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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I've wasted money and made myself obsessed.

177 replies

Marmalade414 · 14/10/2020 01:01

I've been a real idiot the last month. I'm currently wide awake as tonight was the night everything needed to stop.

I developed a strong intense crush a month ago. Was so sure the man felt the same. In my desperation I turned to a psychic who I've used before. I do trust her. She picked up he liked me and saw him opening up. She said he was recovering from a relationship though so was going to take a while to untangle things.

Then I discovered esty readers. How stupid am I! I've tried 8 this last two weeks. Absolutely every single one fed me different stuff.

I was so desperate to know. Then today I realised how stupid I've been. Nothings happened. He didn't approach me. . I left an honest review on a psychic page because she told me he'd give me his number. He didn't. She has since been private emailing me to say she will deal with my review publicly. Then she's tried to say he knows my address and just because I'm impatient doesn't mean it won't happen. Then she told me she didn't think my personality is nice like she read after all. Charming!!

Anyway I'm upset at my stupidity. But also I'm upset at how desperately obsessed I got over this man.

I went back to the psychic I trust tonight. She said a spirit is blocking him because he's too much like the men in my history. Apparently he's gone from being a sweet guy ready to open up but nervous. To abit of a player.

I'm so stupid.

OP posts:
monkeymonkey2010 · 15/10/2020 17:58

OP, why not watch some free youtube horoscope videos instead? They're general readings but i find them fantastic for tuning into the energies of things going in my life
www.youtube.com/channel/UCATTwJjQyajOhM4Pmusu2Pg/videos

Christmasfairy2020 · 15/10/2020 21:59

Not all psyches are bad. I was once very young and very drunk at a house party (15) I'm 30 now. I'd privately said out loud aged 14 my nan disliked me and never cared. She died when I was 3 and she was apparently all for my brother. This man I've never seen before grabbed my shoulder and said I have a message from your nan. She heard you and its lies she absolutely loved you and is so proud. He then left.

Christmasfairy2020 · 15/10/2020 22:00

So 1 year difference and a stranger whom was a psychic

draughtycatflap · 15/10/2020 22:49

@Christmasfairy2020

Not all psyches are bad. I was once very young and very drunk at a house party (15) I'm 30 now. I'd privately said out loud aged 14 my nan disliked me and never cared. She died when I was 3 and she was apparently all for my brother. This man I've never seen before grabbed my shoulder and said I have a message from your nan. She heard you and its lies she absolutely loved you and is so proud. He then left.
In a puff of smoke? Ooh spooky!
hoodathunkit · 16/10/2020 13:13

what has this to do with BACP registered counsellors in 2020? please?

apologies

I thought you would understand, the events I listed are CPD accredited so that UKCP, BACP members and other professionals, including police, social workers etc. gain Continuing Professional Development points for attending.

The events I posted about were well attended / sold out so there would have likely been many BACP accredited counsellors and therapists attending.

I only just read your response to my post and I did not realise that you wanted BACP specific examples.

There are loads of them that you can find easily yourself

Just google for “BACP” and:
shamanism
reiki
tantra
core process (past life regression therapy)

Just to make it easy for you, here’s a couple of examples of exactly what you asked for

Amanda (aka Mandy) Reid

Profile page on BACP website here
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20201016113054/www.bacp.co.uk/profile/32b85d6a-4d90-e711-80e8-3863bb349ac0/therapist" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20201016113054/www.bacp.co.uk/profile/32b85d6a-4d90-e711-80e8-3863bb349ac0/therapist

From her personal website:

Mandy Reid is a Reg.MBACP (Accred) counsellor/psychotherapist and a clinical supervisor. She works with a ‘here and now’ focus and supports her clients to compassionately bring healing to the source of their suffering. Mandy believes we are all creative beings, with the power to manifest our passions, life-purpose and to live as our authentic selves. Along side her therapy practice she offers supervision to counsellors /psychotherapists and those involved in the healing professions. Mandy has particular interests in meditations, sexuality, shamanism, trauma and spiritual philosophies, which inspire her working practise.

