Had enough of making all the effort and am going to become a hermit

[stayanotherday]

Hi

I'm a single woman (47) with no family.

I've been in the same job for 17 years, soon to be made redundant. Worked on a very friendly team for years. Worked hard but we all got on and had a laugh. Have also built up what I thought was a circle of good friends over the last 2 - 10 years by joining groups and doing voluntary work because it's wrong to feel lonely and not make efforts. No issues with neighbours but they keep to themselves.

Since lockdown we've been wfh. The office is closing anyway. I've messaged everybody about every 10 - 14 days just to say Hi and check in. I've asked now and then if they'd like to meet up for a (socially distanced!) coffee and if they were free for a chat on the phone which was declined.

I get people have their own lives and I've tried to balance caring enough without constantly demanding or bothering them. I also get it's a hard situation for all of us and everybody's struggling. There's been no arguments or unkindness but they just haven't bothered in return. Thought we were close but am shocked to realise that's not true and the friendship ends at the door.

I left it to see if anybody would get in touch since about a fortnight ago. They haven't. I've decided not to get in touch again. I don't want to be a needy nuisance and can't do anymore. It's not as if I've got nothing else to do as I've been applying for jobs, working, studying, shopping and doing housework.

I'm in a lockdown area so am limited for now but to be honest I've had enough of trying to make friends, ending up making all the effort and can't do it anymore. I hate being completely isolated and that it's come to this but I've been let down too many times in the past and I'm not being a mug anymore. It's knocked the sauce out of me.

The next few months will be interesting. I can work anywhere in the UK and might have to move to follow the work. If that happens I won't look back or bother with people anymore. It will be so hard but at least I'll know where I stand. Society didn't want me and now I don't want its pain anymore. No wonder we're such a lonely society. I don't know why I posted really, just wanted to put it somewhere.

Sorry for the essay and thanks for reading.

Thanks Acorn and you're right. The feedback was fair and they're very encouraging. It's hard to know what they're looking for sometimes.

I love that film! Have you got a stapler you're very attached to?!

@stayanotherday

Thanks Acorn and you're right. The feedback was fair and they're very encouraging. It's hard to know what they're looking for sometimes.

I love that film! Have you got a stapler you're very attached to?!

Actually in my office, mine is the desk closest to the door and for various reasons, if anyone walking by from another section needs stationery, it’s always my desk they take it from if I’m not around!

So I’ve taken to keeping everything, even pens, in my pedestal, which has to be locked when I’m not in the room as it’s got confidential papers in it.
In the past me and my boss used to WFH different days, and she said people would look at my empty desk surface in dismay 😂

That is such a great film. The whole “flair” business in the restaurant just sums up working life.

Btw I thought the “jump to conclusions” mat was a great idea!

PS it is vet hard to know what they’re looking for. One of my friends ditched a professional qualification when she got some really ridiculous feedback. She found she fetched a very good salary without it.

Oh no I'm laughing myself silly at that, had a feeling you could relate to that but didn't know why! I'd be tempted to leave broken stationary, old birosand blunt pencils there for a laugh!

I love that film, my office was exactly like that with said printer. If it hadn't closed early due to Covid my colleague and I were looking forward to giving it the same treatment!

It does, all wanky corporate speak and politics! This is going to be your Christmas present isn't it? www.amazon.co.uk/Initech-Jump-Conclusions-Office-Space/dp/B07GL3CBBZ?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

It is. Glad things worked out for your friend. That's very discouraging. Hope you enjoyed your meal out and you were lucky before London goes into Tier 3 Wednesday.

I've almost finished the next one for the extra module due this week. Keeps me busy over a long and cold, dark lockdown winter.

I had no idea that mat was on sale! Brilliant!

How’s this piece of work going?

The other thing people always nick at work - hand cream.

Someone said to me “there must be something you miss about the office”. Nope. Nothing.

