Co-habiting but not married - finances

[flowersrain]

Just wondering people's thoughts on this.

My boyfriend and I don't yet live together but I'm wondering how it would be fair to split finances when we do. Eventually I will probably rent out my house (I have a very small mortgage) and move in with him as his house is bigger. Neither of us has children.

He is a very high earner - works in private equity - but has more expenses than me: a bigger mortgage etc. I am a pretty low earner and only earn around £26k. If I were to move in with him would it be fair to split bills 50-50? I see differing views about this. If we were married with children I think I would expect it to be more proportionate to our earnings but in this case would 50-50 still be fair? Even though I am a relatively low earner I don't think splitting the bills in this way would be unfair/leave me destitute? Or am I being a doormat?

At the moment he will occasionally treat me to lunch or dinner out (usually when he's in my bad books haha) but if we go for drinks or whatever we take it in turns to pay. We don't keep a tally of what we spend/whose turn it is to pay when we're out and about or if we're on holiday but it generally evens out eg I buy train tickets, he pays for lunch so it's pretty equal.

Thoughts?

Any thoughts?

Interesting view you have of your parents. You think highly of both your father's and bf's rather spendthrift ways, but fail to recognise that your father was only able to be such a spendthrift because your mother had no clue about the finances. It's possible this pattern could repeat itself if you marry and have kids, with your other half taking care of all the finances, initially supported by you because that's what a responsible father does. Then gradually eeks away at your ability to make financial decisions, so you go cap in hand every time you need a haircut etc.

You're sensible for taking things slowly, but do ask how he would ideally plan the future - getting married, putting you on the deeds, joint account you can both access, equal spending money even if you're not working etc.

He'll obviously pay way more tax than you, but his take home pay will still be over £5,000 a month.

I have real concerns that a man on 6 figures is only paying for you occasionally and then when it’s to say sorry. Going Dutch in the early days is fine but if you’re close to living together I would expect him to be a bit more generous when you’re both on such different salaries. I would add that unless he’s very junior in private equity £100k is a drop in the ocean. I would hazard a guess that wort his bonus he’s on substantially more than that,

Since I have been on mumsnet I have been shocked at the number of women, sometimes on maternity leave, who are left with mere pounds to themselves after they have paid bills, whilst their husband or partner has thousands each month to play around with.

Your boyfriends tightness when there is such an income disparity, makes me fear you could end up one of those stories. If the relationship is serious enough to be considering living together I don’t know why you are still going Dutch. And I don’t think it is funny that he treats you only “when he is in your bad books lol”. That is like chucking you £20 to curry favour.

Personally I would not (and did not) live with someone until I am pretty sure marriage is in the table. At that point I would expect (and did) more “pooling” of money. I earned significantly more than my DH when we first got together and for some years afterwards, I would not have seen him struggling whilst I was very comfortably off.

Good you are being honest about money at least with yourself.

I wouldn't worry about having the conversation until living together becomes a reality and then, like sensible grown-ups which it sounds like you are, thrash out the details, all the details, say you can pay £250 monthly towards bills sso you can still pay into a pension and have your own travel, personal costs and save a bit, put a limit on what YOU can afford, you have a smaller salary at the moment, hence why you have smaller outgoings, he can afford a 4 bed house, you can't.

Just be honest and be comfortable with the decision you both come to.

There is no right or wrong just what works for you.

My DP and I have just exchanged for our first property and we have agreed to split our bills, mortgage, food shopping in accordance with our gross income. So I will be paying 60% and him 40% - but I am due a very substantial payrise next year and we shall adjust the proportions then.

He is still left with considerably less after bills as he has more personal expenditure than I. Car, fuel, parking etc - I choose to commute so don’t need a car. (But WFH at the moment)

To make it fair, if there was any unexpected expenditure I would pay for this as I am left with more money net than he is.

But, I will save more which will pay for our wedding etc. We are very open with finances and I think it’s very important to be!

There’s no right or wrong way to do it, it’s what works for the both of you :)

"Florencex

Since I have been on mumsnet I have been shocked at the number of women, sometimes on maternity leave, who are left with mere pounds to themselves after they have paid bills, whilst their husband or partner has thousands each month to play around with."

