To leave France

[CroissantMuncher]

I have a DP (French) I love and a job that is deeply unfulfilling but pays well. We live in France and I can now apply for citizenship: it will take 2 years for that to be processed.

I am bilingual so there is no language issue. I just find myself missing living in the UK for lots of reasons. I feel like I'm done with france and what I would actually like to do is go back to the UK and retrain in psychology.

I'm 34. All my family and friends in the UK say I'm mad, France is so much better (whilst they still live in the UK....), that I'm throwing away my chance at an EU passport post Brexit, that I'm throwing away my relationship (he refuses to move).

I really dont know what to do. On the one hand settled life with DP in France. On the other hand change career and go back to UK. Part of me thinks I could regret leaving so close to getting citizenship. Another part of me thinks life is short.

Anyone been in a similar quandary or have any thoughts?

Before Brexit I would have said go home, now I'm saying wait just those two years to get your citizenship then you have both options for the rest of your life.
I've just moved to the continent for that reason. I'll have to stay at least five years even if I fancy coming home or I'll never have the chance to go back.

@Wallywobbles Nope unfortunately I dont have a science or related degree! I already have an (unrelated) Masters which is why I'm kind of reluctant to go down the french BA route all over again. I would prefer a more "professionnalisant" structure like in the UK.

Realise I can't have it all though which is why the decision is so hard!

I dont want to look back in 20 years and think "if only I'd stuck it out an extra 2 years in france".

Equally though I dont want to sit around ruminating while my 30s go by...

Apply for French citizenship. That gives you two years delay in which to make your mind up.

Stay in France. You may have a rose tinted view of the UK. It is not the UK of 2015, for example.

Given the chance to apply for eu citizenship I would absolutely prioritise doing that. UK is a shit place to be right now. Look for a better job?

It seems to me you have 4 problems mixed into 1, your job, your friends, your dp and France itself.

Job wise, you may be linking your happiness too much into your job. You say it is unfullfilling but not that you hate it. If it is well paid then try to find fulfillment elsewhere in your life.

Friends can be hard in France but remember that Covid is putting the distance between you and your friends into sharp focus, this won't be forever.

Your DP, do you see this as being a forever relationship, if so marriage would make the citizenship much easier. Are you planning children? Do you want children with him? France is just a location, you could be saying that you want to move to Newcastle when he wants to stay in Devon. If your relationship is strong enough you will find compromise.

France, you say you are done with it, but don't really explain why other than the education. I think it is easy to look at the UK with rose coloured glasses and remember only the good. Where are you in France? It is a big country so maybe a different location could help. There is an enormous difference between city and country life for example.

You seem unhappy, but I'm not convinced that France vs UK is the real debate here.

" In some countries (probably France, but I can't say for certain), you study subject X and it is assumed you will do that for the rest of your life."

I live on the continent and yes, it's like that here and I think it is in France too. People DO work in different fields, but there is the expectation that you mention e.g. someone with a degree in Maths would be referred to as a mathematician for ever no matter their future job.

I would say the UK 2020 is much more upbeat and positive compared to 2015. So you might be pleasantly surprised tbh, you might find a more confident country in fact with some direction.

You can't really compare countries because one is full of your family and friends and is your home, and the other is not. Most people feel more comfortable in their home country, and will naturally feel more settled.

"In the UK I could do a one year conversion, get practical work experience for a year or two and then try and get on the funded doctoral training"

OP are you taking into account how difficult and competitive it is to get on to the funded doctoral courses, or even to get work experience for it? It's no walk in the park. This year there was an increase in places offered and only 18% of appliants got on. That's up from the 15 - 16% it has been the previous years 6.

When were you in the uk last, can you have an extended visit to look into study options rather than it being a pipe dream.
It's a bit boring of your DP to not consider moving, would he consider anywhere else? eg Canada (though I'm sure you will need good quals etc to get there)

@MadCatLady71
I was thinking that might be my best option (the online conversion). Only thing is with Brexit, despite being British are we going to be classified as "International" students now? Because that's £23k :-S

And yes I hear you, I'm always very torn and I think that's a natural thing to feel unless you REALLY hated your home country before emigrating or you REALLY hate your host country. As well as friends and family,, it's just stuff like a generally lighter atmosphere (I find), more flexibility in life progression (hard to explain but I guess this retraining thing is one example) and just a bit more of a dynamic social feel.
Equally there are things I really love about France too. It's hard! You're lucky you're in the South though. I am stuck in one région because it's my DPs home turf and he refuses to consider anywhere else..