More recently Mandy organised shamanic healing retreats in South America with a gifted medicine woman, as well as working with numerous shamans and traditional healers. Her passion is in finding out how we can bridge and integrate the tradiona/ ancient healing techniques with western therapy for our modern society.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20201016113147/www.mandyreidcounselling.com/2/About-Mandy.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20201016113147/www.mandyreidcounselling.com/2/About-Mandy.html

This is also interesting

Denise Pia BACP accredited therapist
Her BACP profile page looks normal, although knowledgable readers will understand that psychosynthesis is one of a growing number of new age therapies so might be unsurprised to learn that this therapist also has a profile page on the College of Psychic Studies

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20201016112300/www.bacp.co.uk/profile/1d557aea-4d90-e711-80e8-3863bb351d40/therapist?location=St.%20Albans" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20201016112300/www.bacp.co.uk/profile/1d557aea-4d90-e711-80e8-3863bb351d40/therapist?location=St.%20Albans

here’s the College of Psychic Studies where the text says
"I studied for 3 years at the Psychosynthesis and Education Trust to complete a postgraduate diploma in psychosynthesis counselling. This is a transpersonal and holistic therapy with a connection between psychology and spirituality, which is the perfect combination for me. Psychosynthesis counselling looks forward as well as back into your life experiences helping you to understand the meaning of present patterns and situations that are no longer serving you.
With the help of loved ones in spirit, I combine my psychic abilities, mediumship and counselling.”

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20201016112106/www.collegeofpsychicstudies.co.uk/events/leader/id/50/denise-pia" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20201016112106/www.collegeofpsychicstudies.co.uk/events/leader/id/50/denise-pia.

I did find other pages claiming BACP accreditation but could not find them on the BACP register, Might be a glitch or it may be, as so often happens, that people lie about their accreditation

I have no time to look for more right now but there are loads of them. The UKCP is just as bad and possibly worse.

The public are very poorly protected in this respect, unfortunately

randomer · 16/10/2020 17:24

@hoodathunkit, What a nasty tone you adopt.
I have had counselling from 2 excellent therapists who were crystal clear about what they offered and their professional boundaries. There was never, ever any mention of so called alternative ideas. I also have a friend who is training and the course is very demanding.

I would suggest that the OP would be wise to choose carefully if she wishes to progrss and grow.

raddledoldmisanthropist · 16/10/2020 18:00

What a nasty tone you adopt.

Tone is hard to read in text but I really think you have misread the tone of that last post.

I have had counselling from 2 excellent therapists who were crystal clear about what they offered and their professional boundaries. There was never, ever any mention of so called alternative ideas. I also have a friend who is training and the course is very demanding.

I've had cause to have a few different councillors and MH professionals over the years and never encountered it either. I think Hooda overstates the likely prevalence of such behaviour but don't think she was saying that most councellors are anything other than professional. Anyone being able to treat vulnerable people with quackery is a concern.

I have encountered the odd person in my private life who I've felt totally unsuited to their counselling job and could imagine going down this road.

CupidStunt2020 · 16/10/2020 18:24

I have had counselling from 2 excellent therapists who were crystal clear about what they offered and their professional boundaries. There was never, ever any mention of so called alternative ideas

You've met 2? Oh well then you definitely can comment on the hundreds of thousands of people then.....Hmm

randomer · 16/10/2020 18:44

Just rude.

gingerwhinger0 · 16/10/2020 20:03

@CupidStunt2020

I have had counselling from 2 excellent therapists who were crystal clear about what they offered and their professional boundaries. There was never, ever any mention of so called alternative ideas

You've met 2? Oh well then you definitely can comment on the hundreds of thousands of people then.....Hmm