I think this is what some of us are concerned about. Read through some of the posts on here about these situations and it is heartbreaking.

Pay attention to what he actually does more than what he says.

If you both decide on a takeaway, who pays? Cinema, other outings? If you were out and saw something that looked fun, would be be keen to do it?

If you've had arguments, are they about the same thing?
I think the main thing is pay attention to actions and what happens if you say no or he doesn't get his way about things.

You're totally sensible to want to know what living together would be like before you commit to marriage.

Finances are part of this but other things are too. Who does the cooking abd cleaning and maintenance at his house now? How does he imagine this would work if you moved in together?

The way he is now provides clues - slightly wary of you saying he treats you 'occasionally, when he's in your bad books'. What is he like when things don't go his way? Does he make you laugh? Does he see your career as important? Is he supportive of you wanting to do what you want to, earn what you want to?

All I see are fed flags. Sorry.

Ps please check out

1. how much your mortgage and other expenses will be if you rent out your place. Being a landlord is a responsibility and you need to take it seriously. If your lender gives yoy consent to let on your current mortgage they may charge you a fee and/or higher interest to do so.
2. check out your income tax liability for rental income. There is a threshold above which you will be liable to pay tax on your rental income and you can only offset certain expenses against that.

If he's living off a lower amount every month to put more into savings, shouldn't you be in a position to put aside a similar % of your earnings?

When I first moved in with dh we opened a joint account for joint expenses and as we both earned the same we paid in an equal amount. You could do this but you each pay in a different amount proportionate to your income. Eg you pay in 500 and he pays in 1000 or whatever suits your income and outgoings. Then the bills/groceries come out of this. You could also use it to pay for meals out together, holidays etc. Eventually this evolved until we both just paid our salaries direct into the joint account and paid an equal amount from it into our individual accounts for 'pocket money'.

I’m also interested to know what are the specific reasons you are taking things slowly? Who’s choice is that? Or are their other commitments involved! Or religious or cultural reasons?

DH and I have a shared account that all our bills come out of. Then we have our own accounts. The amount we pay in depends on how much we earn, so it's fair. If I earn more, I put in more. Designed so we each have roughly the same amount left over for personal spending at the end of each month.

Been doing this since before we got married and it works for us.

Sorry can’t give advice but as someone who earns less than you, I really agree with what a pp said:

Don’t be embarrassed about your earnings OP, it sounds like you are doing really well to me! Especially after all you have been through and also being able to own your own place too

Op you need to be careful here - I see more than a worry about how much each should contribute. Your parents and upbringing sounds quite dysfunctional and you are in danger of repeating the same mistakes your mother made. Your bf is tight with money and feels a woman’s place is at home with the kids - only ever being able to spend what he deems an appropriate allowance with no career or income of your own - it sounds like you may need some counselling to work out why your boyfriend essentially sounds like your father - your own mental illness must have been one of the consequences of his behaviour yet you sound very proud of him!?

He has a lot of respect for my dad who worked insanely hard as a lawyer (my mum was a nurse) to give myself and my brother a privileged childhood
Your mum is so lucky she only had to work as a nurse, I hope she appreciated how hard your dad worked for the family finances while she got to laze around.
You sound like a complete bellend OP.

@RantyAnty

OK. If you want marriage and children with him, don't move in.

Think about who is wanting you to move in and why. How does moving in benefit him? How does moving in benefit you?

Good you're asking about this now on here, giving yourself the time to think about things.

Second this. Do NOT move in if you're wanting marriage.

And if you do, before progressing the relationship have a serious conversation now about whether he wants marriage with you, and not just "settling down". The operative word here is you because he may want marriage "in time" but many men deliberately omit that it probably won't be with you. At 18 months he would know, in principle, whether you're the person who he would want to get married to.

Also this first year or so is meant to the most exciting period of a relationship. Fair enough if you don't want to rush things, but be aware that for men, this can equate to them feeling unsure about you or considering you to be just the "good for now girlfriend" until they find the woman they really get excited about and want to marry.

