Co-habiting but not married - finances

[flowersrain]

Just wondering people's thoughts on this.

My boyfriend and I don't yet live together but I'm wondering how it would be fair to split finances when we do. Eventually I will probably rent out my house (I have a very small mortgage) and move in with him as his house is bigger. Neither of us has children.

He is a very high earner - works in private equity - but has more expenses than me: a bigger mortgage etc. I am a pretty low earner and only earn around £26k. If I were to move in with him would it be fair to split bills 50-50? I see differing views about this. If we were married with children I think I would expect it to be more proportionate to our earnings but in this case would 50-50 still be fair? Even though I am a relatively low earner I don't think splitting the bills in this way would be unfair/leave me destitute? Or am I being a doormat?

At the moment he will occasionally treat me to lunch or dinner out (usually when he's in my bad books haha) but if we go for drinks or whatever we take it in turns to pay. We don't keep a tally of what we spend/whose turn it is to pay when we're out and about or if we're on holiday but it generally evens out eg I buy train tickets, he pays for lunch so it's pretty equal.

Thoughts?

Any thoughts?

@LizziesTwin

A long time ago when we first started dating my now husband earned about 5 times what I made, he is older than me & had a really well paid job. When I moved in I paid for more of the food shopping and cheaper meals out.

His career took off and he ended up earning crazy money, there’s no way I could ever have contributed 50/50 to our lifestyle without him not being able to enjoy what he earned. Does he ever buy you something randomly when you’re out together? I remember being bought beautiful handbags or coats which I never could have afforded on my own.

How lovely that your husband was able to treat you like that! My boyfriend buys expensive gifts at Christmas and birthdays but not randomly - gift giving is his weakest love language, he is more an acts of service/physical touch kind of guy. I buy myself handbags and coats though so it's not really an issue. Not being able to keep up with his lifestyle isn't a problem - he doesn't go to fancy restaurants or on expensive holidays so I am not out of pocket at all when we are together.

@WouldBeGood

I think he sounds a bit old fashioned with the “men should look after their family” stuff. Would he expect to be “head of the family”too?

I think how he would see your respective roles is important.

Is he often in your bad books and why, as regards the treating you then comment?

I think you’re really sensible to think about all this now.

I don't think he would expect to be 'head of the family' - his mother is a matriarch so it's not like he doesn't respect women.

The bad books stuff is only fresh in my mind because he annoyed me on Sunday, it doesn't actually happen often at all.

@TheBitchOfTheVicar

Your comment about the way your mum was not involved in financial information for herself and her family at all - and was 'terrible' - is slightly concerning. Yes, you had a privileged life in some ways growing up, but was this at the expense of your mother's financial autonomy? How would you feel if your DP in the future decided he would unilaterally make these decisions for your children and you were powerless to make any decisions about spending AT ALL?

My mum was willing to give up her financial autonomy - she trusted my dad and submitted to him out of choice. It hasn't worked out badly for her - she was able to retire at 50 because of it. I see it as 'terrible' because I am of a different generation and would want financial autonomy. What makes you think my boyfriend would do anything like what you mention?

@cptartapp

DH and I have been together thirty years and lived together first for ten. He has always outearned me, now sevenfold. From the off we paid the same proportion of our relative salaries into a joint account for bills and the rest was for us to spend or save as we wish. It's worked very well. If thinking of DC you need to discuss future childcare expectations and pensions too. It's usually the woman's that takes the hit. As the 'provider' how exactly does he think your roles will pan out. With my nurses hat on I would also gently say that women with a history of an eating disorder often have greater difficulties conceiving, so certainly don't rush into any decision but it's something to be aware of. I would absolutely live together first too. Good luck.

Thank you, I am very aware of the potential difficulties of conceiving - it is a big concern of mine and a protective factor in maintaining my recovery. I am not ready for children yet - I would like my recovery to be a bit more stable before we try but it is something that is definitely on my mind a lot.

@Welshgal85

DP and I have lived together for 5 years and have always split things 50/50 as that’s just what felt right for us. I still have my own bank accounts too as personally would never want to give up having my own money. For the majority of our relationship I have been the higher earner, now he’s just got a lovely new job and he will be the higher earner now.

We split all the food, mortgage, bills equally and did this when we were renting too. Also I would definitely recommend living together before getting married, you need to find out what someone is like to live with before you commit to spend the rest of your life with them surely?

Don’t be embarrassed about your earnings OP, it sounds like you are doing really well to me! Especially after all you have been through and also being able to own your own place too 😊

I would talk to him about all of this before you move in together and work out what works for you. Good luck!