In the UK I could do a one year conversion, get practical work experience for a year or two and then try and get on the funded doctoral training
This is correct but I'm not sure you've appreciated how competitive that process is. Getting work experience is very hard unless you've already have done related 3xoerurnce and with Covid, it's near impossible at the moment. As for the Doctorate programme, I think something like it 10% of applicants get in, a but less or more depending on your area and again you need that work experience at a certain level.

You can't be a licenced psychologist without the Doctorate.

It is far from straight forward at all, especially if you're not already working in a related field.

Living in the UK is miserable now. Chaotic leadership, and the level of division is worse than it has ever been and is only going to get worse.

I don't know what the opportunities are like for psychology in France, but here the demand for funded doctorates far outstrips demand.

By all means come back, but be realistic about what you're coming back to.

more flexibility in life progression (hard to explain but I guess this retraining thing is one example
Except that it is more and more a case on paper and less and less so in reality.

@dontdisturbmenow
I totally understand that its competitive but it's just as competitive in France, if not more so. It would be hard in either country.

Of course people can change careers in France. You could look into a congé fongecif and fo a new training course. I used to teach mature students on a librarianship course for instance.

In your shoes, I'd probably wait it out, as an EU passport may be very useful. Can you do a UK-based online course? A lot more study is going to be online now. Open university perhaps?

There is a strong chance that you won’t get to start retraining any time soon and can probably do it online anyway. Do not leave at this stage because you are so close and because Covid can mean you can retrain in other ways. See how you can manage it. As others have said, you wouldn’t know before two years are over.
Do you want to resettle in the U.K. and find someone new to have DC with? In that case, it is up to you totally.

Get the citizenship first and then you're free to move back to the UK. You can always return to France with your UK qualifications after they're recognised?

My mother is French, I speak French and I spent half my childhood there. I hated it. It was a fucking shit hole. I left home at 18 and started my Nurses Training at St Thomas's so I didn't have to go back there anymore. I was subjected to a constant stream of abuse and hostility just because I spoke with an English accent so I don't blame you for wanting to come home. Nasty people with nasty little minds.

Ah, i love a bit of a sweeping généralisation on a Saturday lunchtime.

[quote CroissantMuncher]@MadCatLady71
I was thinking that might be my best option (the online conversion). Only thing is with Brexit, despite being British are we going to be classified as "International" students now? Because that's £23k :-S

And yes I hear you, I'm always very torn and I think that's a natural thing to feel unless you REALLY hated your home country before emigrating or you REALLY hate your host country. As well as friends and family,, it's just stuff like a generally lighter atmosphere (I find), more flexibility in life progression (hard to explain but I guess this retraining thing is one example) and just a bit more of a dynamic social feel.
Equally there are things I really love about France too. It's hard! You're lucky you're in the South though. I am stuck in one région because it's my DPs home turf and he refuses to consider anywhere else..[/quote]
If you're a EU (well, non-EU following EU rules) resident with permanent resident, you should be getting home fee status in France? That's what I would think

I think you're right and it might be worth me sitting tight until I get this citizenship. It's also true that I have a lot of issues that are kind if being conflated. Career, place, relationship... They're all kind of being muddled into one right now. 😐

Does anybody know whether being British but living outside the UK definitely means we will need to pay international fees for online courses? 🤔

@MadCatEnthusiast

I meant in relation to UK fees not French fees!

It sounds as if your partner is a bit inflexible, does he know how unhappy you are?
Any generalisations about any country is a bit silly! The UK as a miserable chaotic hole and a shit show /France as a miserable, horrible place etc. Personal experiences differ! No country is perfect. Just think honestly about where you see yourself in a couple of years.