Where as hooodathunkit appears to have trawled the archives of BACP to find a couple of therapists out of thousands registered, to find a mention of spirituality. UKCP is concerned with psychotherapy, which for SOME may include the use of tarot cards and exploring Shamanism - both examples given involve exploring the unconscious, which is what psychotherapy does using different tools. There are clearly some very niche courses that will appeal to some clients, but they are not main stream offerings or there wouldn't be a need to be dredging the archives dating back to 2016 to find them.
I will reiterate what has already been said, any BACP / or UKCP counsellor will clearly outline their services and agree the outcomes with a client before starting a therapy. All registered therapists are bound by the guidelines of BACP or UKCP. Straying into 'aternative therapies' without permission or qualification will likely lead to a therapist being struck off if a client complains about them.
MarriedtoDaveGrohl · 16/10/2020 21:23

Ah people I think you are getting confused here. Shamanism aka people taking clients to South America is indeed a kind of therapy. Using a powerful hallucinogenic drug called ayahuasca. It's got nothing to do with bloody mediums (fake) or tarot (fake) or other fake woo woo crap.

There's talk about ayahuasca opening up your 'spiritual side' but really that's whatever you want you don't have to believe in anything. And there's some good evidence that hallucinogens work well for depression and as a therapy. I'd definitely give it a go.

In fact having had three sets of close to useless therapy by registered counsellors and met many of them with deeply dysfunctional personal lives I'd say that the ayahuasca is probably more effective.

She mentions meditation which while not for everyone does work.

As for the other one - well they all do that anyway, Freud and Jung both had some utterly implausible theories and some of the rubbish Ive heard therapists say beggars belief. It's quite possible to be bacp registered and really not have a clue. It fact it's quite common.

gingerwhinger0 · 16/10/2020 23:07

Plant medicine (Ayahuasca) is a small part of shamanism. Thats has been hijacked by westerners looking for a spiritual ‘experience’.

Shamanism, amongst other things, does involves exploring the unconscious processes through hallucinogens and other methods - journeying, dreams etc.
Freud and Jung where very much into dream symbolism, so it would seem a natural progression for some modern day psychotherapists to take an interest in other methods of accessing the unconscious, hence an interest in shamanism.
Again. Tarot, I imagine would be of interest to some psychotherapists, alongside similar divination tools, because of it’s symbolic imagery, not necessarily because of its fortune telling ability.
Mediumship, past life stuff - it’s all using the mind, so it’s dealing with the unconscious.
All separate methods of accessing the unconscious that maybe of interest to SOME psychotherapists I’m fully aware of the difference and I’m not mixing them up.
Maybe counselling isn’t for everyone and I’m sorry if you didn’t get the help you needed, but it’s unfair to try to dissuade someone from getting the help by stating your limited exposure to it as fact.

randomer · 17/10/2020 08:41

Freud and Jung both had some utterly implausible theories and some of the rubbish Ive heard therapists say beggars belief. It's quite possible to be bacp registered and really not have a clue. It fact it's quite common

Thats quite a lot you pack in there. Both Freud and Jung have interesting theories about the development of personality and the role of parent figures.To the modern eye, much of Freuds methodology is unpalatable . Jung and his ideas of Universal Consciouness are very interesting.

How do we leap from the assertion that these 2 have implausible theories ,to therapists talk rubbish and it common for clueless people to hide behind the BACP?

lunalulu · 17/10/2020 08:47

OP:

politely, how old are you?

Hormones do this to you aged around 38 plus.

hoodathunkit · 17/10/2020 18:21

What a nasty tone you adopt.

eh?

You asked me for specific examples and I provided them. I was very busy and took the time to answer your question.

I have had counselling from 2 excellent therapists who were crystal clear about what they offered and their professional boundaries. There was never, ever any mention of so called alternative ideas. I also have a friend who is training and the course is very demanding.

I am so pleased that you had a good experience. I have also had good experiences of counselling and therapy.

I have also had traumatising, horrific experiences.

I trained as a therapist myself and am very familiar with various models, methods and schools of psychotherapy. There are definitely good counsellors and therapists out there but there is also a lot of poor practice and damaging therapy on offer.

