To leave France

[CroissantMuncher]

I have a DP (French) I love and a job that is deeply unfulfilling but pays well. We live in France and I can now apply for citizenship: it will take 2 years for that to be processed.

I am bilingual so there is no language issue. I just find myself missing living in the UK for lots of reasons. I feel like I'm done with france and what I would actually like to do is go back to the UK and retrain in psychology.

I'm 34. All my family and friends in the UK say I'm mad, France is so much better (whilst they still live in the UK....), that I'm throwing away my chance at an EU passport post Brexit, that I'm throwing away my relationship (he refuses to move).

I really dont know what to do. On the one hand settled life with DP in France. On the other hand change career and go back to UK. Part of me thinks I could regret leaving so close to getting citizenship. Another part of me thinks life is short.

Anyone been in a similar quandary or have any thoughts?

If I had the opportunity to leave the U.K. for life in Europe, I absolutely would - and friends have already done so. The people who say the U.K. is not a shit show now don’t seem to appreciate just how difficult life is going to get when we leave the EU... either that or they are (financially) insulated against the consequences. It would have been bad enough on its own but on the back of the pandemic and all its associated costs, I am horrified to be living in a country that is barrelling towards a dictatorship under martial law and a poverty ‘trap’ which now looks more like an insurmountable chasm. My only option would be to relocate to the US and I really have zero desire to swap one shit show for another. In your shoes I would hang tight for the next two years and reassess when the realities of the New divided kingdom have hit.

Another vote for sitting tight and doing some studying online. I had to pay international fees but I had a payment plan with the OU. If you start ASAP (like NOW!) then you might be eligible for some EU discounts (I am not in EU so don't know, that's just a guess)

Op, I think your bigger problem is your dp actually, not France per se. He seems to be absolutely oblivious to your needs and wishes, and does not seem to care how unhappy you have become. He is not flexible at all. Maybe you would be happier in Paris? (a train away from home) or the south? But he isn't even considering any move whatsoever. That is the real problem. You are stuck there, indefinitely if you stay with him.

Additionally if you would like to have children at some point, wasting years with the wrong man waiting for a citizenship in a country you don't even like seems bonkers to me! Worse still would be having a child with this man, because then you really will be 'locked in'.

I would do some serious thinking, and I would not be taking years to decide actually. You will not be young and carefree forever. If you are going to cut your losses, sooner rather than later would be better for many reasons.

In terms of my relationship, my DP is a very kind and generous person and we do love each other. However he has made it very clear to me that he doesnt plan on moving from his region, irrespective of whether I would like to.

With that in mind, I kind of feel like I might take the same approach to him.

What I might do is stay in france until I get my citizenship, and while I wait do an online course OR start retraining here. It doesnt cost much, and at the very least it will be extra knowledge and awareness of what studying psychology feels like.

I might also try and get on a place in a different region, so I can see whether maybe I've just got into a bit of a funk where I am (I'm in northern france).

Also once covid gets sorted (hopefully sometime soon?!) I will get myself over to the UK for 2 months (can easily work remotely) and give it a test run again just to make sure I'm not romanticising things in my head.

Does that sound like a good plan? Only thing is, if after all that i do come back to the UK and embark on the training, as @shivermetimbers77 points out it's a long road (with no guarantees) and I could end up being 45 by the time I'm done! Hope that's not too old to be starting out...

The value of the citizenship is only important if you wish to stay....

"If you start ASAP (like NOW!) then you might be eligible for some EU discounts (I am not in EU so don't know, that's just a guess)"

There aren't any as far as I know. When I studied from another EU country, I had to pay international fees. It was still cheaper than giving up my job and going to a brick uni.

@CroissantMuncher

I think you're right and it might be worth me sitting tight until I get this citizenship. It's also true that I have a lot of issues that are kind if being conflated. Career, place, relationship... They're all kind of being muddled into one right now. 😐

Does anybody know whether being British but living outside the UK definitely means we will need to pay international fees for online courses? 🤔

I think you do pay higher fees if resident outside the UK, yes. At least it's the case for the Open University. I'm currently doing their Psychology degree and really enjoying it.

I do think you are conflating a few things and I wonder if the relationship is at the heart of your feelings of wanting to escape to the UK. Maybe you just want to have a bit of space from your partner?

"Unless you are completely committed to staying in the one region of France for the rest of your life then is there a point of staying? "

Because if she gets citizenship she can live anywhere in the EU.

