlling her.

It’s rare for women even of her generation (I’m thinking she’s not much older than me I’m 48?) to be totally happy with a lack of financial autonomy. Hell even my grandmothers wouldn’t have been happy with that! Don’t forget that your mother taking care of everything or most things at home ENABLED your father in his “high flying” career. He had the outward evidence of “his” success thanks to her efforts too.

What makes you think my boyfriend would do anything like what you mention? pretty much everything YOU have said about his attitude to money and relationships makes this a possibility.

and I might hoover for him once in a while does he ever do household chores like this at yours?

I do agree that we should have all these finance discussions before embarking on a settled life together.

From what I've seen, he does respect women - he speaks very highly of female colleagues and has many female friends (when we first got together I actually thought this was a bit weird!)

My mum is a lot older than you - 62. She definitely supported my dad to do everything he did - without her there's no way he'd have been as successful.

My boyfriend doesn't really do household chores at mine - he washes up etc but he does do DIY, of which there is a lot! Tbh we generally manage our household chores ourselves, there is rarely any need for me to help him out or vice versa because we stay on top of them on a daily basis.

His mortgage is his mortgage.
You dont pay towards it

Everything else 50%
Gas, Electric, Internet, etc ....

@Graphista
👏

I am truly in awe of posters like you that are so full of enormous generosity to post in such detail an impart such wisdom.

has many female friends (when we first got together I actually thought this was a bit weird

It is a bit weird. I sincerely hope I'm wrong about this, but in my experience men are only real platonic friends with women who they aren't attracted to in any way (usually). The rest they keep around because one day they hope it will develop into a relationship or be handy for some casual sex in a dry patch. Women are better at keeping things platonic because they don't necessarily equate intimacy with attraction, having already developed friendships with other women at a younger age. Men in my experience can be friendly with women, and have an occasional chat when they're in a group of friends together, but when it comes to personal, direct interactions, they find it more difficult not to start to seeing that woman as a potential girlfriend or sex playmate.

I'm not sure that's relevant really (although it's an interesting discussion). There's no suggestion it applies to @flowersrain or her partner.

[quote billy1966]**@Graphista
👏

I am truly in awe of posters like you that are so full of enormous generosity to post in such detail an impart such wisdom.

[/quote]
Agree. @Graphista I really appreciate the time you have taken to contribute to this and share your thoughts

@EarthSight

has many female friends (when we first got together I actually thought this was a bit weird

It is a bit weird. I sincerely hope I'm wrong about this, but in my experience men are only real platonic friends with women who they aren't attracted to in any way (usually). The rest they keep around because one day they hope it will develop into a relationship or be handy for some casual sex in a dry patch. Women are better at keeping things platonic because they don't necessarily equate intimacy with attraction, having already developed friendships with other women at a younger age. Men in my experience can be friendly with women, and have an occasional chat when they're in a group of friends together, but when it comes to personal, direct interactions, they find it more difficult not to start to seeing that woman as a potential girlfriend or sex playmate.

That doesn't apply here. His female friends are married or in long term relationships with children

I've sent you a PM, @flowersrain1.

If you decide to move in together make it clear you will pay towards food, gas, electricity, water rates and council tax (essential bills) but not towards his mortgage, house insurance, or house maintenance or furniture. Don't fall into the trap of picking up items for home with shopping as that will mean you end up contributing to things that are his responsibility. You will get an income from your own house once let out so that should boost your income. Personally I would then pay half of essential bills to keep my independence.

Be aware you will have to inform your mortgage company that you are letting your home. They may charge you slightly more for remaining mortgage. You will have to do self assessment and pay additional NI contributions and additional income tax. If your home is not let out you may have periods when you will still have to pay council tax on your property even if you are not living there and possibly still standing charges on utilities. You will need to do this to.protect yourself from tenant from hell who could damage your property and run up debts against your postcode/address. Make sure you research contracts and explicitly insert any requirements you have into the lease. There are legal requirements you must confirm to such as protecting tenants bond and presenting tenants with documents about renting, gas/electricity certificates, smoke detectors, carbon monoxide detector and LL insurance. I am a landlord with 6 properties by the way. Make sure you get tenant to sign to say they have received these. Keep all house documents very safe. You will need to budget to carry out speedy repairs for tenant. I hope all goes ok. I would not have kids with him unless married.