I agree with pp who said be proud of your earnings.
It can be very difficult to manage being in a relationship with someone with whom you have a huge disparity in income with.
IF you are feeling embarrassed about your comparative lack of money, you are in a prime position to be trodden down further. You need to feel accepted for the choices you have made which have brought you to the situation you are in now; a decent house and a decent salary. Do you enjoy your job?

Don’t be down on yourself because he earns more.

He has chosen to participate in an industry which from some perspectives has questionable value in terms of contribution to society, and probably debatable ethics.

That’s his choice, but don’t feel less because of your choices.

It’s very telling of a power imbalance in the relationship, which is a precursor to forms of abuse.

@Tiktaktoe

He has a lot of respect for my dad who worked insanely hard as a lawyer (my mum was a nurse) to give myself and my brother a privileged childhood Your mum is so lucky she only had to work as a nurse, I hope she appreciated how hard your dad worked for the family finances while she got to laze around. You sound like a complete bellend OP.

Oh her mother was "terrible".....while she was working as a nurse and kept in the dark about what her husband earned.🙄

The boyfriend really, really admires her abusive prick of a father who financially controlled his wife ........🤔🙄

This maybe harsh OP, but you sound as if you'll do just fine, ........admiring your father.....sounds like you are going to end up marrying a version of him......your boyfriend will likely have as much respect for you, as your father had for your nurse mother....but that sounds like that will be fine with you....🙄

Good luck.

I think suggestions of ‘why would you even live with someone before marriage anyway’ really weird, and can only imagine those posters are at least 80. Of COURSE living together gives you greater insight into whether a life together is something you want

Looking at modern divorce rates (of which the vast majority are people who lived together before marriage), I beg to differ.

Much more important is to be able to scrutinise a potential spouse without the emotional and other ties that living together brings, which can cloud judgement.

Men also gain all the benefits of marriage without the legal commitment to the woman in a cohabiting situation and therefore often don't propose. I can bet you anything, if OP moves in with this frugal, high earner man, he will NOT propose. Why would he put at risk losing a lot of the pennies and pounds he's gratuitously saved for himself on a potential divorce when he can selfishly have everything on a plate from the OP with no risk to himself and not have to worry about a court ensuring that all assets are fairly distributed to his wife and children? In the event of any split, I bet he would be wanting to stay in the house he's in, even if it becomes the family home for OP and the children. Staying unmarried ensures he keeps the right to turf out OP and kids because OP and kids won't have the legal protection of marriage.

This is why OP must decipher his intentions soon before spending any more relationship time on him. A lack of cohabitation will ensure she's not strung along during her important fertile years and can find someone else if they're not compatible. If he doesn't ultimately want marriage and to commit to her, he will break up with the OP because the selfish incentive to string her along is then gone.

Top paragraph is a quote from another poster which should be in bold!

The power balance will only worsen if she moves in to start living with him. It is also telling that it is her who is thinking about how the relationship could be progressed while the boyfriend seems quite passive about the whole relationship, seems just happy to have the sex and companionship without having to think of progressing the relationship.

OP please be careful as there's a lot of potential for you to get hurt here. You've already achieved a lot by overcoming anorexia, getting a job (your job is average - you're not a low earner) and being settled in your own home. Don't feel insecure and do trust your instincts. I think you're worth much more than this relationship. Find someone who is just as excited and ready as you to progress things.

@pincertoe

Op, I think you are getting a hard time on here and so is you bf.

Just because he is a high earner doesn't mean he should spend like a high earner. I new a heat teacher who was married to someone earning not that much more than nmw so she earned probably double his wage, but she spent as if she still earned a teacher salary and saved the rest. Her theory was she didn't want to not be able to afford their day to day life if she lost her job.

There are two ways of looking at this. If you were sharing all expenses including mortgage then proportional to wages is fair. As you won't be paying mortgage (and that needed to include buildings insurance, home improvements etc) then 50% of other bills doesn't seem to unfair.

Its all about lifestyle, if your bf was living the high flying life while you can't afford a new bra then things aren't fair and need splitting but if you are both enjoying life then its working.