Thank you, it's so interesting to hear other people's experiences - there definitely isn't a 'one size fits all' approach!

@VodselForDinner omg the toenails in the match carton! We spend enough time together for me to know he doesn't do anything like that and I think you are right that I would probably be getting a good deal - I mean I'd be quids in if renting out my house.

Although it’s difficult as I suspect you mix with lots of well-paid people, try to put your current salary aside, a nurse doesn’t earn as much as a junior banker or lawyer but no one would attack her for not earning enough. I don’t know (or need to know) what you do, but I assume you are paid the right ballpark figure for what you do, that is enough, it’s the right job & salary for you right now & your on-going recovery is more important than money. please be kind to yourself.

@frozendaisy

Good you are being honest about money at least with yourself.

I wouldn't worry about having the conversation until living together becomes a reality and then, like sensible grown-ups which it sounds like you are, thrash out the details, all the details, say you can pay £250 monthly towards bills sso you can still pay into a pension and have your own travel, personal costs and save a bit, put a limit on what YOU can afford, you have a smaller salary at the moment, hence why you have smaller outgoings, he can afford a 4 bed house, you can't.

Just be honest and be comfortable with the decision you both come to.

There is no right or wrong just what works for you.

I think you could be right - the reality of living together is quite far off really. I am getting a bit ahead of myself and anxious unnecessarily. It's good for me to consider what I'd be happy with though so all these replies are helpful.

@RantyAnty

"Florencex

Since I have been on mumsnet I have been shocked at the number of women, sometimes on maternity leave, who are left with mere pounds to themselves after they have paid bills, whilst their husband or partner has thousands each month to play around with."

I think this is what some of us are concerned about. Read through some of the posts on here about these situations and it is heartbreaking.

Pay attention to what he actually does more than what he says.

If you both decide on a takeaway, who pays? Cinema, other outings? If you were out and saw something that looked fun, would be be keen to do it?

If you've had arguments, are they about the same thing?
I think the main thing is pay attention to actions and what happens if you say no or he doesn't get his way about things.

With regards to takeaway/cinema, one of us will pay and the other will pay for something else later so it more or less evens out although he tends to pay for the more expensive items eg he buys the cinema tickets, I buy the drinks. He's never said anything like 'you owe me £3.50 for the coffee I bought you' or anything like that.

Arguments don't happen often but we have learned how to deal with them. He needs space when angry/upset so we have some time apart and then come together to talk things through calmly. We have had a couple of big ones but he has worked to change his behaviour since (as have I) so I can't really fault him on that.

@Palavah

You're totally sensible to want to know what living together would be like before you commit to marriage.

Finances are part of this but other things are too. Who does the cooking abd cleaning and maintenance at his house now? How does he imagine this would work if you moved in together?

The way he is now provides clues - slightly wary of you saying he treats you 'occasionally, when he's in your bad books'. What is he like when things don't go his way? Does he make you laugh? Does he see your career as important? Is he supportive of you wanting to do what you want to, earn what you want to?

He does all the cooking and cleaning at his house although occasionally we cook together and I might hoover for him once in a while. Like anyone he can be upset when things don't go his way but he can also be pretty easy-breezy - it depends. He does make me laugh and he sees my career as important. I had a job interview this week and he was interested and supportive. He knows the reasons why I have chosen my career and not gone chasing money and it doesn't seem to be a problem for him. Early on in the relationship I was worried that he would prefer another high flyer like him but he reassured me that that wasn't the case and he isn't disparaging of my career or aspirations or anything like that.

@flowersrain1 my partner was a very high earner when I met him. And I only earned around 26k myself. When we moved into together all our finances went into one pot. We became a team. Out of that pot both our separate bills were paid, then house bills paid, savings put away. We left ourselves an emergency budget incase something went wrong I.e car broke down etc and then we budgeted ‘play’ money for the family. Neither of our varying salaries were brought into it. It was one household, one team and one money pot. I believe that’s the way to do it

[quote HereWeAre20]@flowersrain1 my partner was a very high earner when I met him. And I only earned around 26k myself. When we moved into together all our finances went into one pot. We became a team. Out of that pot both our separate bills were paid, then house bills paid, savings put away. We left ourselves an emergency budget incase something went wrong I.e car broke down etc and then we budgeted ‘play’ money for the family. Neither of our varying salaries were brought into it. It was one household, one team and one money pot. I believe that’s the way to do it[/quote]
I think that's a great way to do it, but I wouldn't necessarily think it needs to be done straight away when a couple first moves in together.