Just look what happened with the Derek Gale case. The man was running a psychotherapy cult and the UCKP did nothing until the HPC struck him off, in fact prominent UKCP psychotherapists were openly defending Gale even in the face of overwhelming evidence of his very serious abuses and wrongdoings.

I am not attempting to be rude or nasty, just stating facts.

I would suggest that the OP would be wise to choose carefully if she wishes to progrss and grow.

Always good advice about everything but especially important when choosing a counsellor or therapist.

hoodathunkit · 17/10/2020 19:22

Ah people I think you are getting confused here. Shamanism aka people taking clients to South America is indeed a kind of therapy. Using a powerful hallucinogenic drug called ayahuasca. It's got nothing to do with bloody mediums (fake) or tarot (fake) or other fake woo woo crap.

It's really not a kind of therapy. It is a form of spiritual practice that exists in some indigenous tribal communities. Shamans take decades to train and serve their communities in various ways.

Stalin had almost of the Russian shamans thrown out of helicopters opining that if they think they can fly let's see how they deal with this.

Shamanism and traditional spiritual practices in many indigenous communities is under threat from spiritual "seekers", ayahuasca tourism and ignorant westerners who believe that they can buy spiritual experiences in the same way that they buy trainers.

Vulnerable people needing therapy face all manner of risks from dangerous predators and angry locals when they embark on spiritual tourism.

There's talk about ayahuasca opening up your 'spiritual side' but really that's whatever you want you don't have to believe in anything. And there's some good evidence that hallucinogens work well for depression and as a therapy. I'd definitely give it a go.

Herein lies the problem. Privileged westerners feel very comfortable about appropriating and cherry picking the aspects of indigenous tribal spirituality that they like (usually mind altering drugs and dramatic costumes and rituals), while showing disinterest in and contempt for the communities whose ways they appropriate.

The rituals and ceremonies are one aspect of the lives of indigenous people and are intertwined with their lives and cultures.

A ceremony removed from its cultural and context is an empty ritual. These rituals are about community support and cohesion, they are ancestral ways.

Taking someone else's ritual and chery picking the aspects that appeal to you, wearing tribal costumes and using "sacred objects" removed from their cultural context is a kind of obscene pantomime.

In fact having had three sets of close to useless therapy by registered counsellors and met many of them with deeply dysfunctional personal lives I'd say that the ayahuasca is probably more effective.

I agree that some therapists and counsellors have dysfunctional personal lives. This is to be expected as therapists and counsellors are only human and deeply flawed like anyone else. No human being, whatever their profession is perfect. We all have our dysfunctional elements.

The active drug in Ayahuasca, DMT, undoubtably has many therapeutic elments as do many other psychoactive substances.

However, as most of these are illegal in many territories, including in the UK, people either take them with friends in a clandestine manner or go to Peru, Siberia, Mexico and various other territories to seek help from "shamans", many of whom do not have the interests of vulnerable people in mind.

Some of these "shamans" are indigenous healers whose tribes suffer when their leaders go away for months to administer drugs and ceremonies to tourists. The tribes may benefit financially although entrepreneurial middle men and women cream off most of the profits. Ayahuasca tourism impacts in various harmful ways upon tribal communities and can be a very high risk practice for naive seekers.

There is also a thriving underground network of accredited and non-accredited counsellors and psychotherapists whose "shamanism" businesses do include the administration of psychoactive drugs.

I know as I have met some of these people. I have even met psychiatrists who are ayahuasca tourists.

While many people offering therapeutic "shamanic journeying" (they seem to love the word "journey") may be well meaning, some of them are sexual predators, cult leaders and worse.

I am not for one moment denying the fact that some psychoactive substances can have profoundly therapeutic effects. The problem is that these same substances, when not adminstered by a knowledgable person, or when administered by an exploiter or predator can leave a vulnerable person profoundly damaged and even more vulnerable.