My keyboard practice was painful tonight, absolutely murdered Jingle Bell Rock, totally my worst performance so far!

You've got to get it lol! Not surprised you don't miss it. Taking pens and that is one thing but taking your personal bits and pieces isn't on.

Sounds a right laugh at yours, I'll bring the gin and you can teach me!

Okay thanks as it's only level 1 and 400 words on how to define identity. There's loads to write about that. I'll have it done and submitted tomorrow. Then it's back on to the French!

To be honest, i don't think it's anything wrong with what you're doing OP. Britain (London and Southern England in particular) is only of hardest places in the world to make genuine friendships because people are so superficially polite and most of the time don't tell you what they really think, and while they may be 'nice' and 'polite', generally are not 'warm' people at all.

I've almost always had deeper friendships with people from other countries even though I've lived in England my whole life. Basically every foreign person who lives in Britain says the same, that friendships are so much more authentic, warm and close in most other countries and it's much easier to make proper friends elsewhere. They always tell me I'm much more friendly and warm than the other British people they've met and are normally surprised that I've lived here my whole life.

I'm someone who loves authenticity and warmth (though not over-the-top friendly at all) and hates lots of small talk, so I don't naturally gel with the socially awkward side of British culture, and absolutely hate all the fakeness and lack of genuine warmth here! Perhaps you're the same, in that you're naturally a warm, authentic and caring person? What struck me was that you contacted these work "friends" every 10 days or so to check in on how they're doing during the pandemic. In most other countries this is totally normal and natural behaviour and people who know you would reciprocate in some way. For the typically awkward and distant British person though, they would be more preoccupied with how they should 'handle' you since you're showing genuine care for them that's over and above what's "normal", and some in the first place may have never liked you as much as they were faking!

My honest suggestion is to cultivate more friendships with people from other countries and/or live in friendlier places in the UK. Volunteering can also a good way to meet people on the same wavelength. Especially as you live on your own, it's completely normal to want meaningful and close friendships so I would ditch these disappointing "friends" and focus your attention on others worthy of your kind personality

[quote Freshon]@bluebird243 do you think people just forget? I find it astonishing too. I like to think I’d never neglect a friend in this situation, in fact in the past I’ve been very attentive when I’ve thought someone was lonely. I think people can be quite selfish sometimes and just don’t have the emotional understanding to consider how someone may be feeling. It’s rubbish.[/quote]
Just catching up with this thread (can I join please?) and this really resonated me (along with many other posts). I've always naturally been empathetic with others and i find this selfishness i see in other people so hurtful. I've never been able to understand how people can't empathise with others and imagine how they may be feeling even if they're not going through it themselves. I recently took the "highly sensitive person" test which really shone a light that people with strong empathetic traits are only a minority of the population and we literally experience the world differently. I genuinely feel that if there were more of us in prominent places in society, the world would be a kinder, more considerate place.

I agreed with @TiggerDatter about people feeling they 'owe' you or are beholden to you when you do something significant to help them and that weirdly affecting how they relate to you afterwards. It's something quite British in my experience (though there are probably other culture out there that are similar). I've always sensed it while living here, but didn't know how to articulate it. I'm also thinking of getting a dog!

Rybvita - thanks a lot for your brilliant comments and of course you can, you're very welcome! Hope you've got good people in your life who appreciate you.

That's very true and I think many see those of us who are empaths as somebody to help and take their problems too. Most of us don't mind that but get forgotten, until the next time. It gets tiring.

That's very interesting. There's a book called The Highly Sensitive Person. I found it too full of psychobabble to follow but relate to it as well. You've made a great point there and yes, the world would be kinder if everybody thought of others a bit more. People generally live in ther own little bubbles. It's out of sight out of mind too.

Never thought of it like that! There is a British reserve and I've noticed how its following America more with a 'look after yourself' society that's segregated. I agree with a comment I read which said "if you want to see the future of the UK look at America". Money and status are seen as more important. "To have company you have to look hard for it society".