I can understand you missing UK since it’s your home! It’s rather selfish of your DP not to consider giving UK a try or some where else.

Once you train in the UK can you work in France if you wanted to? It sounds like the job is the problem really. If you think you would be happy to live in France in the new career is another option to start applying for citizenship while doing the UK studying online? I would see how much of the conversion you could do from over there.

Agree with PP above .DP seeming inflexible and oblivious to your wishes! At 34 you are young enough to retrain and start up a new career here.It would be much harder if you have DC.I always think its funny when families feel you have a better life abroad, but dont want to leave UK themselves!

@DimityandDeNimes

UK is a shit place to be right now

Compared to where?

France.

The world is full of people with psychology degrees, you ll need to take it far further and that will take a long time, you could be 40 before you actually get a job in what you want now.

You can get the degree on-line and then look at post grad study in the UK if thats the path you want to take.

An EU passport may be gold dust if things go badly wrong with the UK post brexit.

....and then there is the weather here :(

"I will get myself over to the UK for 2 months (can easily work remotely) and give it a test run again just to make sure I'm not romanticising things in my head."

Just check you don't need continuous residence for your citizenship.

@Palavah
I can imagine the indecision you must have felt. It's a tricky one because you know irrespective of what happens, you're inevitably going to gain and lose something. Brexit has really made this feeling more intense, as it feels much more like once the door swings shut, that's it. Whereas before we knew we could change our mind but it didn't have to be permanent.

"....and then there is the weather here sad"

But she's in northern France so probably plenty of rain there too.

Mmmmm. Here's my two cents' worth.

I have been in France for 25 years and feel more and more homesick as the years pass. If I didn't have children I would have left long ago.

I think you would be wise to apply for citizenship now, and certainly have nothing to lose in doing so while you decide on the best course of action for the longterm.

If it turns out to be too expensive to study online with a UK university, double check the requirements in France. You may not have to do the full three years of a BA here. Sometimes you can be admitted directly into the licence 3 if you have already obtained an equivalent level degree, in a not too dissimilar subject.

I would strongly advise against starting a family with your dp until you have made up your mind on this. Once there are children it becomes so much more complicated.

And just because you love your dp, it doesn't mean that you have to stay in the relationship if you no longer have the same life goals.

Good luck!

and then there is the weather here

OP said she’s in Northern France 😂

@CroissantMuncher

Thanks for your thoughts! I could still retrain in France but it would be a majorly drawn out process compared to the UK.

In the UK I could do a one year conversion, get practical work experience for a year or two and then try and get on the funded doctoral training.

In France I would have to go back and do a three year BA followed by a two year MA...

The rules on the doctorate have changed now - you'd need to be ordinarily resident in the UK for three years before applying.

We have split our time between mostly Germany (with short stints in other other northern EU countries) and UK for the past 30 years. We love the UK and choose to live here. There are some things about the way German people treat each other/talk to each other that we sometimes miss, but it works vice versa too. The UK is really not a shitshow, it's just fashionable to say it, or to be a UK hater. It's an exceptionally free country.

That sounds like a great plan, particularly the trial run in the UK before you move. I should think you will get a good idea of how it is likely to work in two months.

We live in a beautiful part of the UK, and we have a very active social life that offer something for everyone - this is something that I found was entirely missing in France. In our village it was largely based around the older men meeting up in the evenings - nothing else whatsoever at any point apart from a yearly event. Even in the larger towns it was unusually quiet. It was quite isolating. So I do understand why you are looking for more.

Loving someone might not be enough to spend an entire lifetime in a place you don't like op. Even if he is kind and generous. You might find as you get older it feels more like a life sentence than a choice.
You won't always be young and beautiful - and by the time you hit 55 your options will narrow significantly in all areas.

I wish you lots of luck whatever you decide to do

I think I agree with lots of you in that it would be a shame to give up on the citizenship thing when in fact it could be more of a job/location within France/DP issue.

So maybe the right thing to do is get started on fixing some of those aspects while I wait for citizenship, and see if those changes make a difference.

I do still really crave getting an Indian takeaway in front of trash TV and then going down the pub though 😂

I wouldn't in a million years tie myself to the UK right now if there were an alternative available.

If it doesn't qualify as a shit show now, it will soon.

I think your future self will be very grateful if you keep your options open and stick it out for the citizenship.

@Mollscroll

and then there is the weather here

OP said she’s in Northern France 😂

Thats big area, could be Loire or Calais.

Just trying to dig myself out of that one.......

Get citizenship first