I didn't have a happy upbringing, no. 'Privileged' yes, happy no. I'd rather not go into it on here

That is fair enough and understandable

But your dad doesn't need to have overtly disparaged or disrespected your mum in order to have created that dynamic. My dad was much less subtle but I've witnessed marriages where such a dynamic was achieved very subtly and insidiously, something to think about?

Thank you for your kind words re mental illness, I am unfortunately being massively let down there to the point I had to make a formal complaint to get ANY support at all after over a year of nothing from local mh services, housebound over 3 years. You're absolutely right services are woefully poor, partly as they're underfunded/under resourced and like you it worries me greatly the long term effect of the current crisis, I see it with people in my own circle who've previously escaped mh issues now struggling.

Ironically as it's mainly contamination ocd several who know me have pointed out the world has shifted in behaviour more to my (disordered) way of thinking, yet I am currently unable to benefit.

I totally understand that our anxieties can affect how we respond to "normal" life events and changes in relationships.

I think your dads flaws in terms of how he approached his relationship wrt finances is particularly pertinent here actually.

We learn our relationship style from our parents.

Mine was especially messed up and definitely affected how I approached things with my ex insofar as I was very determined not to end up like my mother, as a result, in certain ways I was too much like my dad which my ex had to point out to me and be clear he wouldn't be putting up with that - which was fair enough.

Very glad to hear you will be a responsible landlord

Ah you flatter me, your mum is only 14 years older than me so not that much, My mum while she is very controlled by my abusive father, my aunts (on both sides, my parents are both the eldests my aunts are very close to your mums age) would never tolerate not having financial autonomy and if anything both my grans who'd now be in their 90's were the ones who held the purse strings. In the case of my fathers mother it was necessary so that the family didn't end up destitute and on the streets as my grandfather like my father was also an abusive alcoholic, in their case it reached a point his boss gave her his wage packet direct for a period of time. Not ideal but necessary. My mother's parents no such issues but as my gran was the one who did most of the shopping and physical paying of the rent and rates as my grandfather was at work when the council offices were open. Gran worked shifts around his job to a degree.

@billy1966 Thank you. My own health issues mean I have far too much time on my hands and I'm frustrated at not being able to use my brain. I genuinely like helping others if I can, especially if it means more women don't end up like my mum. She's been married almost 50 years now and is completely broken. She is an intelligent, hard working, wise and compassionate woman herself and it's utterly heartbreaking how she's been held back and downtrodden by my dad.

@EarthSight I disagree, I have lots of platonic Male friends who've never approached me to make things sexual even when we've both been single, my brother also has roughly 50/50 Male and female platonic friends some of whom have been since childhood. It's entirely possible for men and women to be platonically friendly. Where I do get suspicious is where a man is NOT of this type and suddenly changes, especially over the age of 35

Op you are very welcome and I'm so glad you've taken my comments the way they're intended which is to hopefully help you enter the next stage of your relationship aware of potential issues that could make you more vulnerable and so that you take the necessary steps to protect yourself.

Sadly as pps have also said, there are too many women who ignore potential issues at this stage and only realise/become aware when they already have dc, no savings and are extremely vulnerable and trapped.

@caringcarer

If you decide to move in together make it clear you will pay towards food, gas, electricity, water rates and council tax (essential bills) but not towards his mortgage, house insurance, or house maintenance or furniture. Don't fall into the trap of picking up items for home with shopping as that will mean you end up contributing to things that are his responsibility. You will get an income from your own house once let out so that should boost your income. Personally I would then pay half of essential bills to keep my independence.

Be aware you will have to inform your mortgage company that you are letting your home. They may charge you slightly more for remaining mortgage. You will have to do self assessment and pay additional NI contributions and additional income tax. If your home is not let out you may have periods when you will still have to pay council tax on your property even if you are not living there and possibly still standing charges on utilities. You will need to do this to.protect yourself from tenant from hell who could damage your property and run up debts against your postcode/address. Make sure you research contracts and explicitly insert any requirements you have into the lease. There are legal requirements you must confirm to such as protecting tenants bond and presenting tenants with documents about renting, gas/electricity certificates, smoke detectors, carbon monoxide detector and LL insurance. I am a landlord with 6 properties by the way. Make sure you get tenant to sign to say they have received these. Keep all house documents very safe. You will need to budget to carry out speedy repairs for tenant. I hope all goes ok. I would not have kids with him unless married.