You've described it brilliantly and yes, think I'm the same preferring quality over quantity. Social media's hyped it all up with it's popularity contests, competitiveness and FOMO.

It has been a wake up call and apparently as it's odd to consider colleagues you got on with, or thought you did friends. I'm wondering that and if I've been a nuisance and tolerated all this time. It's sad after working with people for many years. Yes they have their own lives and there's work to be done but it's a long time to spend with people and not have a care for each other.

Thanks for those great suggestions and I'm considering what to do about it after redundancy in June when hopefully restrictions have lifted! Glad you've found people abroad kind and friendly. I have sometimes too.

I agree with Tigger too and never thought of that. Fair enough not to take advantage of people but many are so self sufficient now and keep themselves to themselves. Good idea, you'd always have company, an excuse to go outside and apparently it's a good way to meet people. Go for it!

Well it's official, I have nobody now. Hope none of you are in the same boat. Thank goodness for this thread and thanks so much to all of you for keeping it going! Hope you're having a good week.

Concentrating on OU work will be my holiday project and up to the end of May, a month before the redundancy. Then it's onwards and upwards.

Hello stay, what happened? You can share, you have friends here.

Stay oh dear

You have us if you want a listening ear.

If you’re coming to hear me play keyboard, you’ll need the gin, I just started in September so it’s probably like listening to a little kid.

I read the Highly Sensitive Person. It’s one reason certain “friends” have been disillusioned with me in the past. I can’t do stuff like group days out or even just do too much in a day. The sensory overload is too much. One friend, before she had a baby, was the type who’d suggest museum, lunch, cinema, dinner, drinks.

Apart from the cost, it’s mental overload. I can’t do it without feeling like I’m going to have a breakdown!

Thanks a lot Midnight and so do you here. Please feel free to say whatever you like.

An long time online friend has gone quiet. They were the last person I was friends with. We were hoping to meet when things change. We became friendly on another site. They did go quiet at the time I started this thread but life got in the way. Fair enough. Over the last two days they've been chatting happily to others and all over the wall whilst ignoring me. People are more than entitled to have other friends but they've never done that. I asked if I'd upset them, they said no. Just think I've been ditched for a better option. The online world is transient but after two years that's too bad. It happens.

When people hardly bother, you live alone and wfh it's hard but eventually you get used to it. You stop relying on others for company. Even if they get back in touch I'll be polite but don't know how to relate to them or people generally tbh anymore. Think many others will find the same.

I don't want to be contrary but it's not the same anymore. You look at them with different eyes. I'm a fool for expecting too much maybe. Would hate to be a needy nuisance. Some of them have had a bit of a shock I've stopped bothering. They've not said as such but I can tell. I'm an in the background person and am fine with that but it's gone too far. I'm no great shakes but they'll miss me when I move away.

Thanks very much Acorn as always and please vent away as much as you need yourself. Will bring wine as well then, might as well go the whole hog. It's great you've got a fun hobby. We could play name that tune!

Well done for ploughing through that. It was too intellectual for me! Understand completely. It is an overload. Introverts need quiet places too if that's what you are. One or two things are manageable and cheaper!

Sorry stay

I’ve only had online friends in the sense that I’ve met them in real life and kept in touch like a pen friend. You develop a closeness, or think you do.

I don’t, for myself, find that online is a substitute for real life in getting to know someone.

I sometimes think the pace of technology and cultural change is linked here.

I didn’t get through the whole book, just the parts that were good for me.

I was a lot brainier back when I read it though!

Thanks a lot Acorn and hope you're okay.

You're right it isn't but I do value and keep in touch with any company offered. You don't always know what's going on their end and the full story.

Glad you were able to follow some, that's more than I did!

I find friendship a strange concept really. I think I'd fit in better with foreigners version of friendship as pp mentioned.