Its perfectly sensible to talk these things through before hand but also talk about changing things if marriage and children come along. Also, of course living together is different than only seeing each other half the week! And its very sensible to try this before marriage.

Thank you I tend to agree with everything you are saying. Thank you for not making assumptions and understanding where I am coming from.

@TwilightSkies

At the moment he will occasionally treat me to lunch or dinner out (usually when he's in my bad books haha)

Ok this would turn me off straight away.
Be REALLY honest with yourself. Is he tight? People that are miserly with money are also usually miserly with their affections and in bed.
Is he open, loving, kind, generous (not just with money)? Does he make you laugh? Are you able to be yourself with him? Is he fun?

Yes to all your questions apart from being tight. He's not tight, he's careful. If he wasn't open, loving, generous, able to make me laugh etc then I wouldn't be with him

@BuffaloCauliflower

Hey OP. I think you’re getting a pretty hard time here, and I think suggestions of ‘why would you even live with someone before marriage anyway’ really weird, and can only imagine those posters are at least 80. Of COURSE living together gives you greater insight into whether a life together is something you want and that will work than just spending half the week at each other’s houses, very odd to suggest otherwise. The fact you have your own house you can keep and rent out also puts you in a FAR better position than the average woman considering moving in with her boyfriend.

My now DH and I moved in together in our mid 20s (though are now the same age as you) and also started on fairly unequal footing for similar reasons to what you’ve mentioned. I was actually at uni then after being ill my whole teens/early 20s and he was working full time. From the start we split everything proportionality into a shared joint account. We had a spreadsheet for all the bills including things like food and travel not just utilties, and split it all according to how much we each brought in each month. So at points it’s been split more like 20/80, at others 50/50 as after I left Uni we evened out for a while, before moving to just one account it all went in and out of just before we got engaged.

This was facilitated by a short period of illness/stress for me where I didn’t work for a couple of months. We were a team by that point and I didn’t want to be in the position of having to ask him for money. We were also planning for marriage and children, and having been on this site since uni I knew I was not prepared to be on maternity leave and have no access to funds! We share everything and now he earns double what I do (and I spend double what he does) were expecting our first child and I’m going part time, his career is on the up so I expect the next few years our ratios of income will vary even more wildly again. But we’ve built a trust and a team approach to finances that means that doesn’t worry me. That’s what you want to be aiming for.

The questions to be asking

• How would we split bills living together so that it would be fair in considering of our very different incomes?
• How much do we each bring in each month and what outgoings would we need to cover individually as well as together?
• What should we include in shared costs - groceries? Transport? Car payments?
• How do we think these things should be split if we marry and have children compared to now? (Getting a sense of how he sees you partnering financially longer term would be a big thing to get on the table, especially as you know he likes to be careful)
• you both own properties - you don’t want to be paying each other mortgages now, so don’t share that cost. But what would you do about the properties if you married?

Probably more things too but it’s early! I think you’re approaching this the right way, but definitely be aware and really listen to his answers. I wouldn’t go any further with a man who’d expect everything to be automatically always 50/50, even after marriage and children. Read enough posts here about women struggling while their husbands don’t and you’ll see why.

Thank you for this, I appreciate the insight into your relationship and how you have managed things, it sounds like you have a great set up. Congratulations on your pregnancy! I agree that it is probably too early to bring up many of those questions that you have raised - we aren't even really close to living together yet - but they are definitely things for me to consider and to think about what I'd be happy with.

To be honest, on moving in together I'd be happy to pay for half of bills (after all, if I'm using half the electricity, water etc why shouldn't I pay for half?) and for us to spend the rest of our income as we wish. That would need to change if we have children, but from his earlier comments about the importance of providing for a family I don't think that should be an issue.

We live together but no marriage yet, I have a son so that has an impact on how finances work.

He pays 1/3 of utilities/food and 1/2 of the council tax. If we go on holiday he pays 1/3, we tend to take it in turns on days out. Until he is a part owner in the property he won’t be paying anything towards it.

I earn a lot more than him, but as the bills aren’t high we agreed to the above after a few discussions, he wantes to contribute more, but I got my own way with this one.