@WouldBeGood

I’m also interested to know what are the specific reasons you are taking things slowly? Who’s choice is that? Or are their other commitments involved! Or religious or cultural reasons?

It's both our choices.

For me, a childhood trauma I experienced means that I have a deep seated fear of abandonment. I remember as a child saying to myself that I would never get close to anyone because then I would never be rejected/hurt/let down again. Part of my anorexia's purpose was to keep me in a child-like state - being sick meant that I was always looked after, didn't venture into adulthood and had no prospect of a relationship which I was absolutely fine with. I lived a controlled and ordered life dictated by my eating disorder and I was happy with that - I did not run the risk of getting into a relationship and getting hurt. Therapy and weight gain have helped me to see that if I continue living like that I will be safe from rejection and abandonment, but also alone. So I have taken a leap of faith with this relationship. It is my first serious one and my fears of abandonment/rejection are still very much present so I need time to adjust and adapt to what being in a relationship means.

Practically, I would like to be a bit further along in recovery than I am now before we move in together. I follow a plan to make sure I am eating what I need to and living on my own makes it easy to do this. Whilst I am able to give up control of food on the days when we see each other at the moment, that has certainly been a process and not an easy one - I actually lost weight at the beginning of our relationship as I tried and failed to eat intuitively on the days we saw each other and invariably ate too little. I would find it very difficult (impossible) to do 24/7 in a healthy way. I think I need to be at a healthy weight (I am just under atm) and eating more intuitively in a successful way before we live together full time, otherwise there is the danger that the perceived lack of control over food could cause me to go backwards.

For his part, he is fiercely independent and has lived alone for 11 years so this is also an adjustment for him. He also has fears of abandonment due to some childhood issues - his dad left when he was a baby and his mother was emotionally absent - so we are both working on our own journeys and becoming more secure before we make a proper commitment.

@Tiktaktoe

He has a lot of respect for my dad who worked insanely hard as a lawyer (my mum was a nurse) to give myself and my brother a privileged childhood Your mum is so lucky she only had to work as a nurse, I hope she appreciated how hard your dad worked for the family finances while she got to laze around. You sound like a complete bellend OP.

You are choosing to misinterpret me. Nowhere have I said that my mum didn't work hard or contribute to the family finances. The fact is, nurses don't earn as much as lawyers. Working insanely hard as a nurse wouldn't have provided us with the lifestyle we had.

OP,
Just mind yourself. Always remember you deserve the very love, support,kindness, respect in your relationship.
Once you feel heard, valued, respected, life will be good.

Wishing you well.

@billy1966

OP, Just mind yourself. Always remember you deserve the very love, support,kindness, respect in your relationship. Once you feel heard, valued, respected, life will be good.

Wishing you well.

Thank you. I do feel loved, supported, respected and that I am treated with kindness in my relationship. Posters on here seem to think my boyfriend is an ogre because he is careful with money but they don't know the good things he does like:

• all the DIY in my house
• makes an effort with my friends and family
• listens to me if I have a concern and works to change/meet me halfway
• is very complimentary and physically affectionate
• does his best to support me emotionally even though he finds it difficult
• makes me laugh
• encourages me in many ways eg recovery, career

of course no one is perfect and we have to work together to co-create the relationship we want. We both have fears/anxieties surrounding relationships which makes our situation more difficult than most but we are working to overcome these. I think that's all I can really ask for.

I'm all for paying equally but there seems something a bit off about a boyfriend expecting you to pay half of all expenses when you see each other now when he has such a lot of disposable income and you are on a low salary.

@HollowTalk

I'm all for paying equally but there seems something a bit off about a boyfriend expecting you to pay half of all expenses when you see each other now when he has such a lot of disposable income and you are on a low salary.

Being a high earner doesn't mean he has a lot of disposable income - he is highly taxed and has a big mortgage on his house and one on his flat which he rents out although that is very tax inefficient and he actually loses money by renting it out but can't sell it yet. I earn less but have a tiny mortgage.

@flowersrain I'm not choosing to misinterpret you. You are the one that wrote that your partner has great respect for your dad because he worked hard. You went on to say, your father was tighter than a ducks ass, but it was down to him that you had a nice life, uni paid for and help to get on the property ladder. No mention of your moms financial contribution, and out of curiosity did your father do 50/50 of child care and house work or was that all left to your mother? When another poster asked about your mum you stated that your mother was terrible, had no clue about financials and that she just submitted to your father! I am seriously gobsmacked that as a grown adult you don't see the harm in that? But maybe you are too used to living off your dad and now you have a new man that you'll be able to live off too. Hopefully you'll be as happy as you seem to think your mom was.