Somebody once said to me friends come into your life for a season, a reason or a lifetime. It made me realize that not all friendships were meant to last. I sometimes have phases where I have no spare energy for friends, so I'm not even contacting them or checking in at all never mind meeting up. I would, however, respond if they contacted me. Other times in my life I make a point of catching up with people and issuing invites.

I'm very choosey who I'm friends with now though. I've had a lot of friendships in the past which were based on what I could do for the other person. Whilst I'm happy to help friends out where it's needed (and if I can do so without harm to myself), I don't want these one-way friendships any more. I've also been friends with some lovely people who I've essentially dropped because what they wanted was company to do this or that, activities or places which I didn't really want to do/go or couldn't quite afford. When I stopped doing what other people wanted just because they wanted me to do it, I found lots of these people had no further interest in me.

I've been finding it difficult to strike a balance with friends over lockdown too, not really knowing what to say or whether to contact. It would be easy to either get into a huff about lack of contact and drop everyone, deciding they're disinterested, or run round trying to people-please everyone and keep friendships going by myself. But neither is very sensible I don't think.

So this time around I'm thinking what do I want to do? Who do I want to contact? When? How? And I'm just doing that, in a no-pressure kind of way. If I want to invite someone to meet up I will. If I want to send a quick text asking how things are going I'll do that too. And if I don't want to contact anybody for a month, so be it. It's working for me, I think because it's coming from a place of what's right for me, not what should I do or what do others expect or want. So I'm making the contacts that I want to make and not worrying about the outcome. If I get ignored or brushed off three times in a row (I mean with a gap between contact each time) I'm assuming the person doesn't want to be in contact with me and so I stop. Because it's not hard to send a quick text saying you're busy and will be in touch soon. If it turns out they were having a phase in their life of not wanting to contact anyone or being super-busy and they come back to me at a later date I won't hold it against them, as long as they're coming back to me because they want to know me and not getting in touch because they need a favour.

I think social media has destroyed conversation to a certain extent. I'll meet with someone but when asked what they've been up to I'm told "nothing much" when actually they've eg been on an amazing holiday, but they posted photos on social media last week so they assume everyone already knows. I don't want to see people's lives through the public announcement board that is social media, I want to actually speak with them about their lives! I'd rather spend an hour a week talking to whoever about whatever over a cuppa, than spend three hours daily scrolling through the news feed. As a consequence I never know what's happening with anyone because I missed the status update. But if some people prefer to focus on social media than spend time with others that's their choice. I prefer to prioritize people who want to spend time with me and I don't mind if that means I have less people (or no people, sometimes).

Hello folks! just checking in again.

I am making more of an effort to contact people but even with people I'm still fond of I would have such a silent phone. I try to avoid social media because it is so easy to fall into a doomscrolling vortex.

You are right about friendships in Britain, particularly the south, and this weird one-upmanship seems to still be a thing. Seems that some people don't grow out of high school stuff like thinking the cool kids have the best clothes and do more expensive things and stuff. I remember an in-law being critical of where we lived since we only rented 'half a house' - as if that is always a complete choice?

I have been doing weekly Zoom calls but even then they don't always happen if there isn't the take up. I do miss seeing people and going to places.

I'd rather go for quality over quantity. I've learnt to embrace the more offputting aspects of me since they aren't actually antisocial on a rational level and act as a quality filter. By antisocial my alternative dressing style, weird body language (I have AS) and strange vocabulary.

It is lonely but does anyone else get a strange thrill that people judge you but have NO IDEA who you are? People see my crazy hair, undercut and tattoos and will have no clue I have a PhD. Or see me in ditchmonster mode when in reality I've recently been on a webinar with UKAEA.

I don't think it is a bad thing to be reserved since there have been times when the following has happened:
Person: So what are you doing next weekend
me: Off to (festival night) It's gonna be awesome - got my outfits picked out and stuff. How about you?
Person: Off to the pub with my mates
me: Have fun!
Person (to someone else) Dammt (me) is really doing my head in! Talks about this (festival) all the time and how cool it is! Don't want to listen to that shit! Wish she'd shut up!