I think that in the UK we have a very bad situation in which the scarcity of quality mental health services leaves a significant percentage of the population who are the most vulnerable in a situation where they either self medicate with psychoactive drugs (with varying degrees of success and significant risks) or whey they turn to predatory plastic shamans for help.

hoodathunkit · 17/10/2020 19:31

Where as hooodathunkit appears to have trawled the archives of BACP to find a couple of therapists out of thousands registered, to find a mention of spirituality.

"trawled the archives"?

WTF?

These are 2 people who are offering supernatural services combined with counselling and therapy, there are loads of such people as your next statement indicates

UKCP is concerned with psychotherapy, which for SOME may include the use of tarot cards and exploring Shamanism - both examples given involve exploring the unconscious, which is what psychotherapy does using different tools.

You are complaining that I am drawing the attention of readers to the fact that their counsellor or therapist may involve supernatural elements in their practice and then opining that such supernatural practices are legitimate adjuncts to psychotherapy.

If you genuinely believe that tarot cards and shamanism are about exploring the unconscious rather than about fleecing the naive and vulnerable why are you so cross about me mentioning that so many counsellors and therapists use such methods?

Redcups64 · 17/10/2020 19:36

I think things like that are just rubbish, how would anyone know the future, if they really did don’t you think they would be chained up in labs somewhere being experimented on?

It’s not a waste of money though, as you’ve learned a lesson. Start living in reality, ask the guy out if his single, the worst thing he could say is no, then just say ok, maybe another time then, and then never ask again, simple.

MarriedtoDaveGrohl · 18/10/2020 02:27

@hoodathunkit I actually agree with your assessment of ayahuasca tourism. It's part of the reason I've not done it (that and of the hallucinogenics it's supposedly the most powerful. Not necessarily in a good way). Something about it just doesn't sit right with me. And I know that it can be unpleasant and vastly differs depending on where you go.

There are people offering ceremonies in the uk. There's supposedly the church ceremonies in Europe too. But It's all a bit of cultural appropriation/borrowing really, especially when the 'shamans' are white women (Always white women on these spiritual quests or cherry picking the bits of other cultures they 'relate to'). It would feel hypocritical to go to the jungle and do something like that when I don't have the underlying spiritual beliefs of the local people. There are decent places, but at the end of the day it is just more tourism. Shame because it really is interesting. But not when you are there with 20 loud Americans and watching the locals gritting their teeth and thinking of the money when they would rather just be left alone and not have to need to do it.

However there's tourists everywhere. I lived in Notting hill for years. You couldn't move for them. All looking for that fucking door. Or thinking portobello market was cool. Or taking photos of my dog while I was hungover trying to get the Sunday papers.

However there is growing evidence to support the use of drugs as a therapeutic tool. Although you dont have to go to South America and make a tit of yourself to access them.

EmeraldShamrock · 18/10/2020 02:40

It is a really bad idea using physics for direction.
If this guy was into you he'd have made it clear by now, abandoning his mates to chat to you. Forget him.
Can you see a life coach who'll help you set realistic goals.
Desperation makes you naive and causes poor choices people can read it a mile off.

gingerwhinger0 · 18/10/2020 11:24

Initial post.
Appears to be trying to debunk a profession that takes years of study and hard work, as an alternative therapy. Counselling isn't an alternative therapy.

'I would advise extreme caution in this respect as many BACP and UKCP accredited counsellors and therapists combine their counselling and therapy with tarot cards, astrology, "shamanism", past life regression, reiki etc'

Given that most people struggle to get help when they need it, how is your post helpful ? You have later gone on to mention that you have had successful therapy, it's a pity you didn't also mention that in your initial post.

*Where as hooodathunkit appears to have trawled the archives of BACP to find a couple of therapists out of thousands registered, to find a mention of spirituality.

"trawled the archives"?

WTF? *
Just had a quick look at the BACP website, there are 39327 therapists listed nationwide. 200 reference spirituality. That isn't even 1% of their cohort. Given that spirituality is quite a broad ranging topic, you've managed to find 1 that was offering more on her own personal website.