My SIL had to practically beg her boyfriend to move in with her and it did take years. He earned more than her but they went 50/50 on bills from the start at his suggestion as that was probably the only way she could get him to commit.

This meant that after a couple of years when bills had increased he had money to jet off on holiday with the lads and she didn't have a penny left at the end of the month. Her car needed work and took a lot of the savings she had, he benefited from her driving him everywhere but refused to pay anything toward the car because it wasn't his. He had savings and the fridge freezer died, he wouldn't pay anything toward it because it was her fridge freezer, she should replace it. He just ate out every night because he could afford to.

So there are pitfalls to moving into someone else's house and what you pay toward. But I am glad that Palava brought up paying income tax on your rental income if you rent your property out.

Dh has always out earned me. At the start it was a relatively small gap, our contributions have always been proportional to salary. Now I am a SAHM so Dh pays for everything, we have been married 21 years.

I think discussing finances before you move in is incredibly sensible. Hopefully you will agree on what you would both spend money on and how much. For example a holiday which is a how long is a piece of string question because some people will budget a very low amount proportional to their wages some will consider paying a lot more.

I have been on MN for 14 years and yes the number of married women who go off on maternity leave, massively reduce their salary whilst looking after a baby and yet plough through their savings because they have always contributed X amount is ridiculous. You see it all the time. Disparity in earnings can bring out the worst in people.

@Rainbowqueeen

I’d ask him what he thinks would be fair and listen very carefully to his answer. Then I’d decide whether it would be a good idea to move in together from there. Whatever the decision, it should be one that works for both of you to the same degree. If he suggests something that benefits him far more than you or makes it clear he is only thinking of himself then rethink your decision. A future with someone who doesn’t treat you as an equal or take your needs into consideration is not a future you want.

This

[quote Tiktaktoe]**@flowersrain* I'm not choosing to misinterpret* you. You are the one that wrote that your partner has great respect for your dad because he worked hard. You went on to say, your father was tighter than a ducks ass, but it was down to him that you had a nice life, uni paid for and help to get on the property ladder. No mention of your moms financial contribution, and out of curiosity did your father do 50/50 of child care and house work or was that all left to your mother? When another poster asked about your mum you stated that your mother was terrible, had no clue about financials and that she just submitted to your father! I am seriously gobsmacked that as a grown adult you don't see the harm in that? But maybe you are too used to living off your dad and now you have a new man that you'll be able to live off too. Hopefully you'll be as happy as you seem to think your mom was.[/quote]
I DO see the harm in that, and that is why I am asking the question about finances now, before we move in.

My dad did weekend childcare and washing/drying up after dinner, all the gardening and 'messy' jobs. Don't assume things you don't know about. You know very little about my life so please take your judgement elsewhere.

@OnTheBenchOfDoom

My SIL had to practically beg her boyfriend to move in with her and it did take years. He earned more than her but they went 50/50 on bills from the start at his suggestion as that was probably the only way she could get him to commit.

This meant that after a couple of years when bills had increased he had money to jet off on holiday with the lads and she didn't have a penny left at the end of the month. Her car needed work and took a lot of the savings she had, he benefited from her driving him everywhere but refused to pay anything toward the car because it wasn't his. He had savings and the fridge freezer died, he wouldn't pay anything toward it because it was her fridge freezer, she should replace it. He just ate out every night because he could afford to.

So there are pitfalls to moving into someone else's house and what you pay toward. But I am glad that Palava brought up paying income tax on your rental income if you rent your property out.

Dh has always out earned me. At the start it was a relatively small gap, our contributions have always been proportional to salary. Now I am a SAHM so Dh pays for everything, we have been married 21 years.

I think discussing finances before you move in is incredibly sensible. Hopefully you will agree on what you would both spend money on and how much. For example a holiday which is a how long is a piece of string question because some people will budget a very low amount proportional to their wages some will consider paying a lot more.

I have been on MN for 14 years and yes the number of married women who go off on maternity leave, massively reduce their salary whilst looking after a baby and yet plough through their savings because they have always contributed X amount is ridiculous. You see it all the time. Disparity in earnings can bring out the worst in people.

That SIL story is scary. I hope never to be in that position. He actually sounds borderline abusive?

No 'borderline' about it! This is what posters are trying to protect you from. Not because your DP sounds abusive (we don't know him!), but because we have all read these stories on mumsnet, and they are bloody scary.

@flowersrain I didn't assume, I asked a question. You seem convinced that your relationship is great, your partner isn't tight, he's careful. He's a high earner but not cash rich. He looks on your father and his traits as admiral, as I said I hope it all works out for you.