Thank you - the landlord advice is really helpful. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge

@Graphista

I didn't have a happy upbringing, no. 'Privileged' yes, happy no. I'd rather not go into it on here

That is fair enough and understandable

But your dad doesn't need to have overtly disparaged or disrespected your mum in order to have created that dynamic. My dad was much less subtle but I've witnessed marriages where such a dynamic was achieved very subtly and insidiously, something to think about?

Thank you for your kind words re mental illness, I am unfortunately being massively let down there to the point I had to make a formal complaint to get ANY support at all after over a year of nothing from local mh services, housebound over 3 years. You're absolutely right services are woefully poor, partly as they're underfunded/under resourced and like you it worries me greatly the long term effect of the current crisis, I see it with people in my own circle who've previously escaped mh issues now struggling.

Ironically as it's mainly contamination ocd several who know me have pointed out the world has shifted in behaviour more to my (disordered) way of thinking, yet I am currently unable to benefit.

I totally understand that our anxieties can affect how we respond to "normal" life events and changes in relationships.

I think your dads flaws in terms of how he approached his relationship wrt finances is particularly pertinent here actually.

We learn our relationship style from our parents.

Mine was especially messed up and definitely affected how I approached things with my ex insofar as I was very determined not to end up like my mother, as a result, in certain ways I was too much like my dad which my ex had to point out to me and be clear he wouldn't be putting up with that - which was fair enough.

Very glad to hear you will be a responsible landlord

Ah you flatter me, your mum is only 14 years older than me so not that much, My mum while she is very controlled by my abusive father, my aunts (on both sides, my parents are both the eldests my aunts are very close to your mums age) would never tolerate not having financial autonomy and if anything both my grans who'd now be in their 90's were the ones who held the purse strings. In the case of my fathers mother it was necessary so that the family didn't end up destitute and on the streets as my grandfather like my father was also an abusive alcoholic, in their case it reached a point his boss gave her his wage packet direct for a period of time. Not ideal but necessary. My mother's parents no such issues but as my gran was the one who did most of the shopping and physical paying of the rent and rates as my grandfather was at work when the council offices were open. Gran worked shifts around his job to a degree.

@billy1966 Thank you. My own health issues mean I have far too much time on my hands and I'm frustrated at not being able to use my brain. I genuinely like helping others if I can, especially if it means more women don't end up like my mum. She's been married almost 50 years now and is completely broken. She is an intelligent, hard working, wise and compassionate woman herself and it's utterly heartbreaking how she's been held back and downtrodden by my dad.

@EarthSight I disagree, I have lots of platonic Male friends who've never approached me to make things sexual even when we've both been single, my brother also has roughly 50/50 Male and female platonic friends some of whom have been since childhood. It's entirely possible for men and women to be platonically friendly. Where I do get suspicious is where a man is NOT of this type and suddenly changes, especially over the age of 35

Op you are very welcome and I'm so glad you've taken my comments the way they're intended which is to hopefully help you enter the next stage of your relationship aware of potential issues that could make you more vulnerable and so that you take the necessary steps to protect yourself.

Sadly as pps have also said, there are too many women who ignore potential issues at this stage and only realise/become aware when they already have dc, no savings and are extremely vulnerable and trapped.

Lots to think about re my parents' relationship dynamics and how they may have affected me in ways I hadn't considered - thank you. One thing I have noted is that my dad, whilst a good provider, was emotionally absent and that has definitely affected me. I noticed emotional absence in my boyfriend (classic repeating what we know) and this worried me. I raised this with him and he is working towards becoming more emotionally intelligent and I appreciate him listening to me and doing his best to change. Still, definitely more to think about re my dad's behaviour re finances and my mum's submission.

I'm so sorry you've had such a difficult time accessing help. People with contamination OCD have been on my mind a lot during the pandemic - probably going from being told to not wash their hands as much by their treatment teams to washing their hands to the tune of 'happy birthday' whenever they can by the government/society! (I know contamination OCD isn't all about washing hands, just an example). In the absence of help from your GP or mental health team, have you reached out to local organisations like Mind? They tend to have local centres where you can access help and support. I really hope you can access some support soon