The courses you reference dates back to 2016. That would appear to me like a trawl through the archives.

Reference Derek Gale. What about Harold Shipman, are all doctors like him too, are you on the medical boards advising extreme caution there too?

The CPD courses you referenced from 2016 where perhaps an attempt to regulate practitioners offering these spiritual services, that have since been disbanded due Derek Gale ?

I don't have issue with a therapists taking an interest in an ancient indigenous religious practise and perhaps using it to develop their own practise. I have referenced tarot cards, because it not hard to see the parallels between Jung's work and the archetypes contained within them, I didn't state they where good for fortune telling. A client isn't obligated to see a therapist if their values aren't aligned.

Applying a broad brush approach and dismissing them all as wacky pseudo sciences is counter productive, as some people are obviously quite clearly interested in them. Being clear and transparent about them so people can make informed choices takes away a lot of the mystery and power from people that would seek to abuse, which IMO would be more helpful.

Lastly, I'm sorry that you have had bad experiences, but I feel your post would have been more helpful if you had just outlined the counselling process and a clients rights, instead of just trying to put the fear of god into someone that might already be in a vulnerable state and needing help.

gingerwhinger0 · 18/10/2020 11:26

Edit - that post it directed @hoodathunkit.

MarriedtoDaveGrohl · 18/10/2020 12:22

Someone in a vulnerable state and needing help should start with a GP and a diagnosis. NOT a counsellor who will sit there for year with them and not tell them that they have a clearly visible and medically treatable condition. Once you have the medical treatment if appropriate then you have the counselling.

I lost my career and my first flat thanks to a counsellor and undiagnosed, untreated depression. I had absolutely no idea what was happening. He did. My GP did when I finally hit the very very bottom (ironically couldn't afford counselling any more). But did he tell me? No. He watched me go down. And since then I've heard the very smug "we don't do diagnosis" and "we don't like to label" lines and want to throw up. Fuck your all and your 'dont do diagnosis' shit.

Don't promote yourselves as healers of the mind or whatever when you are standing in the way of people getting appropriate help. I don't care how you justify that stuff, and you will, you're potentially doing more harm than good.

That fucking therapist cost me everything- by the time I got to my GP I had to start again and I'm still not quite back where I was over 10 years later. If it wasn't for that GP (not suggested by the counsellor) I shudder to think what would have happened.

Get out of the way of people getting help. You are a second line, by no means effective therapy that is no further up the pecking order than a decent massage. You are not the fifth fucking emergency service and if some poor sod goes to you first you will block them from getting other help by implying that you are a MH expert and then completely ignoring any other aspects of MH that could be physical, or genetic. They think they are being 'treated' and you think that them being 'listened to' is enough. It's disingenuous and irresponsible at best.

So stop with your fucking BACP and dream therapy and tarot rubbish. You're not helping anyone and having therapy three times a week for years doesn't qualify you for anything.

MarriedtoDaveGrohl · 18/10/2020 12:23

And that post was direct at gingerwhinger in case it wasn't obvious.

gingerwhinger0 · 18/10/2020 13:43

@MarriedtoDaveGrohl.
I’m not entirely sure why you have directed an issue you had with a counsellor at me. Where have I said not to get medical help ?
I have stated from the offset that people should go to a BACP registered counsellor, that is bound by their ethical framework. Part of which means clearly outlining what they can and can’t do before beginning treatment.
Perhaps, if people where clear about the actual counselling process and a clients rights. hoodathunkit is saying is stating they have trained ? Instead of dismissing them all as cranks pedalling witch craft and to STAY AWAY. Then experiences like yours would be minimised.
Lastly, I don’t have foot in anybody’s camp - I’m not a counsellor, or an alternative therapist, but I have benefitted from counselling when I was in a vulnerable state and I found it much more beneficial than a 10 min slot with an overstretched GP doling out anti depressants, so I will be standing by my comment.