Amber - thanks a lot for your very interesting post. You're right to monitor and no longer want one sided friendships. It is strange, a balancing act and like doing a dance. People have different expectations too and it's hard to find people who want the same level of friendship.

That's a healthy attitude to have. It has been difficult to know what to do during lockdown as I don't know if I'm just being a nuisance so I've stopped and left it up to them. Fair enough if they have things going on but I'm no longer making all the effort and being a mug as I did with people in the past.

It has and people seem to want to have a mass one size fits all rather than spending time with people individually. You only get a snapshot of their lives, not the whole picture and social media is fast and furious. I agree because you know then if they genuinely want to spend time with you.

John - so nice to see you back! Fair play, you're doing more than your best and I admire your efforts. You really couldn't try harder despite getting little back. It's a crying shame and yes, does become harder to reach out the longer this goes on. We can't even go out and about much ourselves at the moment. I remember you saying you have Aspergers which brings its own challenges.

Exactly. I don't understand the status thing either which many live to. All superficial and what happens if circumstances change? No thanks to that pressure and to conform to be 'acceptable'. It's people that matter, kindness, understanding and maybe a shared interest.

Nothing wrong with being unconventional! Yes, I do that too and think it's funny. Positive scheming is what somebody called it. I look a bit like Amy from The Big Bang Theory and am very quiet but have a tendency to go to random and obscure places now and then.

Me to colleague: What did you do on the weekend?
Colleague: Went shopping. You?
Me: I just decided and went to Belfast.
The team: You're mad.
Me: I know!

I get you about the south - specifically Bedfordshire. It's close enough to London to suffer the vortex effect but lacks its own identity. I'm sure there are normal people there but many I did meet seemed to be a weird combination of high-school mentality and middle-aged mindset. I made 0 friends there that weren't from the university and I was there 4 years.

Bedfordshire is definitely a place that people come from, not go too.

It could have an identity but suffers from the wealth divide and that much of the countryside isn't accessible as its private land. It could be so much nicer there but I sure don't miss it much.

That's not an area I've been to or are familiar with but that's interesting. Shame you didn't, it wasn't you just sounds like people were of a certain mindset and they were already established but it did you a favour. A parochial area's limiting and boring. Also sounds like the people are happy with that and want to stay in their comfort zone.

Hi
Just a note to say I’m taking this thread off my watch list

I’ll be very honest as to why

Partly, I have realised that I’m moaning unfairly and the bulk of my issues at the moment are lockdown related.

I’m also not very comfortable with talk of “people from this area are crap”. Interestingly I do know a couple of couples (!) who moved from London to Bedfordshire and they’re quite happy with it. I only see it from a visitor perspective but I reckon it’s the same as anywhere else. Some people are nice, others aren’t. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Anyway, I hope you all have a good Christmas despite the madness! 🎄💐

AcornAutumn

Have a good Christmas - was nice to have you hang out here. This has been a very long year and I have no idea about how 2021 is going to pan out - hope that spring is better - no repeat of March 2020!

Also, it's not that people are crap in an area but some areas and places you just don't vibe with - it could be the right area for someone at a different life stage for instance.

It was nice talking to you Acorn and hope you have a good Christmas.

We can only hope for the best John and that next year is different. Yes, it's just personal preference and finding somewhere you fit. Some like certain areas, some don't like some prefer tea over coffee. Neither's bad.

You’re doing a stellar job of hosting the thread, @stayanotherday. I’ve lost two friends this year and I’m really sad about one especially.

Thanks a lot Sparkling, great to hear from you again. Hope you're well and I'm sorry to hear that. It is very sad and when things change if they want your friendship it might not be the same again.

Did you say your dad was ill and you were visiting him daily? If so, hope he's comfortable and you're looking after yourself.